GSP's wrestling now that the Caucasians have taken over?

this thread is a bit much just to make the "Caucasion" joke
 
grimballer said:
well depends how you look at it

fitch was division 1, but didnt accomplish anything significant and finished his wrestling career with 45-51 record

hughes was also division 1, 2 times all american and had 80-15 wrestling record, however had a 35% tdd

shields was division 2 with 29% td and 35% tdd

koscheck was division 1 and 4 time all american so was hendricks

so outta all tbe wrestlers gsp faced kos and hendricks were probably the best
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Koscheck is super underrated around here. His blast double was legendary
 
Gsp is all timing, just like Dominick Cruz is (before, mostly). It doesnt matter if he cant grind on the cage, he doesnt need to. He was fast and had perfect setup with his striking. That is MMA wrestling at its absolute peak. Only thing crazier than his technique was that he didn't have any wrestling background, which I guess was good for him. Made him develop quite invincible mma wrestling/striking style.
 
KBE6EKCTAH_CCP said:
Yes I think that USA is # 2 in freestyle wrestling, i.e. a top, top tier nation.
If you look at the following results for freestyle wrestling, you can see that both USA and ROC have 5 medals, and ROC has 3 golds vs USA 2.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wrestling_at_the_2020_Summer_Olympics

And no, you cannot think in absolute value, lol. I think that all these ROC medalists are from the North Caucasus(mostly Dagestan but also North-Ossetia) so it is safe to say that on average, Caucasian wrestlers are leaps above anyone else.

Oh and you want more? The Belarusian silver medalist is originally from Dagestan. And if you add the Azerbaidjan and the Georgian medal, that's 8 medals out of 24 so one-third.
Yeah, one-third of medals come from peple born in the small region of the Caucasus. Oh and BTW it's usually the same shit in judo.
Caucasians are the best stand-up grapplers in the world, period.
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The key word in your sentence is average, and its likely true that the average Caucasus wrestler is better. However that's irrelevant, as in professional sport (like MMA) or elite amateur sport (like Olympics or World Championships) only the best from each country compete -- there simply are no average guys at that level. And in terms of elite (Olympics, UFC etc) there's very little difference between Caucasus and American wrestling results. GSP MMA wrestling against top level Americans is no different than if he'd been MMA wrestling against top Caucasus, because there's almost no difference between top Americans and top ROC (including Caucus) wrestlers -- the results of Olympics and World Championships show that.
 
AnotherOldGuy said:
The key word in your sentence is average, and its likely true that the average Caucasus wrestler is better. However that's irrelevant, as in professional sport (like MMA) or elite amateur sport (like Olympics or World Championships) only the best from each country compete -- there simply are no average guys at that level. And in terms of elite (Olympics, UFC etc) there's very little difference between Caucasus and American wrestling results. GSP MMA wrestling against top level Americans is no different than if he'd been MMA wrestling against top Caucasus, because there's almost no difference between top Americans and top ROC (including Caucus) wrestlers -- the results of Olympics and World Championships show that.
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I respect your POV
 
Look at the Goats in every weight class. Half of them are American wrestlers.
 
KBE6EKCTAH_CCP said:
not on my watch
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There are quite a few. If you look at the guys who came with Khabib to America. There are a bunch of strikers that went to Bellator who can fight but wrestling isn't their strong suit. Even in UFC off the top of my head; there is the former King of Sanda Muslim Salikhov. Wrestling is definitely not his strong suit.
 
The theory that UFC is just not signing American D1s anymore has a basis that can be checked against facts, or is it just a narrative like "the best HW athletes in USA go to the NFL so UFC fighters are rejects" that is not even verifiable?
 
NoSmilez said:
There are quite a few. If you look at the guys who came with Khabib to America. There are a bunch of strikers that went to Bellator who can fight but wrestling isn't their strong suit. Even in UFC off the top of my head; there is the former King of Sanda Muslim Salikhov. Wrestling is definitely not his strong suit.
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Of course. Kind of like Zabit, too. He has legit TDD and a few good trips up his sleeve but he is by no means a wrestler. What I mean is Dagestanis with wrestling as a base who can't wrestle.
 
KBE6EKCTAH_CCP said:
The theory that UFC is just not signing American D1s anymore has a basis that can be checked against facts, or is it just a narrative like "the best HW athletes in USA go to the NFL so UFC fighters are rejects" that is not even verifiable?
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See my post in other thread elite American D1 are making good sponsor money now, same reason no legitimate Russian national team wrestlers go into MMA only the rejects who were forced into sambo because they couldn't cut it in freestyle
 
D 1 Wrestler said:
See my post in other thread elite American D1 are making good sponsor money now, same reason no legitimate Russian national team wrestlers go into MMA only the rejects who were forced into sambo because they couldn't cut it in freestyle
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ok so according to you, MMA is the garbage can of combat athletes all around the world
 
Noraaq said:
Hendricks/Lawler was fought 99% of the fight on the feet with some half assed TD attempts from Hendricks to mix it up. Strange fight to reference when were discuissing elite MMA wrestling.

MMA 'wrestling' has evolved, its not just about the TD and then sitting in guard until your opponent gets back to their feet. These Dagestani guys are relentless in top position, passing guard, going for submissions, dishing out GnP.

How many finishes from top position does Hendricks have? genuinely curious here
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Uh, you know they fought more than once, right? Hendricks won their first fight with wrestling. You're just cherry-picking their second fight because it serves your argument, while conveniently ignoring their first fight. But if you want the real truth, then you tell the whole story not just the parts that fit your narrative.
 
KBE6EKCTAH_CCP said:
GSP is thought to possess the best MMA wrestling in history. But he fought in a time when all we saw was american folkstyle. I can't help but to find GSP's wrestling not so great when I compare it to Dagestanis and Chechens.

I think that GSP's wrestling was the best at the time due to his wrestling's Soviet lineage (Montreal wrestling club is essentially an eastern euro diaspora club) . But now that we have that Caucasian benchmark, how does it rank?
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DoubleTrouble said:
GSP was a very good wrestler but was his opposition that good ( MMA grappling wise)?
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GSP has fought better wrestlers/grapplers than any of these Caucus Region guys. Drastically better.

I'm not necessarily saying that automatically makes GSPs grappling superior, just that he is vastly more battle tested against high level opposition.
 
KBE6EKCTAH_CCP said:
Of course. Kind of like Zabit, too. He has legit TDD and a few good trips up his sleeve but he is by no means a wrestler. What I mean is Dagestanis with wrestling as a base who can't wrestle.
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Look more carefully. There are quite a few guys who are from the area and were sambo champions that burned out from the UFC. I think there is some fellow Omari from eagles MMA. Maybe more will come to me when the day gets going.
 
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