DNA tests are "troubling" for Turks. They are not from East Asia.

[rushbeg]

more nonsense from deluded culture vulture.

Facts are:

i2 is the original South European group

E1b comes from North Africa

Slavs in balkans are 1st mentioned in 6th century

Albanians are 1st mentioned in 11th

Facts are:

You aren't proving any scientific , unbiased research for your wishful claims. Me in the other hand I've provided multiple scientific researchs. Not pointless pictures about modern-day DNA tests which prove my point even more.

E-V13 has been proven to be the dominant haplogroup during Ancient Greek/Paleo-Balkan times , Where I2 was little to non-existent in Balkans.

Multiple ancient tombs in what sued to be Illhyria have tested positive for R1b , E-V13 and J2b2 (All of whom are present in high numbers amognst Albanians while are low amongst Slav new-corners)

There has been no documented Albanian migration into the areas where they live today from any other region , While Slavic invasion and migration has been well-documentated.

Most importantly , It has been proved I2 was minimal to non-existent in the Balkans when Slavs raided the area. I2 and R1a were mainly brought with Slavic invaders into the Balkans.

you constantly ignore facts n go with your wishful thinking instead

again facts are:

i2 is original South European group

E1b is North African

Slavs are 1st mentioned in 6th century

Albanians are 1st mentioned in 11th century

stop trying to pass your opinions as facts. It might work in University of Tirana where the only course given seems to be historical fiction, but that doesn’t work in real world.

I'm not ignoring facts , I'm pointing out facts.

J2 , E-V13 and R1B all reach their highest rate in Balkan amongst Albanians and Greeks (R1b to a lesser extent here) while they all reich their lowest rate amongst South Slav new-corners.

I2 and R1a jsut happen to be dominant amongst population whos culture and language is not Paleo-Balkan and most importantly whos migration is documentated. While they happen to reach their lowest rate amongst population whos culture and language are all Paleo-Balkan and whos migration to the Balkans was never recorded in Albanians and Greeks(Whos presence in todays Balkans is undeniable due to how well-documentated it is).

"This data suggests that the fate of E-V13 was linked to the elite dominance of Bronze Age society. The geographic distribution of the six main branches show that E-V13 quickly spread to all parts of Europe, but was especially common in Central Europe."

"The principal determining event that allowed I2a1b-L621 to become a major Eastern European lineage was probably the Slavic migrations from the 6th to the 9th century CE. Most modern Eastern Europeans belonging to I2a1b fit into the L147.2 (aka CTS10228, CTS2180 or Y3111) subclade, which is thought to have arisen 5,600 years ago (just before the Yamna period and the Trypillian expansion into the steppe), but has a TMRCA of only 2,300 years according to Yfull."

I only provide research from international unbiased researchers , Unlike from you I don't have to serach for biased and false "reserachs" since all the scientific unbiased researchs about this subject only prove my point.

And? It was never Albanian.

it’s only after serbs were kicked out by ottomans n replaced by Albanians (cause they took their religion n were obedient) did Kosovo became majority Albanian.

Albanian element was always present in the region and it was there long before Serbian was.

Whether they went into romanization , slavicization proccesses that's another thing.

hows this relevant? Most Albanians took ottoman religion to gain special favours from their overloads.

that’s why they were brought to Kosovo when serbs were kicked out (don’t see how you call that less persecuted?)

How is that not relevant that Orthodoxs were treated better than Catholics?

Do you realize that the majority of Northern Albanians were Catholics by the time Ottomans conquered the region?
Do you realize how hard it was for them to keep their religion due to Ottoman view on Catholics? They seemed them as a foreign threat unlike the Orthodoxs whos highest bodies were under Empire.

Funny enough how there are literally millions of Musim Sebrs (Majority of Bosniaks) yet you fanatics value religions more than your language and culture.

they paid taxes n were poorly treated cause they didn’t convert like majority of Albanians did to get preferential treatment for their daddy Turks.

also serbs had 2 major uprisings n liberated themselves from ottoman rule, while Albanians were happy being under daddy Turks up until the end of their rule.

Serbs were the first balkan nation to fall to the Ottomans , Albanians were the last.
Albanians defeated Ottomans for 25 years straight during Gjergj Kastrioti (Skanderbeg)'s rebillion. They also had rebellions under. While Serbs during that time were vassals and ally of Ottomans.

Albanian Highlanders kept their autonomy during 5 centuries of Turkish Rule. Not only they were independent in their mountains they even defeated Ottomans who tried to subdue them multiple times.

The only Serbs who can say that are Brdanis , Majority of whom are actualyl Slavicized Albanians.......

arnauts literally means foreign soldiers n that was a term Turks used for their Albanian minions cause there were so many of them.

They were happy to obey daddy Turks

I've schooled you already in this , You're a bad student kid. You should take notes better from the Professor.

"Arnaut" or "Arnavut" is derived from the medieval greek word for Albanians = "Arvanite".
You should look up real history and etymology works more , instead of basing your ideas on Albanians upon what Jovan Deretic told you......

cause you don’t know your history, but what can you expect when the only course given in university of Tirana is fictional history n myths are considered facts.

Albanians seized every opportunity they could to kill n expel serbs from Kosovo.

In last century they started as early as 1901, then in Balkan wars, 1st ww, 2nd ww with ss skanderbeg, during communist Yugoslavia n in last conflict when they expelled many serbs n destroyed their religious monuments.

Good how you take your facts from stuff with no sources written in Wikipedia by another serbs.

Serbs were leaving Kosovo on their own will , because the region was the poorest during Yugoslavia especially pre-1974 and after the death of TIto.
You aren't selling that shit here , What about Tivar Massacre in WW2? Or forcing albanians to add "vic" and "ic" into their names?

Only in the last war there have been up to a million Albanians expelled from Kosovo , Not to mention the expellions pre-war since the conquest of the region in 1912.

Good to see you mentioning SS Skanderbeg , It might be ironic this coming from someones whos ancestors were most likely chetniks.......

Funny how you try to bring these things up , You should stop throwign stones while being in a glass house........

