Social Major study finds Gender Affirming Care has no significant effect on suicide rate

[Islam Imamate]

I do think there's a certain subset who simply view trans people as an abomination, and not worthy of respect or courtesy. I don't think that's the prominent thought process of conservatives though.

I think its absolutely the dominant thought process of conservatives in the US. Now, do most right wingers feel that way? Probably not but most right wingers are not fanatically pro-life either and yet the pro-lifers are able to impose their agenda. That's the nature of political coalitions, a given faction within them need not be the majority or even close to it to exert influence. And the anti-trans sentiment is far, far more pervasive among conservatives than the maximalist pro-life position is. The thing is the minority who really hate trans will get virtually no pushback from the majority who only slightly dislike them or don't at all.

 

[Super_Nintendo]

you should be disgusted, they're sterilizing gay autistic children.

"In our sample, 26% of the adolescent SR [sex reassignment] applicants were diagnosed to be on the autism spectrum."
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4396787/

A Follow-Up Study of Boys With Gender Identity Disorder
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/33854450/

"(63.6%) were classified as biphilic/androphilic"


when left alone, puberty cured ~90% of the gender dysphoria cases.

"Of the 139 participants, 17 (12.2%) were classified as persisters and the remaining 122 (87.8%) were classified as desisters."

 

[terrapin]

The study is stating these people need to explore other issues along with their gender dysphoria. I honestly don't know enough about the root cause of gender euphoria. I don't know if all of them are molested or not. The study is simply stating treating gender dysphoria along with other mental health issues leads to better outcomes. This is not saying the study doesn't have weaknesses.

The study is based in Finland. I don't know enough about their medical reimbursements to the practitioners. I am under the assumption they have universal healthcare.

I don't know much about their system either, but there have been lots of problems in Europe where affirmative care means that the therapist is not allowed to question your identity as being trans at all and that's been a massive problem over there.

And also I do believe there is such a thing as a person being trans who wasn't abused as a kid just so you know... I only brought up those examples because comorbidities are generally not being fully explored and excluded before someone is labeled as trans officially by a medical expert or psychologist leading to devastating results down the line.

 

[Levi_]

From the actual study:

Furthermore, records for individual vaccinations (“individually confirmed” when
documented by vaccination centers or “individually reported” when self-documented) only exist
for 108 out of 217 total self-reported vaccinations,


"Confirmed by a prosecutor" means jack shit if he wasn't there to witness said vaccinations. There's only DOCUMENTATION for 108 of 217. Do the math, genius. (And it's laughable that's what you are caught up on, and not that you tried to claim in that thread they were essentially ALL documented and given at pharmacies as opposed to half of them LMAO).

I'm a fan of exposing dipshits that clog this forum with inanity, and you make it pretty easy.

I like the way you lie and don't link the study. I'm still going to tool you on this even if the mods remove my post to keep you from crying.

. Evidence for 130 vaccinations in a 9 month period was collected by the public prosecutor of Magdeburg, Germany, who opened an investigation of this case with the allegation of fraud, but criminal charges were not filed. 108 vaccinations are individually recorded and partly overlap with the total of 130 prosecutor-confirmed vaccinations (appendix 2 p 12).

https://www.thelancet.com/journals/laninf/article/PIIS1473-3099(24)00134-8/fulltext#%20

 

[Bojka]

they haven't halted the use. they've required them to be part of clinical trial as a condition for treatment. so it's safe enough for them to allow treatment, they just want to be able to track the results of the treatment.

This is the current state of things. This is a far cry from the narrative people, including children, were sold the last few years by those on the left.

"Longitudinal data collected and analyzed by public health authorities in Finland, Sweden, the Netherlands and England have concluded that the risk-benefit ratio of youth gender transition ranges from unknown to unfavorable."

Increasing Number Of European Nations Adopt A More Cautious Approach To Gender-Affirming Care Among Minors

For several years, Europe has been moving in a different direction from the U.S., as Europeans exercise greater restraint when treating children with gender dysphoria.

www.forbes.com

“I am surprised by the shortage of studies in this field. We found no randomized trials, and only 24 relevant observational studies,” he adds.

