How would Cormier vs Prime Fedor go down?

[sylvalant]

Cormier beats anyone not named Jon Jones. Prime Fedor had mediocre chin as proven in the Fujita fight, which only worsened as he got older. One hard punch from Cormier and he's dropped. Fedor also isn't outwrestling DC at all.

 

[thobra]

DC isn't "a wrestler". He's thrown around guys like Barnett and Henderson as if they were children. And at HW has legit KO power and has only been finished by Jon Jones.

Of course he is a wrestler. Brock Lesnar also threw submission specialists like Frank Mir around, And had a strong punch.

DC is not Brock Lesnar, but he is a 90% wrestler. Sambo world champs match up very well with wrestlers, as we will also see in Khabib.

 

[Problem Child]

I’d say it goes down with Fedor on his back..The end.

 

[Dr Guildo]

Interesting matchup. I would favor Fedor of course since he can grapple but Daniel Cormier would be tough.

It could end fast as well since Fedor is a lot faster and has the power.

 

[NoSmilez]

Fedor's Judo isn't going to throw DC around. You can make a case for Fedor handling Coleman/Randleman but those two didn't have issues taking him down. They are old UFC guys that never settled down in one gym to train. They bounced from gym to gym. I don't believe DC is going to get subbed by armbar in guard. It's a move we don't see that much anymore in MMA.

 

[moreorless87]

Fedor's Judo isn't going to throw DC around. You can make a case for Fedor handling Coleman/Randleman but those two didn't have issues taking him down. They are old UFC guys that never settled down in one gym to train. They bounced from gym to gym. I don't believe DC is going to get subbed by armbar in guard. It's a move we don't see that much anymore in MMA.

Part of the reason we don't see it much though is that very few fighters have the skill level needed to pull it off and indeed fewer fighters willing to fight off of their backs. I mean Fedor himself was obviously capable to changing to more US tactics as well, look at he second Coleman fight were he shut down his wrestling and beat him up all the first round.

People would say that skill levels have advanced but Jon Jones almost got subbed by Vitor in exactly the same way Fedor subbed Coleman in the rematch, indeed had that been Fedor I don't think he'd have escaped.

 

[Mike]

He couldn't even KO Nog something Cain and even Mir was able to do

 

[josh345]

Both guys are capable of beating each other. In a five round fight I think Fedor could eventually get a finish.

 

[PancraseForever]

The grappling really makes this very hard to predict IMHO, the only strong sub guy DC has ever fought was Barnett and he's not that great from his back.

Besides that I suspect Fedor's cardio might be the key fector, he showed a good body kick to beat Fujita as well which is IMHO DC's biggest weakness standing.

True...

Weird fight to predict. Fedor is generally weak to wrestlers (Arona), yet reversed D1 Randleman with ease, moments after being suplexed onto his head. Also he has very high level submission grappling... SAMBO isn't exactly the same as BJJ, but it IS grappling heavy, and he was at the equivalent level in SAMBO that Roger Gracie is in BJJ.

 

[Haj01]

Black Fedor 8/10 times. The other 2 white Fedor by armbar after being taken down.

Whilst I hate to admit it DC is better than Fedor ever was.

 

[SherdogFan23]

He was 33-34 years old when he got smoked by those guys. DC would woop prime fedor at his current age. This isn't about Fedor being some sort of can it's just that DC is a fucking monster.

I don't dislike him, but DC is way over-rated in my view. If he was going up against a bigger group of younger HW's he would not be champion. If you look at his complete HW portfolio, it has a lot of decision wins. Even Brock Lesnar was able to finish Frank Mir. He couldn't finish Anderson Silva even with his grappling skills (which is Silva's biggest weakness). Fedor had a much higher finish rate. Fedor also fought a lot more fights per year in his prime (which was more risky).

Prime Fedor would easily out grapple and finish DC.

 

[TeenageMutantLesnarTurtle]

I think Fedor stays active on the ground when DC gets him down, gets back to his feet often and gets the better of DC standing. Decision win for Fedor.

 

[WARinsertname]

Prime for prime I would favor Fedor 60/40 over DC.

DC has wrestling, but Fedor was no slouch against wrestlers. Striking would almost be completely in Fedor's favor. His punches and kicks, mixed in with his sambo/judo takedowns in case his misses on a winger made him a different animal.

He could seamlessly transition from strikes to grappling and back without losing ground.

His style heavily relies on speed and powerful hip movement. In his prime he had that in spades.