Well Albanians themselves are a mix of North Africans (E1b) n west asians (j2).

1st for the most part serbs are the original Southern European group (i2) with some Slavic (r1a).

Show me (unbiased and real) facts of I2 being the dominant haplogroup in the Balkans like I showed you facts of them being concentrated in Ukraine during the time that E-V13 and J2 were dominant in the Balkans.

Well , You aint showing any facts. Since there are none.

more wishful thinking from culture vulture.

It’s been well documented that i2 were the original inhabitants of Southern Europe n E1b is North African that came after.

Territory of former Yugoslavia is where Illyria was n overwhelming majority of ppl living there still belong to the original i2 group.

All of Albanian today-inhabitated areas in Montenegro , Albania , Kosovo , Macedonia were inhabitated by Illyrians and were full of Illyrian settlements.

It is true that Illyria (Illyrian Settlements) covered a lot of Former Yugoslavia , In the same former Illyrian settlements there were found tombs whos DNA have been tested and came out as E-V13 , J2b2-L283 and R1B.

Ardian (Ardiaei) kingdom's capital was Scodra (Modern day Shkodra).

As I stated earlier Albanians only became the majority after serbs were driven out. It was never part of any Albanian state. The only time Albanians had control over it was during occupation in ww2 under fascist Italian protectorate.

also I hope your French is good (there’s subtitles)

Good , I'm assuming that there is an serbophile French in that video.

There is no "Greater Albania" , There is only Albanians seeking union of all lands that were left out where Albanians form the majority and are native to.
Albania was left bordering only other Albanians all around its borders. Souther Montenegro in the north , Kosovo in the Northeast , Western Macedonia in the east and North Greece (Epirus , Chameria) in the south.

All regions who had an Albanian majority during the time they were annexed. Many of them still are Albanian-majority (except for Chameria)

 

[grimballer]

Facts are:

You aren't proving any scientific , unbiased research for your wishful claims. Me in the other hand I've provided multiple scientific researchs. Not pointless pictures about modern-day DNA tests which prove my point even more.

E-V13 has been proven to be the dominant haplogroup during Ancient Greek/Paleo-Balkan times , Where I2 was little to non-existent in Balkans.

Multiple ancient tombs in what sued to be Illhyria have tested positive for R1b , E-V13 and J2b2 (All of whom are present in high numbers amognst Albanians while are low amongst Slav new-corners)

There has been no documented Albanian migration into the areas where they live today from any other region , While Slavic invasion and migration has been well-documentated.

Most importantly , It has been proved I2 was minimal to non-existent in the Balkans when Slavs raided the area. I2 and R1a were mainly brought with Slavic invaders into the Balkans.

I'm not ignoring facts , I'm pointing out facts.

J2 , E-V13 and R1B all reach their highest rate in Balkan amongst Albanians and Greeks (R1b to a lesser extent here) while they all reich their lowest rate amongst South Slav new-corners.

I2 and R1a jsut happen to be dominant amongst population whos culture and language is not Paleo-Balkan and most importantly whos migration is documentated. While they happen to reach their lowest rate amongst population whos culture and language are all Paleo-Balkan and whos migration to the Balkans was never recorded in Albanians and Greeks(Whos presence in todays Balkans is undeniable due to how well-documentated it is).

yawn!

The first map shows Europe around 7000 BC. The Ice Age had ended and Mesolithic European hunter-gatherers had migrated from their refuges to recolonize the continent, including Doggerland which later submerged beneath the rising North Sea. The majority of western European males belonged to Y-haplogroup I and northeast Europeans to haplogroup R1a. Other minor male lineages such as R1b, G, J, T and E would also have been present in Europe, having migrated from the Asian Steppe, the Middle East and North Africa.

The second map shows Europe around 2000 BC. In the intervening period agriculture had developed in the Levant and then spread through southern, central and eastern Europe by Neolithic farmers belonging mainly to Y-haplogroups such as G2a, and J2. During the following Copper and Bronze Ages, Indo-European tribes (R1a and R1b) migrated westward from the Eurasian Steppe. Long-distance trading networks developed across Europe and the Atlantic Coast, which helped spread distinct cultures such as Corded Ware and Bell Beaker. In the far north, Haplogroup N1c tribes arrived in Europe from Siberia, their geographical spread aligning with the Pit–Comb Ware culture. In the Middle East and Anatolia advanced civilizations began to emerge. The civilization of Ancient Egypt rose to a peak and the pyramids would remain the tallest and largest human constructions for thousands of years. Even in western Europe megalith builders were constructing giant monuments of their own.

Albanian element was always present in the region and it was there long before Serbian was.

Whether they went into romanization , slavicization proccesses that's another thing.

“albanian element” is 1st mentioned in 11th century... 6th centuries after serbs are mentioned.

How is that not relevant that Orthodoxs were treated better than Catholics?

Do you realize that the majority of Northern Albanians were Catholics by the time Ottomans conquered the region?
Do you realize how hard it was for them to keep their religion due to Ottoman view on Catholics? They seemed them as a foreign threat unlike the Orthodoxs whos highest bodies were under Empire.

Funny enough how there are literally millions of Musim Sebrs (Majority of Bosniaks) yet you fanatics value religions more than your language and culture.

All that is irrelevant as majority of Albanians took their invaders religion to get special treatments.

that’s why there’s a big split between Christian (especially orthodox) n Muslim Slavs. orthodox didn’t take invaders religion for special treatments unlike some Slavs n majority of Albanians. For orthodox Christians Muslim Slavs are considered traitors for siding with the enemy. On the other hand majority of Albanians didn’t have that problem as majority took invaders religion.

Serbs were the first balkan nation to fall to the Ottomans , Albanians were the last.
Albanians defeated Ottomans for 25 years straight during Gjergj Kastrioti (Skanderbeg)'s rebillion. They also had rebellions under. While Serbs during that time were vassals and ally of Ottomans.

Albanian Highlanders kept their autonomy during 5 centuries of Turkish Rule. Not only they were independent in their mountains they even defeated Ottomans who tried to subdue them multiple times.

