Social Can homeless people be fined for sleeping outside? A rural Oregon city asks the US Supreme Court

ferrisjso said:
This is called loitering. Its not the same thing as homelessness. But its a similar dynamic and anti homeless restrictions and anti loitering restrictions are often linked. Someone is hanging around without a place to be. The fact person has a home doesn't change that it raises suspicion makes people uncomftorable etc etc. People being unable to loiter creates an environment people don't feel safe and secure in. The very thing that people raging against the homeless swear and up and down they want.
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Obviously these laws will not be evenly applied. They will be targetted on homeless drug addicts and even then, specifically on the ones who cause problems.

Much like the new laws that charge the parents of kids who commit shooters will not be used to target the parents of gang members but only the parents of school shooters.

Or how the law Trump just got done for won't be used on literally anyone else.

Targetted, unfair laws are the norm now. How about one that helps out regular people for once?
 
ColemanwastheGOAT said:
Obviously these laws will not be evenly applied. They will be targetted on homeless drug addicts and even then, specifically on the ones who cause problems.

Much like the new laws that charge the parents of kids who commit shooters will not be used to target the parents of gang members but only the parents of school shooters.

Or how the law Trump just got done for won't be used on literally anyone else.

Targetted, unfair laws are the norm now. How about one that helps out regular people for once?
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All laws are targeted because law enforcement can choose enforcement at their leisure. That has always been the case.
 
ColemanwastheGOAT said:
I'm not saying it wouldn't be, I'm saying that it isn't a good argument for keeping the parks overrun with homeless people.
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A law like the one you're proposing wouldn't solve homelessness and it would likely get tossed out and cost the city a huge chunk of chain.
 
ColemanwastheGOAT said:
It is. Homelessness is 100% linked to hard drug use.
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Why doesn't West Virginia have the highest rate of homelessness then?
ColemanwastheGOAT said:
Obviously these laws will not be evenly applied. They will be targetted on homeless drug addicts and even then, specifically on the ones who cause problems.
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So an instant Due Process violation that would get the law laughed out of court?
 
Poon Goon said:
If the drunk person does something stupid like pissing on the sidewalk or harassing someone then there's already laws that can be used to arrest them.
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Good thing that homeless people never do that.

Your harmless drunk example lacks one element. What if the harmless drunk decides that he needs to sober up right next to the grade schools, and he decides to do it everyday, with no plan to ever end it. What if he also shatters his empty bottles on the sidewalk that the kids take to get to the school.

The definition of 'harmless, not bothering anyone' is subjective.
 
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Madmick said:
It gives them a record. You're building the grounds to remove them at will, or potentially hold them in jail. The idea is to invade their space, disrupt their constant drug use. Perhaps they will also gain the grounds to seize tents, bags, or other items as illegal property for destruction. Ultimately, as it mentioned in the article, without a coordinated effort by wealthier larger governments, as with the Feds or the State, these small local governments are doomed to the strategy as named in the article. "Make it uncomfortable" enough that the homeless choose to move down the road.

If suddenly these homeless find that there is nowhere which tolerates them to live as they have...well, perhaps they will change their behavior. That is the only real solution.
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The final one even, you (in particular) might say.
 
therealdope said:
Good thing that homeless people never do that.
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Pissing on sidewalks or harassing people is illegal for both drunks and homeless people.

therealdope said:
Your harmless drunk example lacks one element. What if the harmless drunk decides that he needs to sober up right next to the grade schools, and he decides to do it everyday, with no plan to ever end it.
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If he's harmless then what's the harm? If he's doing anything against the law like loitering, harassing kids, or anything else then use those laws to move him.

therealdope said:
What if he also shatters his empty bottles on the sidewalk that the kids take to get to the school.
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Sounds like littering at the very least and I'm sure a cop could find a reason to charge him with something else like criminal mischief.

therealdope said:
The definition of 'harmless, not bothering anyone' is subjective.
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It seems like you might think that I am advocating for letting homeless people go wherever they want. If that's the case then you missed the point.
 
avenue94 said:
Why doesn't West Virginia have the highest rate of homelessness then?

So an instant Due Process violation that would get the law laughed out of court?
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A few years ago maybe. Not these days, as explained in the next paragraph of my post which you ignored.

And West Virginia does have a pretty bad homeless problem.
 
avenue94 said:
A law like the one you're proposing wouldn't solve homelessness and it would likely get tossed out and cost the city a huge chunk of chain.
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We have those laws in Canada. You can't be in a park overnight. It's illegal.

It was @panamaican that came up with the weird sleeping in a park in the daytime law. A simple the 'park is closed at 10pm law' doesn't run into the issue of not enforcing a sleeping law on people during the day.
 
ColemanwastheGOAT said:
It is. Homelessness is 100% linked to hard drug use.
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Nah. It's a factor, but it's not 100%. Some people just get deep in the shit with debts. If you go belly up at like 55, it can be devastating, and some will choose to recluse it, rather than grind it out and live in an apartment with six roommates(granted that is an option for most, but still). Now of course drugs can be linked to the hopelessness people have once they're in that situation, but it's not the only catalyst. Not being able to afford independent comfort, and depression, are big factors too.
 
ferrisjso said:
It really isn't great.

This is why all crime statistics are false because the police get to decide what those statistics are by who they decide to go after.
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Yeah, right wing people complain about that a lot. They get called crybabies and conspiracy theorists for it.
 
HereticBD said:
Nah. It's a factor, but it's not 100%. Some people just get deep in the shit with debts. If you go belly up at like 55, it can be devastating, and some will choose to recluse it, rather than grind it out and live in an apartment with six roommates(granted that is an option for most, but still). Now of course drugs can be linked to the hopelessness people have once they're in that situation, but it's not the only catalyst. Not being able to afford independent comfort and depression, are big factors too.
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Fine. 99%
 
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