GSP's wrestling now that the Caucasians have taken over?

[Dan Torrance]

GSP is unique in that he relied on a bread and butter olympic/folkstle wrestling technique, the blast double but he used it in a way that he was never grinding for it.

Right, there's some guys that are like that, Dom Cruz, Fedor, Shevchenko. When they use grappling they rely heavily on momentum and timing rather than a grinding effort. Obviously, the best situation is someone that can do both but the momentum/ timing guys are more in tune with 'MMA grappling' than they are with 'wrestling' if that makes sense. Someone can be god tier at standing MMA grappling but average in wrestling because it's using muscles differently. The Wrestling/grinding style is more taxing on the body.

 

[JKS]

GSP would smoke em all.

 

[HunterAcosta]

GSP is unique in that he relied on a bread and butter olympic/folkstle wrestling technique, the blast double but he used it in a way that he was never grinding for it.

Right, there's some guys that are like that, Dom Cruz, Fedor, Shevchenko. When they use grappling they rely heavily on momentum and timing rather than a grinding effort. Obviously, the best situation is someone that can do both but the momentum/ timing guys are more in tune with 'MMA grappling' than they are with 'wrestling' if that makes sense. Someone can be god tier at standing MMA grappling but average in wrestling because it's using muscles differently. The Wrestling/grinding style is more taxing on the body.

Good analysis.

 

[NoSmilez]

They all have their strengths. GSP has a great reactive shot. He rarely fails on a timed shot. He is simple with double leg/knee tap to high crotch and back to double.

Khabib and Islam might not have the cleanest entries but they have trips and throws if the entry fails. Maybe a knock or benefit is that their strategy requires a wall. They might lose to someone who is a better wrestler in a circle but they are confident if it's a wall.

Someone like Khamzat avoids the wall for the takedowns or doesn't need it. He likes the takedown in the center. He sometimes would turn a corner to stay away from the wall but he does a lot of inefficient Matt Hughes type carries using a body lock face to face from one side of cage to other side of cage. It is a showmanship move but I am not sure if it will hurt if the fight goes long. His latest UFC fight he used back control to lift but the concept is same. He did it in a few fights in and out of the UFC.

 

[NoSmilez]

In case we forgot because of recency bias. GSP might not do as well when both people are bent over wrestling but his ability to time the shot is special in MMA.

 

[Karl_Hungus]

 

[Glendower]

GSP had to fight people who were juiced to the gills though.

 

[Sean Ryan]

Indeed. Some people need to flap their yaps and say heinous shit to get people to want to watch them lose. He did that by being really fucking good, which is my preference.

Yes absolutely. He made things more legitimate.

 

[ThunderStruck]

Lmao, again with the put down pissing contests <Lmaoo>

i did not bring up Kos and Shields to prove that GSP's wrestling failed, I brought them up because the above claim was GSP was the best MMA wrestler ever, which I disagreed with, and implied those two opponents were actually known for their wrestling, unlike many of the other opponents GSP out wrestler. Someone like Jones outwrestled DC, who was an Olympic wrestler, Khabib ragdolled D1 all American Gaethje and finished him on the ground. GSP does not have such a feather in his cap, that is my point.

"Against Hendricks the wrestling was a stalemate. Both scored the same amount of takedowns and both struggled to keep the other down. How did that expose GSP?"

That exposes him as not being the best MMA wrestler all time. A truly GOAT MMA wrestler would be able to outwrestle a guy like Hendricks. That fight, IMO, was a clear Hendricks win, the striking, clinch, damage, even if they were equal on TD's (TD's are just 1 tiny component of wrestling). Never said GSP was not an incredible MMA wrestler, just that he was not the best. And even he and Hendricks were even, would anyone consider Hendricks the best MMA wrestler of all time?

Do not buy the: "Hendricks refused to take PED tests either' - again, you expose your lack of knowledge: GSP wanted USADA, which we now know is corrupt and lets big stars like Jones have a certain set of rules, and Johnnie wanted WADA.