The only Serbs who can say that are Brdanis , Majority of whom are actualyl Slavicized Albanians.......

serbs actually face off with much bigger Ottoman Empire, while tribal Albanians were hiding in their hills.

they were just happy to take ottoman religion n send them arnauts.

serbs Also has two uprisings against ottoman, while Albanians had none.

I've schooled you already in this , You're a bad student kid. You should take notes better from the Professor.

"Arnaut" or "Arnavut" is derived from the medieval greek word for Albanians = "Arvanite".
You should look up real history and etymology works more , instead of basing your ideas on Albanians upon what Jovan Deretic told you......

Good how you take your facts from stuff with no sources written in Wikipedia by another serbs.

In Turkish it literally meant foreign solider n was also the name for Albanians. They were loyal soldiers in ottoman army n there were many of them.

Stop trying to rewrite your history.

Serbs were leaving Kosovo on their own will , because the region was the poorest during Yugoslavia especially pre-1974 and after the death of TIto.
You aren't selling that shit here , What about Tivar Massacre in WW2? Or forcing albanians to add "vic" and "ic" into their names?

Only in the last war there have been up to a million Albanians expelled from Kosovo , Not to mention the expellions pre-war since the conquest of the region in 1912.

Good to see you mentioning SS Skanderbeg , It might be ironic this coming from someones whos ancestors were most likely chetniks.......

Funny how you try to bring these things up , You should stop throwign stones while being in a glass house........

yeah! Serbs were leaving cause they were getting expelled by tribal Albanians....

Also other serbs who were expelled during previous wars weren’t allowed to come back under communist Yugoslavia.

n good luck comparing Chetniks, who fought against Nazis for the most part n nazi n fascist collaborators during the entire time: the Albanians with ss skanderbeg. You seem proud of that affiliation.

Show me (unbiased and real) facts of I2 being the dominant haplogroup in the Balkans like I showed you facts of them being concentrated in Ukraine during the time that E-V13 and J2 were dominant in the Balkans.

Well , You aint showing any facts. Since there are none.

All of Albanian today-inhabitated areas in Montenegro , Albania , Kosovo , Macedonia were inhabitated by Illyrians and were full of Illyrian settlements.

It is true that Illyria (Illyrian Settlements) covered a lot of Former Yugoslavia , In the same former Illyrian settlements there were found tombs whos DNA have been tested and came out as E-V13 , J2b2-L283 and R1B.

Ardian (Ardiaei) kingdom's capital was Scodra (Modern day Shkodra).

See above.

Genetically

south Slavs (proto European i2) is older than Albanian (North African E1b)

Ethically/nationality wise serbs were mentioned in 6th century, while Albanians in 11th

no matter how you look At it serbs were there before Albanians.

Good , I'm assuming that there is an serbophile French in that video.

There is no "Greater Albania" , There is only Albanians seeking union of all lands that were left out where Albanians form the majority and are native to.
Albania was left bordering only other Albanians all around its borders. Souther Montenegro in the north , Kosovo in the Northeast , Western Macedonia in the east and North Greece (Epirus , Chameria) in the south.

All regions who had an Albanian majority during the time they were annexed. Many of them still are Albanian-majority (except for Chameria)

As oppose to all serbophobes who assisted Albanian terrorist to occupy Serbian land under false pretences?

N what a surprise Albanians just want to continue stealing other ppl lands pretending it’s theirs....

You can continue ass kissing Americans, but eventually that’s no longer gonna work n you be lucky to keep Tirana at the end.

 

[rushbeg]

yawn!

The first map shows Europe around 7000 BC. The Ice Age had ended and Mesolithic European hunter-gatherers had migrated from their refuges to recolonize the continent, including Doggerland which later submerged beneath the rising North Sea. The majority of western European males belonged to Y-haplogroup I and northeast Europeans to haplogroup R1a. Other minor male lineages such as R1b, G, J, T and E would also have been present in Europe, having migrated from the Asian Steppe, the Middle East and North Africa.

The second map shows Europe around 2000 BC. In the intervening period agriculture had developed in the Levant and then spread through southern, central and eastern Europe by Neolithic farmers belonging mainly to Y-haplogroups such as G2a, and J2. During the following Copper and Bronze Ages, Indo-European tribes (R1a and R1b) migrated westward from the Eurasian Steppe. Long-distance trading networks developed across Europe and the Atlantic Coast, which helped spread distinct cultures such as Corded Ware and Bell Beaker. In the far north, Haplogroup N1c tribes arrived in Europe from Siberia, their geographical spread aligning with the Pit–Comb Ware culture. In the Middle East and Anatolia advanced civilizations began to emerge. The civilization of Ancient Egypt rose to a peak and the pyramids would remain the tallest and largest human constructions for thousands of years. Even in western Europe megalith builders were constructing giant monuments of their own.

Again , more maps with some writting which brings nothing to the discussion.

Where are the facts , Ancient DNA testing or any scientific reserach to support your claims?

What is undeniable is that when Slavic Migration occurred during the 6th and 7th century , I2 was minimal to non-existent in the Balkans and the Slavic raiders brought I2 and R1a with them into the Balkans.

What you were saying is that "I2 was absorbed from Proto-Slavic population when they entered Balkans" which is absolutely not true , The R1a and I2 merget with eacher somewhere between Ukraine or Carpathian Mountains.
Not in the Balkans , These two haplogroups have nothing to do with Classical Balkan or Paleo-Balkan people (Albanians and Greeks are the only surviving descendants of them).

“albanian element” is 1st mentioned in 11th century... 6th centuries after serbs are mentioned.

"Albanian element" is linguistically and culturally derived from the "Paleo-Balkan element" something which you hopelessly claim about. Your element is "7th century migrants" element.

Now even genetics are backing Albanians being Paleo-Balkan people theory(Most likely Illyrians) , Given that there have been multiple tombs that have tested for E-V13 , J2B2-L283 and R1b which are typical Albanian clades.

