International Hamas launches surprise attack on Israel; Israel has declared a state of war. Vol. VII

tastaylvr said:
Lol it’s cute that you have to defend him

This must cut you deep too huh

I would rather be an empty can than some loser who bites his tongue irl because he is too scared to speak his mind

Bottling your hatred away with the internet being the only place you can unleash your rage

Do you think I give a shit what you or some other weirdo thinks? I know where I stand. I stand true in my beliefs. I don’t change my personality for nobody. You can hide behind this facade of intelligence but at the end of the day you and other kid are outcasts of society thinking you are shunned because of your intelligence when in reality you are unlikable individuals. You can’t blame the world forever. Sometimes you need to take a hard look at yourself and ask why.
Click to expand...

<Waaah>
 
Blayt7hh said:
I don’t know if I believe that or not either, but how do they prove that to you?
Click to expand...

They didn't even explain how they arrived at the number. Just some vague claims they used intelligence and satellites. Not very convincing.
 
Hog-train said:
They didn't even explain how they arrived at the number. Just some vague claims they used intelligence and satellites. Not very convincing.
Click to expand...
The very nature of Hamas makes it impossible for anyone to know so no I dont believe their claim. I think they have a very rough estimate that can’t be fleshed out.

On the flip side, I don’t believe Hamas either. It’s in their best interest to make it look like they’re killing as many civilians as possible. I doubt the truth will ever be known
 
Blayt7hh said:
The very nature of Hamas makes it impossible for anyone to know so no I dont believe their claim. I think they have a very rough estimate that can’t be fleshed out.

On the flip side, I don’t believe Hamas either. It’s in their best interest to make it look like they’re killing as many civilians as possible. I doubt the truth will ever be known
Click to expand...

I think the IDF just made up some BS number. Just a little before it was 9K.

On the other hand, the Gazan Ministry of Health total death toll figures are:

1. Corroborated by other third parties.
2. We know the exactly how they got to the figures
3. And have been historically accurate in past conflicts. Even Israel has used the ministry's figures.
 
Last edited:
Hog-train said:
I think the IDF just made up some BS number. Just a little before it was 9K.

On the other hand, the Gazan Ministry of Health total death toll figures are:

1. Corroborated by other third parties.
2. We know the exactly how they got to the figures
3. And have been historically accurate in past conflicts. Even Israel has used the ministry's figures.
Click to expand...
What third party can corroborate the numbers or Hamas deaths? I’m extremely skeptical of that to say the least

I’m talking about Hamas deaths specifically. I do t believe for a second that they would accurately report that
 
Blayt7hh said:
What third party can corroborate the numbers or Hamas deaths? I’m extremely skeptical of that to say the least
Click to expand...

UN, Human Rights Watch, etc.

But the thing that convinces me is that Israel itself has always used the ministries figures in the past.

apnews.com

What is Gaza's Ministry of Health and how does it calculate the war's death toll?

The Gaza-based Ministry of Health — an agency in the Hamas-controlled government — continues to tally casualty numbers.
apnews.com apnews.com
 
Blayt7hh said:
What third party can corroborate the numbers or Hamas deaths? I’m extremely skeptical of that to say the least

I’m talking about Hamas deaths specifically. I do t believe for a second that they would accurately report that
Click to expand...

Statistically Impossible: A Critical Analysis of Hamas’s Women and Children Casualty Figures

How reliable are the casualty figures issued by the Hamas-run Gaza Health Ministry? The answer offered in this article is blunt: not reliable at all. The authors are Tom Simpson, a generalist economis...
fathomjournal.org fathomjournal.org
www.tabletmag.com

How the Gaza Ministry of Health Fakes Casualty Numbers

The evidence is in their own poorly fabricated figures
www.tabletmag.com www.tabletmag.com
www.jns.org

Hamas admits one-third of its data on Gazan deaths is ‘incomplete' - JNS.org

The acknowledgment raises anew questions about the veracity of the terrorist group's claims about the war.
www.jns.org www.jns.org
 

Israel still has no proof of Unrwa terrorist claims – but damage to aid agency is done​

Julian Borger in New York

Inquiry has not backed up allegations of ties to Hamas and Islamic Jihad, which led to loss of $450m as people died in droves

Unsupported Israeli allegations about Unrwa links to terrorism led major donors to cut $450m in funding to the main humanitarian agency working in Gaza at a time when people there were dying in droves.

Three months later, the situation has only worsened with the onset of a human-made famine on top of the bombing, the collapse of healthcare, the lack of water and a rise in epidemics. And despite a rigorous inquiry by the former French foreign minister Catherine Colonna, supported by three well-respected research institutes, there is still no evidence for the claim that significant numbers of Unrwa employees have Hamas or Islamic Jihad ties.

There is a separate review under way into specific claims Unrwa employees took part in the 7 October attack but that investigation is still not complete, UN officials say. The last time there was a progress report, however, Israel was still withholding cooperation.

The Colonna inquiry, which is a broader assessment of Unrwa neutrality, wrote to the Israeli authorities in March and then again in April asking for names and evidence behind Israeli claims of Hamas and Islamic Jihad ties.