Taking 8th/6th placed NCAA Hughes down does not do it for me on the all time GOAT wrestler, nor does taking down Bisping, something many did. He also was getting so beat up from the bottom with Bisping that he had to stand up. A truly 'best wrestler ever' does not need to lay in guard and get bloodied up, they can pass and dominate from those positions, like we saw Khabib and Isla an am do, Usman do to Woodley, and are now seeing Chimaev do.....there is more to wrestling than takedowns, which is why I also expressly pointed out GSP's real strength was the timing on his takedowns, not the clinch game, passing game or chain wrestling game.

"Come back when Chimaev fights someone of the caliber of prime Hendricks."

You might want to check up who Aliskerov is and his grappling pedigree - aside from Khabib, he was the only Combat Sambo World Champ-Champ to enter in MMA recently, and did it at 191 pounds. I am not making the case that Chimaev is more accomplished than GSP, I am stating that the game moves (as GSP even said) and that fighters are getting better with time. We will see how far Chimaev makes on it, but I think he will be champion, and could even be champion today regardless of who he beat to prove it to you. The guy is rumored to get the better of HW Gus in the gym and is on video dropping him with a body shot.....that is not something that welterweights do, nm when they have a national champion wrestling pedigree behind them.

GSP outwrestled Hughes. And Kos. Those guys are FAR better mma wrestler than Gatje. You know shit about mma. Khabib never fought anyone with nearly as good wrestling as Kos. How can he be considered the best wrestler in mma? Jones wrestling feat is entirely based on taking down a severely gassed Cormier. Yet he got taken down twice by a pure striker in Gustavsson and couldn't take down his last two opponents (both strikers) despite numerous attempts. GSP took down great wrestlers at will. Hughes, Sherk, Trigg, Kos, Parysian (Judo). He took down guys with insane TDD at will (Penn, Alves, Bisping). His wrestling is proven way more than Khabib and Jones.

And lol at you saying i know nothing about the PED thing that got in between GSP and Hendricks when you say GSP wanted USADA testing lol. You spit a lot of bullshit for sure.

 

[NoBiasJustMMA]

GSP's wrestling still ranks high even against the fighters from the caucas region especially when it comes to takedowns. Prettier sure GSP's success rate is still higher than Khabib, Islam and Khamzat.

 

[Leoooo]

GSP was a very good wrestler but was his opposition that good ( MMA grappling wise)?

Ehhh. Let’s be real. What good opposition did any of the dagestanis/Chechen ever face in regards to grappling?? Khabib only fought one defensive grappler. Tibau made him look average at best. Got taken down, didn’t get one single takedown and got outstruck.
he only won cause he moved forward and the judges rewarded his aggression too much.

they all mainly fought strikers. Name ONE opponent, GSP wouldn’t have steamrolled and wrestleducked ..

 

[NoSmilez]

GSP's wrestling isn't that efficient outside of MMA since there are no very little openings to react to and both guys are bent over. Watch his training footage or grappling competition. He becomes very methodical counter wrestler or staller who waits for the right time. It is usually the other guy who attacks or starts the takedown attempts first

 

[AnotherOldGuy]

its frustrating knowing dana could have made the gsp khabib fight happen.

Then again, if gsp won, it would have been "the size difference" that was the rational for whatever happened.

GSP was almost 39 with one fight in seven years. As great as GSP was when he was young and active, by the time they were talking about GSP - Khaib, GSP was old and inactive -- it wouldn't have been a good fight at all. It was long past time to build up a new generation of fighters instead of cashing in on last chance money fights for guys whose day was done.

 

[aerius]

Was great, still great. When an Olympic wrestler who happens to be Khabib's teammate says GSP is the best MMA wrestler, who are we to argue?

 

[Jack Bauer]

GSP's wrestling isn't that efficient outside of MMA since there are no very little openings to react to and both guys are bent over. Watch his training footage or grappling competition. He becomes very methodical counter wrestler or staller who waits for the right time. It is usually the other guy who attacks or starts the takedown attempts first

He out grappled Otto Olsen at ADCC. So you are not quite accurate here.. Chael said he was out grappled as well in training. GSP can wrestle, but his striking and intelligence set him up to be the most successful takedown artist in mma history. Especially looking at the elite wrestler based opponents he made look like children.