"The oldest J2b2-L283 sample recovered among ancient DNA samples is a Late Bronze Age (1700-1500 BCE) individual from southern Croatia (Mathieson et al. 2017). His genome possessed about 30% of Steppe admixture and 15% of Eastern Hunter-Gatherer, which suggest a recent arrival from the Steppe. He was accompanied by a woman with similar admixtures, and both possessed typical Pontic-Caspian Steppe mtDNA (I1a1 and W3a). The timing, location and admixtures of these samples fit with the Illyrian colonisation of the Dinaric Alps, which is thought to have taken place between 1600 and 1100 BCE"

All that is irrelevant as majority of Albanians took their invaders religion to get special treatments.

that’s why there’s a big split between Christian (especially orthodox) n Muslim Slavs. orthodox didn’t take invaders religion for special treatments unlike some Slavs n majority of Albanians. For orthodox Christians Muslim Slavs are considered traitors for siding with the enemy. On the other hand majority of Albanians didn’t have that problem as majority took invaders religion.

"all of that is irrelevant" That's all you say when being hit by facts that don't back your agenda.

Although converting to Islam wasn't a good thing overall and long-term , It was better than converting to Orthodoxy.
Had they done the later (like many did) they would've been assimilated to Serbs. Many still were assimilated into Turks and Bosniaks in Sanjak though.

In Turkish it literally meant foreign solider n was also the name for Albanians. They were loyal soldiers in ottoman army n there were many of them.

Stop trying to rewrite your history.

How stupid can you be?

I gave you real etymology now you give me some folketymology that you read in Serbian Nationalist pages.

Arnaut is a corrupted form of "Arvanite" (Medieval Greek word for Albanian) not whatever Jovan Deretic and his group of braindead serb psuedo-historian nationalists told you.

yeah! Serbs were leaving cause they were getting expelled by tribal Albanians....

Also other serbs who were expelled during previous wars weren’t allowed to come back under communist Yugoslavia.

Serbs leaved at their own will for the most part , Neither were hundreds of thousands of Albanians (Probably millions) expelled from the Ex-YU area after 1912 allowed to come back.

"Tribal Albanians" Albanians are not "tribal" , They are a nation. Of course we know our Clan (Tribal) origins hence why we don't marry our cousins like you do.

n good luck comparing Chetniks, who fought against Nazis for the most part n nazi n fascist collaborators during the entire time: the Albanians with ss skanderbeg. You seem proud of that affiliation.

Why are you so obsessed with SS Skanderbeg? They might have done some bad things but they were nearly as worse as Chetniks so of course you can't compare the two.

Contrary to how you're wanting to portray Albanians here , Albanians hospitality towards Jews is actually well-known and documentated as Albania was the only country in the world during WWII where Jewish population increased.
So if you want to throw dirt at Albanians for that then you should give up on that already.

See above.

Genetically

south Slavs (proto European i2) is older than Albanian (North African E1b)

Ethically/nationality wise serbs were mentioned in 6th century, while Albanians in 11th

no matter how you look At it serbs were there before Albanians.

E-V13 , J2B2-L283 , R1b are directly connected to the Paleo-Balkan population (Most likely Illyrians) - These three haplogroups peak amognst Albanians nowadays (And Greeks)

I2 and R1a migrated along Slavs during the 6th and 7th century , Their mgiration is well-documanted.

Albanian language and culture are of Paleo-Balkan origin , Most Illyrian toponyms that have survived can only be translated through Albanian.
Albanians themselves took tehir name as a nation from the Albani tribe.

South Slavs are Slavs genetically , culturally and linguistically. There have been some absorbed native population (Hence the solid amount of E-V13) but Slavs are mostly descendants of those who raided the Balkans during the 6th and 7th centuries.

As oppose to all serbophobes who assisted Albanian terrorist to occupy Serbian land under false pretences?

"Serbophobes" , How sad......

Did these Albanian "terrorists" kill younglings , pregnant womens , old men and women? Pretty sure that they didn't.
The real terrorists were the Serbian army who displaced up to a million of Albanians and killed almost 10.000 Albanians.

Almost 2000 childrens are dead or still missing from the last war. But according to you they were "terrorists" , right?

N what a surprise Albanians just want to continue stealing other ppl lands pretending it’s theirs....

How ironic and hypocritical from a Serb to blame someone for that.....

By stealing lands you mean what Montenegro and Serbia did after 1878 and after the Balkan Wars(Greece also)?

You can continue ass kissing Americans, but eventually that’s no longer gonna work n you be lucky to keep Tirana at the end.

More hypocrisy coming from Russian butt-licker...

You call me out for being a supporter of the idea of all Albanian-majority lands uniting within one state which you label as "land stealing" and immediately after you promote literal "land stealing". From who should Albanians protect their country ? Hypocrite.

 

[rushbeg]

serbs actually face off with much bigger Ottoman Empire, while tribal Albanians were hiding in their hills.

they were just happy to take ottoman religion n send them arnauts.

serbs Also has two uprisings against ottoman, while Albanians had none.

It is actually impressive that you've been in this forum for over 10 years alone , and your english is still this terrible.

Are you trying to talk about Battle of Kosovo? The same battle where Teodor Muzaka was slain?
It is funny how Serbs completely ignore Albanians and other Balkan people presence in that mythicized battle.

What is funnier is Serbs never talking about them taking Ottomans side in 1448 Battle of Kosovo against Hunyadi and preventing Albanians led by Skanderbeg from reaching the battle.

"Hiding in their hills" , There were Serbs living in the hills too. They just kept paying taxes and laying low like good ol boys.

Malsor Albanians defeated Ottomans multiple times when they tried to subdue them.

Albanians had multiple rebellions Dervish Cara uprising , 1689 uprising led by Pjeter Bogdani (During Great Turkish War) , 1911 uprising , 1910 uprising ,1912 uprising just to name a few.

You also seem to have no idea that "uprising" and "rebellion" are the same thing.

By the way. Today is Kosovo's Liberation Day , Cheers!

 

[goldennirvana]

And they failed to take just the part they wanted to take.

