End of an era: The Danaher Death squad is no more

[Cameron]

Well what do those points mean? In a drunken bar brawl they would mean that Pat Downey would be standing over a stunned Gordon with a broken beer bottle in his hand.

Agree to disagree. I think if they fight MMA Gordon has a path to finish and Pat doesn't. Tech fall is less meaningful when the other fighter gets finished easily once subs are involved. Only way Pat wins is by using a weapon.

 

[rmongler]

Agree to disagree. I think if they fight MMA Gordon has a path to finish and Pat doesn't. Tech fall is less meaningful when the other fighter gets finished easily once subs are involved. Only way Pat wins is by using a weapon.

Well, we've all heard this argument before. Some of us have even made it ourselves, at one time. But then, it's not just a matter of speculation any more is it? We've been having vale tudo events for three or four generations on now. These questions have all been put to the test. We've ran the experiments in a thousand and thousand of different runs. And well, the results are in: takedowns matter, getting on top matters, riding matters.

 

[yetanother]

Agree to disagree. I think if they fight MMA Gordon has a path to finish and Pat doesn't. Tech fall is less meaningful when the other fighter gets finished easily once subs are involved. Only way Pat wins is by using a weapon.

Pat can try to knock him out with improvised boxing or throw Gordon on concrete.

 

[Cameron]

Well, we've all heard this argument before. Some of us have even made it ourselves, at one time. But then, it's not just a matter of speculation any more is it? We've been having vale tudo events for three or four generations on now. These questions have all been put to the test. We've ran the experiments in a thousand and thousand of different runs. And well, the results are in: takedowns matter, getting on top matters, riding matters.

It does matter 100% it matters but I doubt Pat has the nuances of GNP down and wouldn't be able to posture and deliver damage with out Gordon getting to his back or in on his legs.

Look at the first UFC's given their skills and lack of experience in MMA if they fought MMA who would be the favorite?

 

[rmongler]

It does matter 100% it matters but I doubt Pat has the nuances of GNP down and wouldn't be able to posture and deliver damage with out Gordon getting to his back or in on his legs.

Look at the first UFC's given their skills and lack of experience in MMA if they fought MMA who would be the favorite?

But see, now we're making an equivocative two-step; between a question about a quality in general, and a question about a man in particular. The original point was about the value of a quality or set of entangled qualities in general - with performance at this quality being touched upon by one degree or another in the particular system of scoring that was in question - the question of whether a man named Pat Downey has particular aptitude at something else or not being more or less irrelevant to this point.

 

[yetanother]

It does matter 100% it matters but I doubt Pat has the nuances of GNP down and wouldn't be able to posture and deliver damage with out Gordon getting to his back or in on his legs.

Look at the first UFC's given their skills and lack of experience in MMA if they fought MMA who would be the favorite?

Gordon wont be able to take him down, and I think Pat could beat him on the feat due to doing a sport done in a standing position and not doing any bodybuilding.

 

[Daz2300]

This.

No doubt he is the best bjj coach in the world, but the smartest people can say more with less words .

As a philosophy graduate i get really wound up by the whole "He has a philosophy degree, he's soooo intelligent, that's why he talks like that..." guff.

All the smart people from a philosophy background i've ever meant don't carry on anything like him. They're able to explain vastly more complicated topics than Jiu Jitsu in concise, easy to understand ways that don't involve boring the tits off you for hours in a condescending tone while continually repeating themselves.

And the Japanese stuff is comical too :-D

 

[Coconutwater]

As a philosophy graduate i get really wound up by the whole "He has a philosophy degree, he's soooo intelligent, that's why he talks like that..." guff.

All the smart people from a philosophy background i've ever meant don't carry on anything like him. They're able to explain vastly more complicated topics than Jiu Jitsu in concise, easy to understand ways that don't involve boring the tits off you for hours in a condescending tone while continuing repeating themselves.

And the Japanese stuff is comical too :-D

Everyone thinks John is so bright, he’s ok…

People who went to school and paid attention won’t be so impressed. All he did is bring an academic approach to his curriculum, something more educated people would do, had they simply chose BJJ as their focus.

Instead, they’re designing microchips, vaccines and studying fluid dynamics.

 

[listrahtes]

Tech fall shows an extreme amount of skill, but the consequences aren't the same as a choke. Both show they are better at their perspective sport but one just means more IMO. A choke will kill you, scoring more points faster won't.

I love these killa arguments <Lmaoo> If you ever meet a good and angry wrestler on the street tell him. A slam on concrete is pure wellness as are many other wrestling skills without a ruleset.

 

[randomg1t]

As a philosophy graduate i get really wound up by the whole "He has a philosophy degree, he's soooo intelligent, that's why he talks like that..." guff.

All the smart people from a philosophy background i've ever meant don't carry on anything like him. They're able to explain vastly more complicated topics than Jiu Jitsu in concise, easy to understand ways that don't involve boring the tits off you for hours in a condescending tone while continually repeating themselves.

And the Japanese stuff is comical too :-D

Everyone thinks John is so bright, he’s ok…

People who went to school and paid attention won’t be so impressed. All he did is bring an academic approach to his curriculum, something more educated people would do, had they simply chose BJJ as their focus.