Arguably, Israel did not need to cooperate as Unrwa’s donors proved themselves to be all too eager to cut off funding without seeing any evidence.

Most of the big country donors have since resumed the flow of funds. The UK has held back and Germany is only funding Unrwa operations outside Gaza. Although the trigger for the cut in funding was the allegations about 7 October, the UK and German governments have said they will take the Colonna report on the broader questions of integrity and neutrality into account when they review their positions.

For the US, formerly Unrwa’s biggest source of finance, it is too late. Congress has insisted US funding of the agency should not resume until March 2025 at the earliest.

There was an element of miscalculation and accident in how this funding crisis unfolded. On 18 January, the Unrwa commissioner general, Philippe Lazzarini, was summoned to the Israeli foreign ministry and presented with a list of a dozen Unrwa staff alleged to have taken part in the Hamas attack on 7 October in which 1,200 Israelis were killed.

Lazzarini checked the list and found that the 12 named men were or had been employees, though two of them had already died. There was no evidence to prove that the other 10 had played any role on 7 October but the commissioner general used his executive powers to fire them anyway, to protect Unrwa’s reputation and its operations in Gaza.

However, far from cauterising the problem, the dismissals heightened the misgivings of donor governments, who reasoned that the staff would not have been fired in the absence of a serious problem.

It is impossible to tell whether simply suspending the workers would ultimately have had the same effect, but the firings certainly triggered a rush for the door. Within a day of Lazzarini’s announcement, the first nine donors had suspended funding.

Those decisions were taken in an environment that Israel had cultivated over the years in which Unrwa was perceived as a captive of Hamas in Gaza, and it was that environment and those perceptions that the Colonna review was commissioned to address.

The final report recognises the challenges that the agency has faced, particularly since Hamas seized total control of Gaza in 2007. Almost all Unrwa staff are local in a system in which Hamas is the overwhelming political force in all walks of life.

The Colonna report credits Unrwa with significant efforts to maintain its neutrality in such challenging circumstances. Contrary to the image projected by Israel and its supporters of Unrwa schools being factories of antisemitic hate, the review looked at three independent assessments and found only two cases of antisemitic imagery or language, which had been edited or deleted.

Part of the vetting of Unrwa’s 13,000 staff in Gaza, the review explains, has involved handing the lists of its employees to Israel and the US, but the report noted Israel had not raised a concern about anyone on the list since 2011.

Colonna lists various ways in which Unrwa’s procedures could be made even more rigorous, but some of her recommendations involve Israel and the donors being more cooperative.

What emerges vividly from Colonna’s account is Israeli non-engagement both before and after 7 October. That reflects a widespread mindset in the Israeli political scene that Unrwa cannot be improved or reformed but only eliminated.

It is a political issue. The agency’s full name is the United Nations Relief and Works Agency for Palestine Refugees in the Near East. It reflects the fact that it was founded in the aftermath of the 1948 Israeli war of independence and its continued existence reflects the fact that all the problems left behind by that war remain unresolved.

The Palestinians displaced by that conflict, and the wars that followed, are still refugees, together with their descendants. That legal status, enshrined in Unrwa’s name and its continued operation, implies a right of return under international law, a right that can only be resolved by a comprehensive settlement.

Until then, Unrwa is a reminder to Israel of its obligations as an occupying power, and to some Israelis it is therefore an enemy to be eliminated, no matter what the cost in Palestinian lives.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...aff-links-to-terrorism-cost-aid-agency-dearly
 
LeonardoBjj said:

Israel still has no proof of Unrwa terrorist claims – but damage to aid agency is done​

Julian Borger in New York

Inquiry has not backed up allegations of ties to Hamas and Islamic Jihad, which led to loss of $450m as people died in droves

Unsupported Israeli allegations about Unrwa links to terrorism led major donors to cut $450m in funding to the main humanitarian agency working in Gaza at a time when people there were dying in droves.

Three months later, the situation has only worsened with the onset of a human-made famine on top of the bombing, the collapse of healthcare, the lack of water and a rise in epidemics. And despite a rigorous inquiry by the former French foreign minister Catherine Colonna, supported by three well-respected research institutes, there is still no evidence for the claim that significant numbers of Unrwa employees have Hamas or Islamic Jihad ties.

There is a separate review under way into specific claims Unrwa employees took part in the 7 October attack but that investigation is still not complete, UN officials say. The last time there was a progress report, however, Israel was still withholding cooperation.

The Colonna inquiry, which is a broader assessment of Unrwa neutrality, wrote to the Israeli authorities in March and then again in April asking for names and evidence behind Israeli claims of Hamas and Islamic Jihad ties.

Arguably, Israel did not need to cooperate as Unrwa’s donors proved themselves to be all too eager to cut off funding without seeing any evidence.

Most of the big country donors have since resumed the flow of funds. The UK has held back and Germany is only funding Unrwa operations outside Gaza. Although the trigger for the cut in funding was the allegations about 7 October, the UK and German governments have said they will take the Colonna report on the broader questions of integrity and neutrality into account when they review their positions.

For the US, formerly Unrwa’s biggest source of finance, it is too late. Congress has insisted US funding of the agency should not resume until March 2025 at the earliest.