“Against the background of almost non-existent longterm data, we conclude that GnRHa treatment in children with gender dysphoria should be considered experimental treatment rather than standard procedure. This is to say that treatment should only be administered in the context of a clinical trial under informed consent”

Systematic review on outcomes of hormonal treatment in youths with gender dysphoria

In a Swedish systematic review published in Acta Paediatrica, researchers from Karolinska Institutet, University of Gothenburg, Umeå University, and the Swedish agency for health technology assessment and assessment of social services, mapped the current knowledge of hormonal treatment in youths

news.ki.se

 

[terrapin]

Yeah, and it depends what "rights".

Right to exist, be shown courtesy, etc.? I don't want any of that taken away from anyone, trans people included.

"Rights" for biologically born males to compete in women's sports? "Rights" of misguided or in some cases insane parents and "doctors" to fuck with kids body chemistries and cause irreparable harm? Those aren't "rights" in my book, so maybe that's where we have the disconnect.

And don't forget that when a trans person's rights compete or impede
on another person's rights, honest open dialogue must take place to sort out those issues. And there are lots of them.

Sports for women short lists for women, funding set aside for women, women's restrooms, women's changing rooms, women's shelters, women's prisons and women's doctors all have the right to exclude men who think they're women from those private spaces, benefits etc.

 

[terrapin]

This is the current state of things. This is a far cry from the narrative people, including children, were sold the last few years by those on the left.

"Longitudinal data collected and analyzed by public health authorities in Finland, Sweden, the Netherlands and England have concluded that the risk-benefit ratio of youth gender transition ranges from unknown to unfavorable."

Increasing Number Of European Nations Adopt A More Cautious Approach To Gender-Affirming Care Among Minors

For several years, Europe has been moving in a different direction from the U.S., as Europeans exercise greater restraint when treating children with gender dysphoria.

www.forbes.com

“I am surprised by the shortage of studies in this field. We found no randomized trials, and only 24 relevant observational studies,” he adds.

“Against the background of almost non-existent longterm data, we conclude that GnRHa treatment in children with gender dysphoria should be considered experimental treatment rather than standard procedure. This is to say that treatment should only be administered in the context of a clinical trial under informed consent”

Systematic review on outcomes of hormonal treatment in youths with gender dysphoria

In a Swedish systematic review published in Acta Paediatrica, researchers from Karolinska Institutet, University of Gothenburg, Umeå University, and the Swedish agency for health technology assessment and assessment of social services, mapped the current knowledge of hormonal treatment in youths

news.ki.se

There's going to be some heavy duty lawsuits because of this too because it has been experimental and it's harmed a whole bunch of people and it's been sold to the public as if it was some kind of settled science or something.

 

[kflo]

England's NHS halts puberty blockers for transgender youth amid research efforts

England's National Health Service has banned the use of puberty blockers for the treatment of gender dysphoria or gender incongruence in minors.

abcnews.go.com

Read the quote from the NHS spokesperson.

"We have concluded there isn't enough evidence to support safety and clinical effectiveness of puberty suppressing hormones to make the treatment routinely available..."

I err on the side of "If some experts aren't sure about the safety, (esp enough to where they are making large scale policy decisions like this), don't give the shit to kids". Crazy, I know.

Except they are giving it to kids. Stop pretending they aren’t. They are choosing to monitor it which is a good thing but they are not stopping it. They aren’t saying “don’t give this shit to kids”. They ARE still giving it to kids.

 

[mkess101]

I like the way you lie and don't link the study. I'm still going to tool you on this even if the mods remove my post to keep you from crying.

. Evidence for 130 vaccinations in a 9 month period was collected by the public prosecutor of Magdeburg, Germany, who opened an investigation of this case with the allegation of fraud, but criminal charges were not filed. 108 vaccinations are individually recorded and partly overlap with the total of 130 prosecutor-confirmed vaccinations (appendix 2 p 12).

https://www.thelancet.com/journals/laninf/article/PIIS1473-3099(24)00134-8/fulltext#%20

Hey shithead, I took the info from the study you posted in the other thread. This is the most massive self own ever LMAO. Here's the appendix 2 from above, holy shit:

https://www.thelancet.com/cms/10.1016/S1473-3099(24)00134-8/attachment/53f1ee11-c3e1-4988-bff2-5dc172d0f439/mmc2.pdf

From that appendix:

Thus, the generalizability of the described findings remains unclear. This report
is further limited by the fact that sampling for HIM only started after the 213th out of 217
vaccinations. Furthermore, records for individual vaccinations (“individually confirmed” when
documented by vaccination centers or “individually reported” when self-documented) only exist
for 108 out of 217 total self-reported vaccinations,
You come whining to me about this shit after I make fun of you and then don't even know how to read your own material LOL?


