Economy Intel Corp To Lead DoD US Manufacturing Initiative (+TSMC's American Mega-Factory / Industrial Park)

[Deorum]

@ElKarlo

I think I quoted you in the meme thread with this (?), but the TSMC Arizona fabs are getting built as part of a massive industrial tech park that is just as big as the Hsinchu site in Taiwan where all of their production is currently based. This is why there was no fucking way they were ever going to throw up 1 factory and call it a day on their North American expansion.

I marked it in red.

^ The Intel campus is on the very bottom right corner of the map, shaped like Idaho; still lots of room to build and that is where the two new fabs for IFS are going up next to the other four. The building on the top-center is a Northrop Grumman rocket facility. <45>

 

[Deorum]

That flew under the radar so hard. Basically China bought the IP of ARM for 775 million. Man we let them play games with us and we don’t care. hopefully the IP becomes obsolete soon
Thanks for the links

They will use the IP to design their own ICs - their x86 shit is inferior with 0% market share - but they still don't possess the capital equipment to actually produce them. This has been the thing the entire time, the machinery to manufacture the chips is more complex than the chips themselves.

It seems counterintuitive, but we have reached the point where manufacturing semiconductors on the bleeding edge is far more difficult than engineering them. It is heavy industry and extreme tech that stretches the limits of what is physically possible.

So why doesn't China produce their own capital machinery? Well, they're trying and the names and efforts of these "upstarts" is known so there won't be any surprises. They're at least 15 years away from achieving what the likes of ASML, AMAT, TEL are producing right now, and those corps aren't going to just sit still until 2035.

 

[PEB]

i mean... sure, maybe. if it's on tsmc's 3nm process. which only opens up a different can of worms...

I think Intel,IBM and Global Foundries are being pushed into each others arms to move to next levels of chip densities. IBM I believe has already been manufacturing 2nm chip in the lab. There is a company in Connecticut has been building advanced EUV equipment with IBM labs in New York. The US wants more US involvement and Intel owns patents that ASML uses in manufacturing their chips. TSMC is pretty tightly tied to ASML so it makes sense reports that TSMC spend almost 200 million to ship their advance EUV equipment to the US given recent moves by Chinese government taking ARM technology pretty much without ARM holdings approval. TSMC likely believes Taiwan never been in more danger so the race is on for more advance chips. As far as I know IBM plans on bring it to production by 2024 or 2025. This Connecticut based company obviously can with Government's help compete with the Giant ASML at least with extreme UL hardware manufacturing.


https://www.anandtech.com/show/16656/ibm-creates-first-2nm-chip


"
Every decade is the decade that tests the limits of Moore’s Law, and this decade is no different. With the arrival of Extreme Ultra Violet (EUV) technology, the intricacies of multipatterning techniques developed on previous technology nodes can now be applied with the finer resolution that EUV provides. That, along with other more technical improvements, can lead to a decrease in transistor size, enabling the future of semiconductors. To that end, Today IBM is announcing it has created the world’s first 2 nanometer node chip.

Names for Nodes
Just to clarify here, while the process node is being called ‘2 nanometer’, nothing about transistor dimensions resembles a traditional expectation of what 2nm might be. In the past, the dimension used to be an equivalent metric for 2D feature size on the chip, such as 90nm, 65nm, and 40nm. However with the advent of 3D transistor design with FinFETs and others, the process node name is now an interpretation of an ‘equivalent 2D transistor’ design.

Some of the features on this chip are likely to be low single digits in actual nanometers, such as transistor fin leakage protection layers, but it’s important to note the disconnect in how process nodes are currently named. Often the argument pivots to transistor density as a more accurate metric, and this is something that IBM is sharing with us."

TSMC also announced they are increasing their planned investment to over 100 billion US to likely compete with Intel recent moves.
https://theloadstar.com/taiwans-tsmc-to-charters-boxship-to-deliver-semiconductor-components-to-us/

 

[rob mafia]

I think Intel,IBM and Global Foundries are being pushed into each others arms to move to next levels of chip densities.

of course, you do.