Instead, they’re designing microchips, vaccines and studying fluid dynamics.

thank fuck i'm not the only one who thinks this.

i have no doubt in my mind he's an intelligent man, and a beastly coach. but he's trying so hard to sound like a sophisticated university professor that he actually ends up sounding like a condescending douchebag. it honestly seems to me like he's overcompensating due to a serious inferiority complex, using every chance to try to show the world how incredibly smart he is. if you spend an hour listening to his shit, it starts to seem pathetic.

i love the techniques he teaches and his students use in competition, they're awesome. but i can't stand the smug asshole.

 

[RemyR]

Gordon wont be able to take him down, and I think Pat could beat him on the feat due to doing a sport done in a standing position and not doing any bodybuilding.

it’s been a while since I’ve watched it but I seem to recall Gordon landing a takedown or two during the sub grappling portion of their match

 

[Daz2300]

thank fuck i'm not the only one who thinks this.

i have no doubt in my mind he's an intelligent man, and a beastly coach. but he's trying so hard to sound like a sophisticated university professor that he actually ends up sounding like a condescending douchebag. it honestly seems to me like he's overcompensating due to a serious inferiority complex, using every chance to try to show the world how incredibly smart he is. if you spend an hour listening to his shit, it starts to seem pathetic.

i love the techniques he teaches and his students use in competition, they're awesome. but i can't stand the smug asshole.

He's clearly an amazing coach given what his students have achieved and clearly knows a lot more about grappling than i ever will but that's not the same thing as being a good teacher.

Based on the couple of instructionals of his i have i'd say there's plenty of guys like Hall, Schreiner, MacKenzie, Terra, Giles etc. who seem to be far better able to convey complex information related to grappling in a clearer and far more concise manner on video. As i mentioned, all the very smart folks i met studying philosophy in college used very simple language to easily and quickly explain hugely complicated ideas so anyone could understand them in stark contrast to what Danaher does with far simpler ones related to BJJ.

Between the overly verbose teaching style, the rashguards and the Japanese words it all feels a little like try-hard to me; more about cultivating an image than anything else.

 

[CI]

He's clearly an amazing coach given what his students have achieved and clearly knows a lot more about grappling than i ever will but that's not the same thing as being a good teacher.

Based on the couple of instructionals of his i have i'd say there's plenty of guys like Hall, Schreiner, MacKenzie, Terra, Giles etc. who seem to be far better able to convey complex information related to grappling in a clearer and far more concise manner on video. As i mentioned, all the very smart folks i met studying philosophy in college used very simple language to easily and quickly explain hugely complicated ideas so anyone could understand them in stark contrast to what Danaher does with far simpler ones related to BJJ.

Between the overly verbose teaching style, the rashguards and the Japanese words it all feels a little like try-hard to me; more about cultivating an image than anything else.

lol the guard passing ones are so repetitive. One bonus is that if I miss something, I dont have to repeat the video ha

 

[lechien]

I think the DDS still exists and we are just being trolled.
I doubt Nicky Ryan would live his brother which leads me to think it is fake news.

 

[randomg1t]

He's clearly an amazing coach given what his students have achieved and clearly knows a lot more about grappling than i ever will but that's not the same thing as being a good teacher.

Based on the couple of instructionals of his i have i'd say there's plenty of guys like Hall, Schreiner, MacKenzie, Terra, Giles etc. who seem to be far better able to convey complex information related to grappling in a clearer and far more concise manner on video. As i mentioned, all the very smart folks i met studying philosophy in college used very simple language to easily and quickly explain hugely complicated ideas so anyone could understand them in stark contrast to what Danaher does with far simpler ones related to BJJ.

Between the overly verbose teaching style, the rashguards and the Japanese words it all feels a little like try-hard to me; more about cultivating an image than anything else.

i agree completely. it's just hard to dismiss him as a bad teacher when his pupils are so effective and his techniques quite literally changed the game.

i guess now we're caught in a bullshit discussion about semantics, too. john would love this.

 

[maximus__]

Danaher would be diagnosed with autism and or ADHD in today's climate. He is just hyper focused on combat sports and it comes across when he talks.

 

[CinemaKingdom]

Everyone thinks John is so bright, he’s ok…

People who went to school and paid attention won’t be so impressed. All he did is bring an academic approach to his curriculum, something more educated people would do, had they simply chose BJJ as their focus.

Instead, they’re designing microchips, vaccines and studying fluid dynamics.

The best coach in the world is "ok" lol

 

[Coconutwater]

The best coach in the world is "ok" lol

He’s an elite coach, but he’s not Einstein the way the Sherdog community thinks he is. He’s an intelligent man surrounded by less than intelligent people.

 

[MoreKane]

Danaher is the GOAT BBJ mind though, he has to be at this point?

 

[rmongler]

He’s an elite coach, but he’s not Einstein the way the Sherdog community thinks he is. He’s an intelligent man surrounded by less than intelligent people.

If they're less than intelligent, that would make your grappling heroes a sack of rocks.

The poverty of petty spitefulness.