Here, read this again...one more time really slow and maybe this very simple line will sink in:

records for individual vaccinations (“individually confirmed” when
documented by vaccination centers or “individually reported” when self-documented) only exist
for 108 out of 217 total self-reported vaccinations,


Are you done making yourself look stupid, or is it some sort of addiction for you to embarrass yourself? Because I don't want to enable some sort of bizarre masochism thing you've got going on...

 

[Levi_]

Hey shithead, I took the info from the study you posted in the other thread. This is the most massive self own ever LMAO. Here's the appendix 2 from above, holy shit:

https://www.thelancet.com/cms/10.1016/S1473-3099(24)00134-8/attachment/53f1ee11-c3e1-4988-bff2-5dc172d0f439/mmc2.pdf

From that appendix:

Thus, the generalizability of the described findings remains unclear. This report
is further limited by the fact that sampling for HIM only started after the 213th out of 217
vaccinations. Furthermore, records for individual vaccinations (“individually confirmed” when
documented by vaccination centers or “individually reported” when self-documented) only exist
for 108 out of 217 total self-reported vaccinations,
You come whining to me about this shit after I make fun of you and then don't even know how to read your own material LOL?


Here, read this again...one more time really slow and maybe this very simple line will sink in:

records for individual vaccinations (“individually confirmed” when
documented by vaccination centers or “individually reported” when self-documented) only exist
for 108 out of 217 total self-reported vaccinations,


Are you done making yourself look stupid, or is it some sort of addiction for you to embarrass yourself? Because I don't want to enable some sort of bizarre masochism thing you've got going on...

I think you don't know how to read studies is what I think. But I have to consider the source. There are about 100 articles on the internet which say exactly how many it is. I could load up so very many.

You look stupid without even trying.

 

[mkess101]

Except they are giving it to kids. Stop pretending they aren’t. They are choosing to monitor it which is a good thing but they are not stopping it. They aren’t saying “don’t give this shit to kids”. They ARE still giving it to kids.

I literally just quoted what they said. And gave my personal view based on the words of an organization that are experts in the field. ABC News used the word "halting", so I did. You can be upset with them if you like, I don't deem them some sort of anti-trans, right wing hatchet group but if you do...so be it. Anyway, the point I'm making is that the NHS is outright saying they can't vouch for the safety and effectiveness so recommended it not being routinely available. If experts tell me there's enough evidence that shows it's safe and effective, to ME that says kids shouldn't be getting it at all. The fact that others in the field want to ignore some experts and give it to some kids doesn't mean I have to side with the experts you like that think it's okay.

 

[kflo]

And don't forget that when a trans person's rights compete or impede
on another person's rights, honest open dialogue must take place to sort out those issues. And there are lots of them.

Sports for women short lists for women, funding set aside for women, women's restrooms, women's changing rooms, women's shelters, women's prisons and women's doctors all have the right to exclude men who think they're women from those private spaces, benefits etc.

Cup check at the door….

 

[The_Renaissance]

Why do you think that is? Do you guys know kids who might be potentially using blockers and their parents discussed them with you?

Considering how few kids take blockers and how personal a decision it is, I'm curious how the topic came up with half your friends and family. I've discussed this issue exactly zero times with my family and I have a trans nephew.

Maybe that isn't a fair question. My family has never discussed this kind of issue or pretty much anything in the news, maybe yours is more politically active.

The point behind the question is that in the media, the issue is being framed almost exclusively by the right. Whatever doubts your family has almost certainly comes from conservative media, and they've been 100% against it since the beginning.

I sent you a video a while back about a story that ran wild with conservatives and managed to convince liberals as well. Turns out it was all a lie, but that fact reached a tiny fraction of the original audience. Anti-trans legislation was created on the back of that fake story.

I'm on record having doubts or outright disagreeing with certain trans issues, like competing in sports or sharing bathrooms. I think those issues should be discussed but compromise from the norm has to be handled carefully.

I am less open about interfering with medical procedures and deciding on behalf of doctors and parents. The vast majority of people have been educated on the subject by people who desperately want it to go away.

