Is Muhammad Ali the Michael Jordan of Boxing?

I think it depends on your age. Ali was big in the 60's (understatement) and 70's. I know my mum recognised Ali as the greatest but is probably only half aware that Jordan was one of the greatest basketballers ever. Jordan was big in the late 80's and then 90's, so it makes sense that he get more recent online traffic about him than Ali. If the two were to burst on to the scene today I just feel Ali would have a greater impact even though boxing is not as popular as it was in Ali's time.
 
I think it depends on your age. Ali was big in the 60's (understatement) and 70's. I know my mum recognised Ali as the greatest but is probably only half aware that Jordan was one of the greatest basketballers ever. Jordan was big in the late 80's and then 90's, so it makes sense that he get more recent online traffic about him than Ali. If the two were to burst on to the scene today I just feel Ali would have a greater impact even though boxing is not as popular as it was in Ali's time.
that's a big reason i don't understand why people want to compare like that. The world changes, generations die, media advances. It's like comparing Elvis to Michael Jackson, pointless for so many reasons. Both were the same for their era but so different in so many ways it's pointless to compare but I guess it's also unavoidable. How can you compare an era (the 80's) when you had mtv and the burgeoning cable industry with an era where they had only 3 stations? (the 50's). As dynamic a performer as Elvis was, it's hard to believe but I once read that there wasn't even a couple hours of live footage from his 50's peak. No comparison to today when every limo trip is filmed and celebs will often talk with anyone who has a camera.
 
Nobody said that Ali wasn't a cultural icon that transcended his sport. Both transcended their respective sport in their own way. They took polar opposite approaches. If you don't like the data that I linked then counter it. Use any metric you like in the Ali vs MJ comparison. I'll accept the combined social media following metric and Google Trends data. MJ has Ali beat regardless of which metric you use. Check your emotions at the door and show me the data or shut up.

Holy crap imagine using social media as a historic gauge on cultural significance. This is so idiotic I don't even know where to begin. According to your logic, the Kardashians and Bieber are historically the most significant global cultural icons of all time.

Back to reality. Its idiotic to use those metrics for a figure that pre dates the internet and social media, so your metric is irrelevant.

Again, they had completely different approaches. They were polar opposites in that regard. MJ transcending his sport isn't even up for debate. He did. Go read the paper at Harvard about it. I'm sure you know more than the scholars and academics in higher education lol. Ali's and MJ's global impact has been studied.


No. MJ has been the most recognizable athlete on earth since the 90s. It's worldwide, not an American thing, not just a basketball thing. This has already been explained and it really shouldn't need to be. Here's MJ receiving the Presidential Medal of Freedom award (the highest civilian honor in the land). Ali received it too (from George W. Bush). During the award ceremony it's mentioned that MJ transcended his sport. It's not even up for debate, as I said.

Yes they did have completely different approaches. MJ was solely focused and limited to sport and money, while Ali transcended sport into politics which had a far greater and deeper social significance than selling a bunch of sneakers, which is why Ali was a far more globally significant person. If you read all those exerts I posted and still can't work it out then its pointless going further.
 
I'm glad I wasn't drinking anything when reading this. You definitely need to get out more - as in out of the US - if you think Michael fucking Jordan was even close to being the kind of household name across the globe that Muhammad Ali was.
Both are household names. Ali's peak was higher in the 60s than Jordan's was in the 90s. I'll give you that. However, globally recognized is globally recognized. Again, their cultural and historical significance over the years has been studied by academics in higher education. We also have this thing called data. Google Trends shows us the last 17 years of web search activity scoped either to a particular country of interest or worldwide.

You don't have to be well-traveled anymore to know when you can simply research an individual's popularity across the globe with the modern tools available to us in 2021. Big Data reveals that Jordan has been more popular than Ali for roughly the last 20 years and that's worldwide. So does their respective social followings which can be easily checked. Thanks for playing.
 
Holy crap imagine using social media as a historic gauge on cultural significance. This is so idiotic I don't even know where to begin. According to your logic, the Kardashians and Bieber are historically the most significant global cultural icons of all time.

Back to reality. Its idiotic to use those metrics for a figure that pre dates the internet and social media, so your metric is irrelevant.

Yes they did have completely different approaches. MJ was solely focused and limited to sport and money, while Ali transcended sport into politics which had a far greater and deeper social significance than selling a bunch of sneakers, which is why Ali was a far more globally significant person. If you read all those exerts I posted and still can't work it out then its pointless going further.
That's correct. If a figure's been so historically significant and pivotal in shaping culture then surely it would show in the data. No? It can be measured. In fact, it's done accurately everyday. We also have this cool thing called web analytics from Big Data companies such as Google. Trends data and social media following metrics being used to gauge an individual's reach (influence) is an industry standard.