Stupid argument. The Ottomans faced entirely different armies than what the Crusaders faced. The Crusaders faced Saladin's army, which was the last formidable army of that region. Ottomans conquered so much of the middle-east because there was no real resistance.

Yes, the Ottoman Empire never existed.

???????

They went as deep as Vienna twice.

Because they faced fractured, weak armies up until that point. The moment they met a solid army, they started to take major losses.

No, never is.

1.- Yes, it was pretty common to raise conquered people as soldiers, this is nothing new, that's how you get the manpower for an empire.

But they prized Europeans more than anyone else. They wanted European women to breed with, and European boys to turn into soldiers.

2.- LOL at desperate for European DNA, im guessing that White Americans fucking African slaves also means they were desperate for that African DNA.

Totally different issue. Those white men weren't trying to get black women pregnant to create as many mixed-race children as possible (who would then be swallowed up by the white population), to fight in wars. Nor did they steal young African boys from villages to raise as soldiers. How can you even compare the two? Oh I forgot, I'm debating Rod. What else can I expect? LOL

 

[goldennirvana]

so they killed your men in battle and raped your woman as trophees but they felt inferior?

They felt physically inferior, correct. The only reason they were able to conquer the Balkans was because the Balkans had no good armies at the time. The moment they faced real opposition in Europe, they started taking major losses. The Ottomans were physically unimpressive (very short, for example), but they did have well disciplined armies and strong military tactics, which enabled them to conquer the Balkans. Europeans, however, were significantly taller, which the Ottomans desperately wanted for themselves.

 

[goldennirvana]

This has got to be a troll post. Pre-Islamic Turkic people were nomads and were described as the most fierce and warlike people by Europeans and Asians. They're the reason why Chinese, Persian, Romans and Caucasus empires built long walls and forts and they destroyed and pillaged multiple empires simultaneously over the last 3,000 years despite having only inferior tools and horses, the Hun led by Atilla is the most known one. They didn't just stop there but continued to expand after they've converted to Islam and their Turkic cousins (Mongols led by Genghis Khan) did the same as what their forefathers did by ravaging half of the world.

"Lack of physical prowess" my ass.

They lacked height, which made them feel inferior. The Europeans, however, were significantly taller. This is why Ottomans stole European women to breed with and European boys to raise as soldiers.

Mongols were/are not Turkic. You really don't know anything about the subject if you think they were/are.

 

[Rod1]

Stupid argument. The Ottomans faced entirely different armies than what the Crusaders faced. The Crusaders faced Saladin's army, which was the last formidable army of that region. Ottomans conquered so much of the middle-east because there was no real resistance.

This is beyond ridiculous man, the Ottomans were a military powerhouse up until the XVIII.

Because they faced fractured, weak armies up until that point. The moment they met a solid army, they started to take major losses.

Ottomans had faced the Timurids, if what you said was true then Eastern Europeans would be all about the mongol genes and so would Turks, since Mongols and Timurids fucked them up badly.

But they prized Europeans more than anyone else. They wanted European women to breed with, and European boys to turn into soldiers.

You do realize that Jannisaries were recruited as slaves right? they recruited christians because christians would lack any political power gained from the position. Once groomed they would be converted to Islam and be 100% loyal to the Sultan.

Same thing with the Mamluks of Egypt.

Totally different issue. Those white men weren't trying to get black women pregnant to create as many mixed-race children as possible (who would then be swallowed up by the white population),

Yes, precisely, that's why its fucking awful.

Deadbeat dads at institutional level.

 

[grimballer]

Again , more maps with some writting which brings nothing to the discussion.

Where are the facts , Ancient DNA testing or any scientific reserach to support your claims?

What is undeniable is that when Slavic Migration occurred during the 6th and 7th century , I2 was minimal to non-existent in the Balkans and the Slavic raiders brought I2 and R1a with them into the Balkans.

What you were saying is that "I2 was absorbed from Proto-Slavic population when they entered Balkans" which is absolutely not true , The R1a and I2 merget with eacher somewhere between Ukraine or Carpathian Mountains.
Not in the Balkans , These two haplogroups have nothing to do with Classical Balkan or Paleo-Balkan people (Albanians and Greeks are the only surviving descendants of them).

Gotta love how you keep ignoring facts n continue spewing your Albanian propaganda.

It’s pretty clear that i group is the original European group n i2 is the original Southern European, while groups like e and j came from North Africa and west Asia later on.

I2 is present in Southern Europe the entire time, but you wanna make believe that they magically disappeared just before Slavs appearance in the Balkans n then magically reappeared with Slavs in the Balkans.

"Albanian element" is linguistically and culturally derived from the "Paleo-Balkan element" something which you hopelessly claim about. Your element is "7th century migrants" element.

Now even genetics are backing Albanians being Paleo-Balkan people theory(Most likely Illyrians) , Given that there have been multiple tombs that have tested for E-V13 , J2B2-L283 and R1b which are typical Albanian clades.

"The oldest J2b2-L283 sample recovered among ancient DNA samples is a Late Bronze Age (1700-1500 BCE) individual from southern Croatia (Mathieson et al. 2017). His genome possessed about 30% of Steppe admixture and 15% of Eastern Hunter-Gatherer, which suggest a recent arrival from the Steppe. He was accompanied by a woman with similar admixtures, and both possessed typical Pontic-Caspian Steppe mtDNA (I1a1 and W3a). The timing, location and admixtures of these samples fit with the Illyrian colonisation of the Dinaric Alps, which is thought to have taken place between 1600 and 1100 BCE"

again you present your speculation as fact.

Albanians as a group are 1st mentioned in 11th century (way after Slavs)

n there’s no real connection between today’s Albanians n Illyrians. Illyrians weren’t even one nation like you like to claim. It was an umbrella term for all inhabitants of the Balkans, some of which weren’t even connected linguistically or culturally.

"all of that is irrelevant" That's all you say when being hit by facts that don't back your agenda.