 

[Deorum]

I think Intel,IBM and Global Foundries are being pushed into each others arms to move to next levels of chip densities. IBM I believe has already been manufacturing 2nm chip in the lab. There is a company in Connecticut has been building advanced EUV equipment with IBM labs in New York. The US wants more US involvement and Intel owns patents that ASML uses in manufacturing their chips. TSMC is pretty tightly tied to ASML so it makes sense reports that TSMC spend almost 200 million to ship their advance EUV equipment to the US given recent moves by Chinese government taking ARM technology pretty much without ARM holdings approval. TSMC likely believes Taiwan never been in more danger so the race is on for more advance chips. As far as I know IBM plans on bring it to production by 2024 or 2025. This Connecticut based company obviously can with Government's help compete with the Giant ASML at least with extreme UL hardware manufacturing.


https://www.anandtech.com/show/16656/ibm-creates-first-2nm-chip


"
Every decade is the decade that tests the limits of Moore’s Law, and this decade is no different. With the arrival of Extreme Ultra Violet (EUV) technology, the intricacies of multipatterning techniques developed on previous technology nodes can now be applied with the finer resolution that EUV provides. That, along with other more technical improvements, can lead to a decrease in transistor size, enabling the future of semiconductors. To that end, Today IBM is announcing it has created the world’s first 2 nanometer node chip.

Names for Nodes
Just to clarify here, while the process node is being called ‘2 nanometer’, nothing about transistor dimensions resembles a traditional expectation of what 2nm might be. In the past, the dimension used to be an equivalent metric for 2D feature size on the chip, such as 90nm, 65nm, and 40nm. However with the advent of 3D transistor design with FinFETs and others, the process node name is now an interpretation of an ‘equivalent 2D transistor’ design.

Some of the features on this chip are likely to be low single digits in actual nanometers, such as transistor fin leakage protection layers, but it’s important to note the disconnect in how process nodes are currently named. Often the argument pivots to transistor density as a more accurate metric, and this is something that IBM is sharing with us."

TSMC also announced they are increasing their planned investment to over 100 billion US to likely compete with Intel recent moves.
https://theloadstar.com/taiwans-tsmc-to-charters-boxship-to-deliver-semiconductor-components-to-us/

Pat is clearly waiting on Congress to lock in and secure federal subsidies - which is not something the US government typically provides to the industry - before Intel formally announces and goes through with their mega-fab plans. They've committed a pretty large amount on capex this year already regardless.

 

[Deorum]

TSMC also announced they are increasing their planned investment to over 100 billion US to likely compete with Intel recent moves.

https://theloadstar.com/taiwans-tsmc-to-charters-boxship-to-deliver-semiconductor-components-to-us/

Who knew such a significant amount was going to be thrown down on US production? lol. I don't believe they are putting up six fabs by 2024 though, no fucking way. There will be two IMO, the originally planned $12bn 5 nanometer fab as well as another dedicated to 3nm production that is going to cost around $23 billion fucking dollars -- more than double the adjusted cost of the Palo Verde nuclear power plant, the second largest generating station in the US outright. It also brings the Phase 1 capex perfectly in line with the reported $35 billion figure. TSMC apparently has three separate phases planned based on city documents and there is room to build at least four more factories beyond that, but I expect them to be spaced out over the next 10 years and run parallel with process tech advancements.

 

[Deorum]

I keep reading and seeing on things on Intel.

Time to make an investment?

If you believe they can hit all the production targets they've laid out for the next four years. They may just end up going bankrupt tho: 140 BILLION DONG!

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/arti...illion-in-a-month-to-meet-vietnam-virus-rules

Intel Corp has spent 140 billion dong in just one month to meet strict Vietnamese anti-virus mandates for factories in Ho Chi Minh City to ensure it can keep operations going.

The costs include providing sleeping accommodations for workers, according to Ho Thi Thu Uyen, head of external affairs for Intel in Vietnam and Malaysia. Intel Vietnam has had to cover the costs of hotel rooms and daily virus tests for thousands of workers, both its own employees and those of its suppliers.