There was an element of miscalculation and accident in how this funding crisis unfolded. On 18 January, the Unrwa commissioner general, Philippe Lazzarini, was summoned to the Israeli foreign ministry and presented with a list of a dozen Unrwa staff alleged to have taken part in the Hamas attack on 7 October in which 1,200 Israelis were killed.

Lazzarini checked the list and found that the 12 named men were or had been employees, though two of them had already died. There was no evidence to prove that the other 10 had played any role on 7 October but the commissioner general used his executive powers to fire them anyway, to protect Unrwa’s reputation and its operations in Gaza.

However, far from cauterising the problem, the dismissals heightened the misgivings of donor governments, who reasoned that the staff would not have been fired in the absence of a serious problem.

It is impossible to tell whether simply suspending the workers would ultimately have had the same effect, but the firings certainly triggered a rush for the door. Within a day of Lazzarini’s announcement, the first nine donors had suspended funding.

Those decisions were taken in an environment that Israel had cultivated over the years in which Unrwa was perceived as a captive of Hamas in Gaza, and it was that environment and those perceptions that the Colonna review was commissioned to address.

The final report recognises the challenges that the agency has faced, particularly since Hamas seized total control of Gaza in 2007. Almost all Unrwa staff are local in a system in which Hamas is the overwhelming political force in all walks of life.

The Colonna report credits Unrwa with significant efforts to maintain its neutrality in such challenging circumstances. Contrary to the image projected by Israel and its supporters of Unrwa schools being factories of antisemitic hate, the review looked at three independent assessments and found only two cases of antisemitic imagery or language, which had been edited or deleted.

Part of the vetting of Unrwa’s 13,000 staff in Gaza, the review explains, has involved handing the lists of its employees to Israel and the US, but the report noted Israel had not raised a concern about anyone on the list since 2011.

Colonna lists various ways in which Unrwa’s procedures could be made even more rigorous, but some of her recommendations involve Israel and the donors being more cooperative.

What emerges vividly from Colonna’s account is Israeli non-engagement both before and after 7 October. That reflects a widespread mindset in the Israeli political scene that Unrwa cannot be improved or reformed but only eliminated.

It is a political issue. The agency’s full name is the United Nations Relief and Works Agency for Palestine Refugees in the Near East. It reflects the fact that it was founded in the aftermath of the 1948 Israeli war of independence and its continued existence reflects the fact that all the problems left behind by that war remain unresolved.

The Palestinians displaced by that conflict, and the wars that followed, are still refugees, together with their descendants. That legal status, enshrined in Unrwa’s name and its continued operation, implies a right of return under international law, a right that can only be resolved by a comprehensive settlement.

Until then, Unrwa is a reminder to Israel of its obligations as an occupying power, and to some Israelis it is therefore an enemy to be eliminated, no matter what the cost in Palestinian lives.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...aff-links-to-terrorism-cost-aid-agency-dearly
Click to expand...

Another scumbag move by the Israeli government.

Another time where their claims were taken at face value despite a complete lack of evidence.

A common theme throughout this conflict, unfortunately.
 
A foreign intelligence agency threatening American citizens and residents for engaging in first ammendment protected activities.

Totally normal stuff.

 
Phisher said:
A foreign intelligence agency threatening American citizens and residents for engaging in first ammendment protected activities.

Totally normal stuff.

Click to expand...

Threatening them with what? Reality?

Love to see the looks on the law student's faces when they start applying to places like the "Law Offices of Schwartz, Stone, and Bernstein", LOL.
 
Phisher said:
A foreign intelligence agency threatening American citizens and residents for engaging in first ammendment protected activities.

Totally normal stuff.

Click to expand...


www.euronews.com

Israel-Hamas war: Fake Mossad account creates online confusion

Since the start of the war between Israel and Hamas, fake accounts have been popping up impersonating government entities. The latest one causing confusion and spreading disinformation is one pretending to be the Israeli national intelligence agency, Mossad. #TheCube
www.euronews.com www.euronews.com

Fake account, it would seem.

Good ol' Elon!
 
The_Renaissance said:
This is why I have zero empathy for the Palestinians. At BEST they agreed with 07/10. At best. At worst, they participated. You don't get to hate someone and dance around and gloat their pain, then moan about being victims when the hammer swings back.

And you can say well 07/10 was retaliation.


Fair enough. I'm from Wales. Read up on what the English did to Wales. If a few hundred Welsh terrorists entered England and did 07/10 to them and I celebrated it and called for more. I can't complain if England walks over the border and annihilates us.

Sometimes you just aren't big or hard enough. It's that simple.
Click to expand...
Under this insane logic, then the people that died in 9/11 should get no sympathy. It's a view completely detached from morality, the reality of modern politics, modern warfare, and the history of the conflict.

It's the exact same logic of Osama Bin Laden and militants in Hamas.
"There is no such thing as an innocent Israeli/Palestinian/American because AT BEST they either agreed with the actions of their state, were ignorant of what they were supporting, or simply didn't care.
At worst, they participated directly, donated and/or voted for people/policies that would cause destruction in our country."
 
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