Although converting to Islam wasn't a good thing overall and long-term , It was better than converting to Orthodoxy.
Had they done the later (like many did) they would've been assimilated to Serbs. Many still were assimilated into Turks and Bosniaks in Sanjak though.

they had special protection from daddy Turkey. Of course they chose Islam.

also many serbs got albanized when they converted to Islam.

How stupid can you be?

I gave you real etymology now you give me some folketymology that you read in Serbian Nationalist pages.

Arnaut is a corrupted form of "Arvanite" (Medieval Greek word for Albanian) not whatever Jovan Deretic and his group of braindead serb psuedo-historian nationalists told you.

All that is irrelevant cause in turkish it meant foreign soldier n is also name from Albanians.

Albanians were proudly serving daddy Turks.

there were many Albanian grand viziers in Ottoman Empire n many Albanian women were married to ottoman sultans.

Serbs leaved at their own will for the most part , Neither were hundreds of thousands of Albanians (Probably millions) expelled from the Ex-YU area after 1912 allowed to come back.

If getting expelled n mistreated = leaving on their own

sure, they were “leaving on their own”

"Tribal Albanians" Albanians are not "tribal" , They are a nation. Of course we know our Clan (Tribal) origins hence why we don't marry our cousins like you do.

they are a recent “nation” created mostly by austohungarians (like Bosniaks) to prevent emergence of big Serbian state.

n Turks who wanted to keep their influence in the region by backing Muslim controlled states.

Also it’s funny you talk about marrying cousins....

that’s usually what happens in clan based societies.

That’s probably why Albanians have the lowest iq in Europe.

Why are you so obsessed with SS Skanderbeg? They might have done some bad things but they were nearly as worse as Chetniks so of course you can't compare the two.

Why are you so defensive about ss skanderbeg? Was grandad part of ss?

Contrary to how you're wanting to portray Albanians here , Albanians hospitality towards Jews is actually well-known and documentated as Albania was the only country in the world during WWII where Jewish population increased.
So if you want to throw dirt at Albanians for that then you should give up on that already.

they just happen to be hostile to everybody else.

E-V13 , J2B2-L283 , R1b are directly connected to the Paleo-Balkan population (Most likely Illyrians) - These three haplogroups peak amognst Albanians nowadays (And Greeks)

I2 and R1a migrated along Slavs during the 6th and 7th century , Their mgiration is well-documanted.

Albanian language and culture are of Paleo-Balkan origin , Most Illyrian toponyms that have survived can only be translated through Albanian.
Albanians themselves took tehir name as a nation from the Albani tribe.

South Slavs are Slavs genetically , culturally and linguistically. There have been some absorbed native population (Hence the solid amount of E-V13) but Slavs are mostly descendants of those who raided the Balkans during the 6th and 7th centuries.

Albanians just like to claim other cultures. Even in your own language you don’t call yourself Albanians but shiptards.

the reality is i2 group is original Southern European group n was in the Balkans before North African E1b n west Asian j2.

while Albanians as ppl are 1st mentioned in 11th century (way after Slavs).

"Serbophobes" , How sad......

Did these Albanian "terrorists" kill younglings , pregnant womens , old men and women? Pretty sure that they didn't.
The real terrorists were the Serbian army who displaced up to a million of Albanians and killed almost 10.000 Albanians.

Almost 2000 childrens are dead or still missing from the last war. But according to you they were "terrorists" , right?


How ironic and hypocritical from a Serb to blame someone for that.....

Yes. N They were doing far worse things like kidnapping young men/women n harvest their organs.

today’s occupied Kosovo is a criminal state. Drug n human trafficking is rampant.

By stealing lands you mean what Montenegro and Serbia did after 1878 and after the Balkan Wars(Greece also)?

what are you talking about.

Albanians never had their own state. They were tribal clans living mostly in mountains n never cared about their “own state”.

Only after austohungarian n turkish influence, they started demanding their own state.

More hypocrisy coming from Russian butt-licker...


You call me out for being a supporter of the idea of all Albanian-majority lands uniting within one state which you label as "land stealing" and immediately after you promote literal "land stealing". From who should Albanians protect their country ? Hypocrite.

if you learn to stay in your lane n don’t try to take other ppl lands there would be no problems, but that’s not what you’re doing.

you’re constantly n aggressively trying to annex more territory. Eventually it will backfire n Americans will no longer be able to protect you.

 

[grimballer]

It is actually impressive that you've been in this forum for over 10 years alone , and your english is still this terrible.

Are you trying to talk about Battle of Kosovo? The same battle where Teodor Muzaka was slain?
It is funny how Serbs completely ignore Albanians and other Balkan people presence in that mythicized battle.

What is funnier is Serbs never talking about them taking Ottomans side in 1448 Battle of Kosovo against Hunyadi and preventing Albanians led by Skanderbeg from reaching the battle.

"Hiding in their hills" , There were Serbs living in the hills too. They just kept paying taxes and laying low like good ol boys.

Malsor Albanians defeated Ottomans multiple times when they tried to subdue them.

Albanians had multiple rebellions Dervish Cara uprising , 1689 uprising led by Pjeter Bogdani (During Great Turkish War) , 1911 uprising , 1910 uprising ,1912 uprising just to name a few.

You also seem to have no idea that "uprising" and "rebellion" are the same thing.

By the way. Today is Kosovo's Liberation Day , Cheers!

gotta love this twist.

majority of Albanians took turkish religion for special privileges, but somehow they always in war with Turks.

yeah right...

They were loyal minions for the most part.

they were living in their hills n Turks didn’t bother them much cause they took their religion n were supplying Turks with arnauts.

Also there’s a difference between rebellion n uprising.

rebellion is something a clan based society would do without any specific goal in mind. Like a knee jerk reaction.

An uprising is what a nation does to liberate themselves from foreign invaders.

Serbs had 2, while Albanians had 0.

actually they had 1, but that was backed by serbs.

without serbs Albania would be part of Turkey today n Albanians would be like Kurds.

 

[Rod1]

The Europeans, however, were significantly taller.

By the end of the middle ages the average European height was something like 1.67 centimetes, AKA manlets.