Intel, which operates a test and assembly plant in the Saigon Hi-Tech Park, is asking the city government to allow employees who test negative for the virus and live in areas of the city considered safe zones to commute to work from home in transportation provided by the company. It is also requesting the local government provide a second vaccine dose to its Ho Chi Minh City employees after giving them their first shot earlier, she added.

Intel paid to house 1,870 of its workers in four-and five-star hotels -- plus bonuses -- and for some rooms in less expensive hotels for 1,500 employees of its suppliers, Uyen said.

 

[Deorum]

The US wants more US involvement and Intel owns patents that ASML uses in manufacturing their chips. TSMC is pretty tightly tied to ASML so it makes sense reports that TSMC spend almost 200 million to ship their advance EUV equipment to the US given recent moves by Chinese government taking ARM technology pretty much without ARM holdings approval. TSMC likely believes Taiwan never been in more danger so the race is on for more advance chips.

 

[Deorum]

You can take this to the bank Intel will be slapping AMD silly with their chips by 2023 I know Pat he is a driven technical guy and is bring back a number of guys some I knew working for EMC. They know how to design chips and squeeze performance out of technology. Many worked for Altera and risc chips with Jim Keller at DEC some went with him to Apple. Many came over from Israel and worked on low power chips for EMC back in the 90's and worked with Broadcom on their fiber channel chips. These guys have decades of experience and will likely work just a few years at Intel to get their stuff working.

Ultimately, they roll as one given the potential looming challenge to x86 dominance over the pc and server chip markets. Intel looks sort of ridiculous in the present but IFS will probably prove to be a prudent stroke of survival in the long term. There is an existential crisis on the horizon for fabless chipmakers as every major tech giant has moved to acquire and poach talent to design their own in-house ICs, essentially cutting the suppliers out of their own industry. Yet absolutely none of them have the slightest interest in attempting to mount their own fabrication plant operations.

There isn't any reason to believe Intel won't correct its manufacturing woes over the course of the next several years with the pressure of it being directly tied to their own product rollout temporarily cleared off their shoulders. In the meantime, it can simultaneously place an intensive level of focus on R&D, expanding production capacity and gearing up for High-NA EUV in 2025. The global foundry market is also poised to grow indefinitely and it isn't difficult to imagine contract chip manufacturing becoming a major business unit for Intel in the 2030s and beyond.

 

[ElKarlo]

They will use the IP to design their own ICs - their x86 shit is inferior with 0% market share - but they still don't possess the capital equipment to actually produce them. This has been the thing the entire time, the machinery to manufacture the chips is more complex than the chips themselves.

It seems counterintuitive, but we have reached the point where manufacturing semiconductors on the bleeding edge is far more difficult than engineering them. It is heavy industry and extreme tech that stretches the limits of what is physically possible.

So why doesn't China produce their own capital machinery? Well, they're trying and the names and efforts of these "upstarts" is known so there won't be any surprises. They're at least 15 years away from achieving what the likes of ASML, AMAT, TEL are producing right now, and those corps aren't going to just sit still until 2035.

Wow I didn’t realize they were that far away from among their own machines. I’m sure they’d re on it like they were on their ball pen plan years ago. But this will take many more layers to succeed

 

[ElKarlo]

@ElKarlo

I think I quoted you in the meme thread with this (?), but the TSMC Arizona fabs are getting built as part of a massive industrial tech park that is just as big as the Hsinchu site in Taiwan where all of their production is currently based. This is why there was no fucking way they were ever going to throw up 1 factory and call it a day on their North American expansion.

I marked it in red.

^ The Intel campus is on the very bottom right corner of the map, shaped like Idaho; still lots of room to build and that is where the two new fabs for IFS are going up next to the other four. The building on the top-center is a Northrop Grumman rocket facility. <45>

Yeah I saw they walked when you quoted me

what’s nuts is that there is no way that this property wasn’t bought 2 years ago or more. Going through permitting and all that means their name or their subsidiary’s name was on there somewhere. Friggin reporters
NG rocket facility will be a big customer for sure.
I wonder what else this will attract? As some designers may want to go the factory quickly and easily. So maybe some high tech developers or what have you will move in too?