Even if you dismiss the metrics used to gauge popularity nowadays, which you have because it doesn't suit the narrative you're spinning, higher education still doesn't agree with you. Ali doesn't predate Harvard and Yale. Like I told the other guy, a household name is a household name and Jordan is the standard by which all other athletes are measured across the board.
 
What the hell are you talking about? Ali was a global cultural icon that transcended sport. MJ was just a great basketball player. Huge difference. lol at even suggesting Jordan was globally as significant as Ali, you must be like 17 or something.
first of all, Jordan is so big that he has his own seat in the UN. But even more important, he actually pulled off a Hitler mustache. Ali couldn’t get away with that.

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That's correct. If a figure's been so historically significant and pivotal in shaping culture then surely it would show in the data. No?

You are making so many bad assumptions here. Of course someone who is in their prime is going to be more popular on google compared to someone who has not been relevant for 30 years, all it proves is that during that snap shot. Jordan was more popular, just as Beiber or the Kardashians have 10x more google popularity than Jordan but that is only a snap shot, and a stupid one. The age demographic will also skew the google data, because a large sector of the Ali demographic use google far less or are dead.

That's correct. If a figure's been so historically significant and pivotal in shaping culture then surely it would show in the data. No? It can be measured. In fact, it's done accurately everyday. We also have this cool thing called web analytics from Big Data companies such as Google. Trends data and social media following metrics being used to gauge an individual's reach (influence) is an industry standard.

How do you specifically measure the impact of JFK whos assassination stopped the world or Dianna's death? by current day google clicks? You can't see how retarded your metric is yet? This is a matter of history, you need to research much deeper than google popularity.

That's correct. If a figure's been so historically significant and pivotal in shaping culture then surely it would show in the data. No? Even if you dismiss the metrics used to gauge popularity nowadays, which you have because it doesn't suit the narrative you're spinning, higher education still doesn't agree with you. Ali doesn't predate Harvard and Yale. Like I told the other guy, a household name is a household name and Jordan is the standard by which all other athletes are measured across the board.

Again you miss the point. Jordan was limited to sport, while Ali surpassed by expanding to politics, like civil rights which effected far more people than sports fans. This is undeniable, and you have not responded to this point, all you do is keep mentioning google popularity. So I just want to confirm something. Using your metric, results in Kim Kardashian being the most popular and significant human being in the history of man kind. Do you stand by that?
 
Yes they did have completely different approaches. MJ was solely focused and limited to sport and money, while Ali transcended sport into politics which had a far greater and deeper social significance than selling a bunch of sneakers, which is why Ali was a far more globally significant person. If you read all those exerts I posted and still can't work it out then its pointless going further.

So you can transcend the sport only by being linked to politics? I can't recall the last time I read so much horse crap.
It was a different time back then... Pele, involuntary, was also involved in politics during all the riots in Brazil in the 1960s.
Jim Brown too...
A certain Lew Alcindor converted to Islam and changed his name to Kareem Abdul-Jabbar... sounds familiar?

How do you specifically measure the impact of JFK whos assassination stopped the world or Dianna's death? by current day google clicks? You can't see how retarded your metric is yet? This is a matter of history, you need to research much deeper than google popularity.

Who mentioned JFK? We were talking Michael Jackson.
 
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So you can transcend the sport only by being linked to politics? I can't recall the last time I read so much horse crap.
It was a different time back then... Pele, involuntary, was also involved in politics during all the riots in Brazil in the 1960s.
Jim Brown too...
A certain Lew Alcindor converted to Islam and changed his name to Kareem Abdul-Jabbar... sounds familiar?


Politics
transcends more than selling sneakers. Its not complicated (for most). Yes it was a different time back then which is why those figures were far more impactful than a mere basketball player who sold sneakers. How can you not grasp that being involved in political issues that effect people globally of all likes, who are not even into sport, its far more impactful than just being great at basketball and selling sneakers?


Who mentioned JFK? We were talking Michael Jackson.

You don't even know what we are talking about.
 
On the Bieber subject. He isn't the household name that Jordan is around the world. The only reason it may feel like he is is because he's here now. He's current, active, and seemingly at the peak of his popularity. He took full advantage of the times we're living in and that's the social media age. An age where anyone with an internet connection and social media account can be their own content publisher. Jordan and Ali were pre-social media era athletes, obviously. So, comparing a current active musician in Bieber who is still churning out new albums and going on tour versus a nearly 20 year retired athlete in Jordan, who is a pre-social media era athlete from last generation, isn't a fair comparison.