Ask yourself why you think blockers are dangerous. They've been used for decades, the risks are known and can be managed. Look into the risks and consequences in cold and flu medications for kids, those blow blockers out of the water (they actually kill people). Why aren't parents screaming to ban those?

Probably because they don't want their son in an ideal world to chop off his cock and regret it. The vast majority of these people are mentally unwell and are pursuing extreme ways to try and "feel better " . It's cutting. But cutting was always rightly derided as being a mental problem. This is being encouraged.


But I do agree with some of your points and personal experience.

 

[mkess101]

I think you don't know how to read studies is what I think. But I have to consider the source. There are about 100 articles on the internet which say exactly how many it is. I could load up so very many.

You look stupid without even trying.

There's a literal quote that says there's only documentation for 108 of 217. This isn't ambiguous, I copy pasted it from your own study. You can load up however many articles you want, the STUDY itself gives these specific numbers as to how many are documented. How exactly is this lost on you LMAO?

 

[The_Renaissance]

Cup check at the door….

Are you trans?

Yes.

Do you have a functional cock?

Yes


No entry sorry. Leave your firearm outside the venue please.

 

[Levi_]

There's a literal quote that says there's only documentation for 108 of 217. This isn't ambiguous, I copy pasted it from your own study. You can load up however many articles you want, the STUDY itself gives these specific numbers as to how many are documented. How exactly is this lost on you LMAO?

As it said, THE LAW that was going to charge him and found evidence of 130. Your pee brain can't seem to get that. Hard to differentiate between the two for you huh? Leave the booze and hookers alone for a while and your mind could clear and not be a total moron.

Pasted especially for your pee brain.

Evidence for 130 vaccinations in a 9 month period was collected by the public prosecutor of Magdeburg, Germany.

 

[The_Renaissance]

There's going to be some heavy duty lawsuits because of this too because it has been experimental and it's harmed a whole bunch of people and it's been sold to the public as if it was some kind of settled science or something.

Exactly the words Douglas Murray used to perfect effect. This entire movement ends in an avalanche of lawsuits from troubled teens who sold snake oil as a cure for their mental problems. Especially considering there's a gigantic number of "trans identifiers" who also identify as being autistic. Then you're talking preying on disability

 

[mkess101]

As it said, THE LAW that was going to charge him and found evidence of 130. Your pee brain can't seem to get that. Hard to differentiate between the two for you huh? Leave the booze and hookers alone for a while and your mind could clear and not be a total moron.

Pasted especially for your pee brain.

Evidence for 130 vaccinations in a 9 month period was collected by the public prosecutor of Magdeburg, Germany.

No you window licking imbecile, you quite obviously cannot read. This "evidence"...read this part slowly...includes "self reporting", which I pointed out earlier. Again...very slowly...there's only DOCUMENTATION for 108 of 217. Should I explain what "documentation" means to you? A prosecutor isn't a scientist conducting a study, so "evidence" is vague and gives no indication of what specifically that includes. When speaking of actual scientific studies, there must be DOCUMENTATION for each and every instance of when he claimed to have received a vaccine. That is why they felt the need for that appendix! To point out specifically that they could only DOCUMENT 108 of 217.

Holy fucking shit you are dense. Like...a crazy mix of stupid and stubborn that seems to enjoy making yourself look like a clown time and again.

 

[Levi_]

No you window licking imbecile, you quite obviously cannot read. This "evidence"...read this part slowly...includes "self reporting", which I pointed out earlier. Again...very slowly...there's only DOCUMENTATION for 108 of 217. Should I explain what "documentation" means to you? A prosecutor isn't a scientist conducting a study, so "evidence" is vague and gives no indication of what specifically that includes. When speaking of actual scientific studies, there must be DOCUMENTATION for each and every instance of when he claimed to have received a vaccine. That is why they felt the need for that appendix! To point out specifically that they could only DOCUMENT 108 of 217.

Holy fucking shit you are dense. Like...a crazy mix of stupid and stubborn that seems to enjoy making yourself look like a clown time and again.

Still can't understand what you read, huh? Still lying?

 

[kflo]

Are you trans?

Yes.

Do you have a functional cock?

Yes


No entry sorry. Leave your firearm outside the venue please.

Airtight process.