 

[Deorum]

NG rocket facility will be a big customer for sure. I wonder what else this will attract? As some designers may want to go the factory quickly and easily. So maybe some high tech developers or what have you will move in too?

Yeah, NG actually has three different sites scattered around the PHX metro area already: the launch vehicles division next to the Intel campus in that image, a satellite manufacturing facility, and an armament operations center.

 

[ElKarlo]

Yeah, NG actually has three different sites scattered around the PHX metro area already: the launch vehicles division next to the Intel campus in that image, a satellite manufacturing facility, and an armament operations center.

Dang. Then basically you’ll get other defense and space companies coming

I’ve always been wondering if I should put some money in individual apartment buildings. There are sites that do that. Putting money into Arizona would make sense given this

 

[Deorum]

what’s nuts is that there is no way that this property wasn’t bought 2 years ago or more. Going through permitting and all that means their name or their subsidiary’s name was on there somewhere.

The city went directly to TSMC's headquarters to court them. The Mayor along with reps from both the Commerce Authority and Greater Phoenix Economic Council all traveled to Taiwan several times and then TSMC started sending delegations to Phoenix. A few of them became friends and threw birthday parties together (serious, lol). A 3,500 acre site of undeveloped land was rezoned for the purpose of creating a science and technology park.

TSMC committed an initial $12 billion investment to build a factory on it and bought up 1,130 acres of the park, which tipped the hand that they would be building more than one. The city agreed to cover $205 million for water infrastructure, wastewater improvements and a couple miles worth of new roads. The site broke ground a couple months ago and TSMC has since tripled down on capex to bring the Phase 1 spending to almost $36 billion, with two more phases on the development plan.

It's probably going to be around $100 billion by the time they're finished, with a dedicated American-based R&D center and at least six factories on the site.

 

[Deleted member 405583]

The city went directly to TSMC's headquarters to court them. The Mayor along with reps from both the Commerce Authority and Greater Phoenix Economic Council all traveled to Taiwan several times and then TSMC started sending delegations to Phoenix. A few of them became friends and threw birthday parties together (serious, lol). A 3,500 acre site of undeveloped land was rezoned for the purpose of creating a science and technology park.

TSMC committed an initial $12 billion investment to build a factory on it and bought up 1,130 acres of the park, which tipped the hand that they would be building more than one. The city agreed to cover $205 million for water infrastructure, wastewater improvements and a couple miles worth of new roads. The site broke ground a couple months ago and TSMC has since tripled down on capex to bring the Phase 1 spending to almost $36 billion, with two more phases on the development plan.

It's probably going to be around $100 billion by the time they're finished, with a dedicated American-based R&D center and at least six factories on the site.

Luff ya!!!

 

[Deorum]

Luff ya!!!

My threads don't get much conversation.

 

[Deleted member 405583]

My threads don't get much conversation.

You're too smart for sherdog.

 

[Graves The Elder]

Extremely detailed, elaborate analysis IMO.

In other news, Israel announced it will open up high traffic port of Haifa to be Chinese run in an 'effort to boost Israeli trade'.
Israel opens Chinese-run terminal at Haifa port - Al-Monitorhttps://www.al-monitor.com › originals › 2021/09 › isr...
Clearly, Israel has seen the writing on the wall and understands the US is led by idiots and is shifting it's alliances to China for the future.
Of course, US officials are dismayed by this and have voiced concerns to Israel but the latter has ignored entreaties,
This on the heels of news that China wants to mine all that lithium in Afghanistan means
Chinese influence is broadening rapidly in the Middle East.
They will not fail like Russia and the US did.
China is systematic and determined.
How China may benefit from Afghanistan's estimated $3 trillionhttps://www.marketwatch.com › story › how-china-may-b...
They will not be denied IMO.

 

[Graves The Elder]

Meanwhile the US is preoccupied with huge murals of dead convicts, slogans painted on city streets and overpaid, infantile and narcissistic sports celebrities and Instagram 'influencers'.

 

[Deorum]

You're too smart for sherdog.