 

[rushbeg]

Gotta love how you keep ignoring facts n continue spewing your Albanian propaganda.

It’s pretty clear that i group is the original European group n i2 is the original Southern European, while groups like e and j came from North Africa and west Asia later on.

I2 is present in Southern Europe the entire time, but you wanna make believe that they magically disappeared just before Slavs appearance in the Balkans n then magically reappeared with Slavs in the Balkans.

It's ironic how you accuse others of doing what exactly you're doing.

You're getting embarrased kid , You're clueless at genetics and history in overall. Your bias and hatred towards Albanian is blinding you.

Where are the fact to support your claims? Theere are none.

When Slavs raided the Balkans I2 was a minority , Your ancestors (assumign you're I2 or R1a) were the barbarians who raided the area. Not the natives.

There have been many ancient DNA testings proving that when Slavs raided the Balkans I2 was a minority-to-non existen in the balkans.

again you present your speculation as fact.

Albanians as a group are 1st mentioned in 11th century (way after Slavs)

Albanoi is first mentioned by Ptolemy in 150 AD.

Thats where Albanians most likely got their names from[

n there’s no real connection between today’s Albanians n Illyrians. Illyrians weren’t even one nation like you like to claim. It was an umbrella term for all inhabitants of the Balkans, some of which weren’t even connected linguistically or culturally.

Illyrians settled in the same geographical area , The only surviving native Balkan culture , nation and language in the areas Illyrians lived is the Albanian culture , language and nation.
The only language where the few Illyrian surviving words can be translated is the Albanian language.

It wasn't an "umbrella term for all inhabitants of the Balkans" , Illyrians had a distinct culture and language from Thracians , Greeks , Dacians and other Paleo-Balkan people (Although it can be argued that some of them were more similar with each-other such as Dacians and Thracians).

How different were the Southern and Northern Illyrian tribes from each other can be argued , but acting like it was just an universal term for all inhabitant of Balkans shows just how clueless you are.

they had special protection from daddy Turkey. Of course they chose Islam.

also many serbs got albanized when they converted to Islam.

"many serbs got albanized" Where are the facts?

Obviously there were some Slavs who were assimilated into native Albanian culture over the centuries , but they are mostly a minority as showed by genetic tests. Slavic haplogroups such as I2 and R1a are a minority and almost inexistent amongst Northern Ghegs.

While in the other hand there are a lot of native Albanian population who got assimilated into Serbs until recently (Hwece why the solid rate of E-V13).

Especially in Southern Montenegro (Where I2 and R1a are almost inexistent also) , The Kuçi , Beljopalivici , Vasojevici , Bratonizici , Piperi tribes etc all have at least partial Albanian ancestry.

For example Kuçi is first mentioned in 1330 as an Albanian village with their leader Pjeter Kuçi. This is Old Kuçi that we're talking about.

Until the 17th century the Drekalovici branch of Kuçi (Novo Kuçi , New Kuçi) were Albanians and Catholics.
As evidented by Mariano Bolizzo report in 1614
490 houses -

Chuzzi Albanesi (Albanian Kuçi),
commanded by Lale Drecalou (Lale Drekalov) and Nico Raizcou (Niko Rajckov),
a very warlike and brave people,
1,500 men in arms;

In contrast to you , I speak only with facts.

All that is irrelevant cause in turkish it meant foreign soldier n is also name from Albanians.

Albanians were proudly serving daddy Turks.

there were many Albanian grand viziers in Ottoman Empire n many Albanian women were married to ottoman sultans.[/QUOTE]
Wrong , It was Serbs who gave their daughters to Ottomans.
They weren't even married to them , They were just part of the harem.

Such as the daughter of Laxar Olivera who was a part of Bayazid's harem.

There are reports of Serbian being the language of the Ottoman court , Due to the high amount of Slavs that served Ottomans.
Obviously there were Albanians who reached high positions in the Ottoman state as the Grand Viziers you've mentioned.

There were also Albanians to whom Ottomans held no power over such as the Albanian Highlanders , The same can't be said about Serbs.

they are a recent “nation” created mostly by austohungarians (like Bosniaks) to prevent emergence of big Serbian state.

Why do you keep babbling the same things over and over despite being schooled multiple times?

Albanians have had an distinct ethnic identity for as long as they've existed , As of them being "created by asutro-hungarians" I gues that Austro-Hungarians manipulated Stefan Dusan into writting about Albanians as an distinct people and especially writting discriminating laws against them in his Dusan code.

n Turks who wanted to keep their influence in the region by backing Muslim controlled states.

Turks didn't want an Albanian nation . Do you even realize how dumb you're sounding right now?

How would they've profited by that? You're just gasping at grapes and babbling non-sense now.

Also it’s funny you talk about marrying cousins....

that’s usually what happens in clan based societies.

That’s probably why Albanians have the lowest iq in Europe.

Good on you just showing again how clueless you are about the Albanians.

Our law (Kanun) prohibits the marriage within the tribe even if they are as distant as 400 generations

(Quoted from Kanun of Lekë Dukagjini - Variant of Pukë)

NENI 38. Ndalime martese në fis
Martesa në fis asht e ndalueme. Edhe <katërqind> breza me u ba, martesë në fis nuk bahet.
Para se me hy për martesë, pyet për fis e gjak. <Doli çika e fisit tand, hiq dorë prej saj>. <Martesë në fis s'mund bash. Bane guxove, ke fisin në shpinë>.

Rule 38. Prohibition of marriage within tribe
Marriage within tribe is prohibited , Even if it goes as far as 400 generations , there cannot be marriage within members of the same tribe.
Before entering marriage talks , ask about her tribe and blood (origins). If the women turns out to be from your tribe , give up on her.

You can't marry within your tribe , If you do , You will have the whole tribe in your back.

Tell me again about that "cousin marriage" ?

That’s probably why Albanians have the lowest iq in Europe.

In the latest test (https://worldpopulationreview.com/countries/average-iq-by-country/) Albania scored 90 , higher tran Serbia's 89

Why are you so defensive about ss skanderbeg? Was grandad part of ss?