If they were to fight now, I would favor DC heavily because he doesn't have nearly the wear of years of fighting on his body. You know the man is healthy because he barely gets injured for a guy training at AKA.lol

 

[moreorless87]

True...

Weird fight to predict. Fedor is generally weak to wrestlers (Arona), yet reversed D1 Randleman with ease, moments after being suplexed onto his head. Also he has very high level submission grappling... SAMBO isn't exactly the same as BJJ, but it IS grappling heavy, and he was at the equivalent level in SAMBO that Roger Gracie is in BJJ.

Arona of course is one of the best top control guys ever but besides that I think Fedor was still very green in that match, he was doing stuff like grabbing chokes that might work in sambo where you only have limited grappling time but put him in a bad position with longer MMA grappling if he fail to get them.

 

[kflo]

Why would Wrestlers do combat Sambo? Wrestling is a big part of Sambo And Combat Sambo.

You obviously think DC is some high level submission prodigy, so I guess you think he is a better grappler than anyone Fedor fought? Fedor has fought better grapplers And just as good Wrestlers, And beat them all.

He beat grapplers he could control where the fight took place and he beat wrestlers who weren’t nearly as trained in submission grappling as Cormier (or as good striking). And lol, nice spin - I never claimed dc was a prodigy....just that he has put a lot of time on the mat training bjj.

I was asking how combat sambo makes you comfortable with high level wrestlers..

 

[heavy_hands]

as an old school fan I have to go with Fedor, but it would be a good one. I think people tend to forget how fast and powerful he was.

 

[kflo]

As I said I think Coleman especially has a rep coloured quite strongly by his fights with Nog and Fedor as someone who was very easy to sub, I think you need to consider the quality of his opposition. I mean on Randleman's side if he was THAT bad then you'd have expected fighters like say Nakamura to find it much easier to put him away.

Werdum is also the same guy who couldn't really do anything to a prime Sergei or Nog in Pride so I think representing him as some big shift in ability from that era is questionable, moreso I think Fedor devolved as a grappler becoming more wreckless and less fast/powerful. You look at say the difference between the first Nog fight and Werdum, hurts both opponents early, follows to the ground but looks to control Nog before opening up with GnP when its safer to do so, goes crazy vs Werdum unloading when its clearly not safe dispite a warning.

I'd agree you didn't really have a fighter like DC around in Pride but moreso I think you don't have fighters like you had in Pride around today at HW.

He didn’t at all “go crazy” on werdum.

And again, it’s common sense that dc would be far superior on the mat with submissions than Coleman or randlman.

And werdum wasn’t just the “same guy”. He clearly got better...

 

[Natural Order]

It's a 50/50 for sure. There's a reason Cormier was once referred to as Black Fedor.
Very similar skillsets from an all-round perspective.

 

[kflo]

Prime for prime I would favor Fedor 60/40 over DC.

DC has wrestling, but Fedor was no slouch against wrestlers. Striking would almost be completely in Fedor's favor. His punches and kicks, mixed in with his sambo/judo takedowns in case his misses on a winger made him a different animal.

He could seamlessly transition from strikes to grappling and back without losing ground.

His style heavily relies on speed and powerful hip movement. In his prime he had that in spades.

If they were to fight now, I would favor DC heavily because he doesn't have nearly the wear of years of fighting on his body. You know the man is healthy because he barely gets injured for a guy training at AKA.lol

I don’t understand why people don’t think dc wrestling for as long and at as high a level as he did wasn’t taxing on his body. Fedor didn’t get concussed much through his early 30s, which is what really impacts guys ability to take damage.

 

[PancraseForever]

He beat grapplers he could control where the fight took place and he beat wrestlers who weren’t nearly as trained in submission grappling as Cormier (or as good striking). And lol, nice spin - I never claimed dc was a prodigy....just that he has put a lot of time on the mat training bjj.

I was asking how combat sambo makes you comfortable with high level wrestlers..

Combat SAMBO definitely isn't BJJ but at the same time it's similar in that there's a LOT of submission grappling. Fedor reached the absolute highest level in SAMBO, like Roger Gracie in BJJ.

Depends how much stock you put into SAMBO's submission grappling credentials I guess... But I would think without question that prime Fedor's submission grappling is many, many, many leagues above Cormier's... The fact he stopped grappling almost entirely despite it being what made him great, probably says something about his body's ability to physically handle grappling.