No , My grandfather wasn't.

But even if he was , It would've been much better than having a Chetnik ancestor (which you might have).

they just happen to be hostile to everybody else.

No Albaniasn are not hostile to everybody else , Do you expect us to let Serbs expell us , massacre us and just welcome them with open hands? Probably you might expect that since you're ancestors were the first to fall to the Turks while Albanians were the last.

Albanians just like to claim other cultures. Even in your own language you don’t call yourself Albanians but shiptards.

I don't claim anyones else culture , You are the one trying to go against History and Genetics in order to claim others heritage.

We call ourselfes Shqiptar , get the spelling right shka. We used to call ourselves Arbën , Arbnesh or Arbnor until the 17th century. Shqiptar become the main ethnic identity term somewhere in the 18th century.

the reality is i2 group is original Southern European group n was in the Balkans before North African E1b n west Asian j2.

while Albanians as ppl are 1st mentioned in 11th century (way after Slavs).

The tombs that have tested positive for E-V13 , J2B2-L283 and R1b will say otherwise....

What about the Greeks? They share the same major haplogroups as Albanians and have a very low rage of I2a-din.

Are they North African migrants too in comparision to he "native serbs"?

You're so desperate.

Yes. N They were doing far worse things like kidnapping young men/women n harvest their organs.

today’s occupied Kosovo is a criminal state. Drug n human trafficking is rampant.

Where are you basing these accusations on? Dick Marty? Wasn't the guy embarrased just like you here in that claim already?

While there are literally 1133 Albanian childrens murdered or missing from the terrorist Serb forces in the Kosovo war.

what are you talking about.

Albanians never had their own state. They were tribal clans living mostly in mountains n never cared about their “own state”.

Only after austohungarian n turkish influence, they started demanding their own state.

There were multiple Albanian principalities and states during medieval era stretching all the way down to Morea.

"Turkish influence" So Turks wanted to lose lands and they influenced Albanians to make their own state which meant less land for the Empire? Does it even get any dumber than that?

if you learn to stay in your lane n don’t try to take other ppl lands there would be no problems, but that’s not what you’re doing.

you’re constantly n aggressively trying to annex more territory. Eventually it will backfire n Americans will no longer be able to protect you.

"annex more territory" , You mean territory that was forcefully and wrongfully left out of Albanian borders and that is Albanian majority.

"other ppl lands" Do you mean lands that are largely majority Albanian and have been so for centuries?

I don't call on lands that aren't majority Albanian to be part of Albania , Only territories which were wrongfully left out of Albania state.

While you in the other hand are calling for annexation up until Tirana , But we know your type shka.

You like hiding your hand after you throw stones , shkavell.

 

[rushbeg]

gotta love this twist.

majority of Albanians took turkish religion for special privileges, but somehow they always in war with Turks.

yeah right...

They were loyal minions for the most part.

There wer Albanians who integrated into Ottoman society , like there were Slavs and Greeks who did the same.

The difference is that there were Albanians who kept their autonomy during Ottoman Conquest, The same can't be said about your ancestors.

Almost everytime that Ottomans tried to subdue the Highlander Albanians , they were badly defeated.

they were living in their hills n Turks didn’t bother them much cause they took their religion

Please go tell someone from Mirdita , Dukagjin Highlands or Malsia e Madhe about how they took Turks religion , Let's see how thell that goes for you shkavell.

n were supplying Turks with arnauts.

"arnauts"
This is getting ridicilous , The fact that you can be schooled with facts and real etymology multiple times and still continue babbling the still non-sense is impressive and sadi n the same part.

Lying to yourselves and mental gymanstics is a part of Serb culture after all......

Also there’s a difference between rebellion n uprising.

They are essentially the same thing.
up·ris·ing
/ˈəpˌrīziNG/

noun

1. an act of resistance or rebellion; a revolt.
   "an armed uprising"

re·bel·lion
/rəˈbelyən/

noun
noun: rebellion; plural noun: rebellions

1. an act of violent or open resistance to an established government or ruler.
   "the authorities put down a rebellion by landless colonials"

rebellion is something a clan based society would do without any specific goal in mind. Like a knee jerk reaction.

No it is not.
noun
noun: rebellion; plural noun: rebellions

1. 
   
   an act of violent or open resistance to an established government or ruler.
   "the authorities put down a rebellion by landless colonials"

An uprising is what a nation does to liberate themselves from foreign invaders.

Serbs had 2, while Albanians had 0.

Albanians had multiple rebellions and uprising as mentioned in the posts above.

The fact that you are unable to comprehend basic information that doesn't support your fairy-tales it's not anyones fault.

Also another reminder that Albanians were the last to fall to the Turks and defeated Ottomans for 25 years straight under Gjergj Kastrioti - Skanderbeg

Also another reminder about how loyal Serbs were to the Turks
On 15 June, the date of the Battle of Kosovo, he (Mehmed V) visited the site of the historical battle greeted by 100.000 people. During his visit to Kosovo vilayet he signed a general amnesty for all participants of the Albanian revolts of 1910 and 1911.[50] He was welcomed by the choir of the Serbian Orthodox Seminary with Turkish songs and vice-consul Milan Rakić had gathered a large contingent of Serbs, but many Albanians boycotted the event.[51]

actually they had 1, but that was backed by serbs.

Albanians had multiple uprisings and some of them even kept their independence. The same can't be said about Serbs.

All of your uprising were massively backed by daddy Russia since they wanted to expand their influence in the Balkans. Hence why Montenegro and Serbia expanded their lands that much.

without serbs Albania would be part of Turkey today n Albanians would be like Kurds.

If it wasn't for Serbs Albanians would've had a much larger country today.

Actually if it were for Serbia and their daddy Russia Albania would've been a much smaller country nowadays , comprising of only Central Albania. While Serbs and Montenegrins would''ve annexed more lands they had no claim over in the North and Greeks would've done the same in the South.

If it wasn't for Serbia , Greece and Montenegro desire and hunger for annexing lands which were Albanian-majority trhe Balkans would've been much more stabile nowadays.