LOL how did I miss this gold nugget. You are actually doing the same unfair comparison between Ali and Jordan. Thanks for agreeing with my argument. Have a nice day.
 
To say Ali wasn't political is the dumbest statement I've ever heard.
People whine, cry and lose thier shit over a dude like Colin Kaepernick kneeling during the anthem and say he's "too politcal" - imagine the scorn and fury if an athlete today came out with the equivalent of the "I ain't got no quarrel with them vietcong, no vietcong ever called me ******."
Even his half ass attempts at politics are worlds better than "Republicans wear sneakers too."
 
Uhhhh what?

Ali was and still is revered all around the world as someone who stood for the rights of his people and his principles, even at the cost of his prime years.

MJ was a self serving dude.

Now when it comes to accomplishments within their respective sports, that's a different story.

Ali was in favor of segregation. Apologies for introducing further political chatter in a boxing forum.
 
Ali was in favor of segregation. Apologies for introducing further political chatter in a boxing forum.

True... But I guess people want to believe certain things... Ali the political super-brain who could have held lectures at Harvard.

Sorry folks, he was extraordinary between the ropes, and could talk and sell fights like nobody else. But leave it at that.
 
You are making so many bad assumptions here. Of course someone who is in their prime is going to be more popular on google compared to someone who has not been relevant for 30 years, all it proves is that during that snap shot. Jordan was more popular, just as Beiber or the Kardashians have 10x more google popularity than Jordan but that is only a snap shot, and a stupid one. The age demographic will also skew the google data, because a large sector of the Ali demographic use google far less or are dead.
Except Michael Jordan isn't in his prime. He's been retired for almost 20 years (as of 2003). His prime was in the 90s. The last NBA championship he won was in 1998. The metrics are only being deemed stupid by you for the simple fact that neither of them support your argument. Jordan is also from the pre-social media era just as Ali was. And Jordan's fan base isn't that young, either. He made his NBA debut in the mid 80s. The older age demo excuse for Ali still doesn't explain the significant lack of interest in Ali these days, especially since he's considered to have a lasting legacy. You act like the elderly don't have access to a computer, tablet, or smart phone. His name is still dropped often in and out of the sport of boxing and there's a trophy commissioned by his family in his name, the World Boxing Super Series (WBSS) Ali Trophy.

You think a single generation difference between Ali and Jordan explains it away? It doesn't. When Ali passed in June of 2016 interest naturally skyrocketed. He was trending at the top of the list. I'll bet many of them were older folks searching for him to read about his death. They're not all dead and he didn't retire from boxing until the early 80s.
How do you specifically measure the impact of JFK whos assassination stopped the world or Dianna's death? by current day google clicks? You can't see how retarded your metric is yet? This is a matter of history, you need to research much deeper than google popularity.
Actually, yeah. You can get a rough idea at least. There's always going to be renewed interest in a particular topic many years or even decades later. For instance, an individual's birthday or death anniversary, the date of an important historic event in which the individual was involved in, and so on.
Again you miss the point. Jordan was limited to sport, while Ali surpassed by expanding to politics, like civil rights which effected far more people than sports fans. This is undeniable, and you have not responded to this point, all you do is keep mentioning google popularity. So I just want to confirm something. Using your metric, results in Kim Kardashian being the most popular and significant human being in the history of man kind. Do you stand by that?
No, Jordan's impact certainly isn't limited to sport. He was awarded the Presidential Medal of Freedom for transcending the sport of basketball and for his accomplishments on and off the court, literally (I already embedded the award ceremony to educate you on this). He's the first NBA player to become a billionaire. His global presence and legacy reaches far beyond its depths. You've missed the point again. Jordan never needed to entertain social issues or politics to cross over deep into the global mainstream. He did it by being entirely apolitical and built an empire with his brand. Today he has a $1.6 billion net worth.

As for Kim Kardashian, she's quite literally a socialite and media personality. A talentless fame whore married to one of the most popular musicians on the planet (who is a self-made billionaire). She's been trending at the top for many years but she hasn't meaningfully shaped culture nor will she ever be viewed as a historically important figure. Jordan is an established household name and has been for decades. He's inspired millions if not billions of athletes and continues to. Kim may appeal to the mainstream but she never left her mark on it. She'll leave no legacy behind. She also didn't make her name by herself, she's a part of a large clan (family) of socialites who helped her reach the level of fame she has now. Jordan's legacy will be a long lasting one. It's been nearly 20 years since he retired and current modern day athletes are still frequently compared to him (Floyd, Tiger (for a while), LeBron, Brady, every great across the sports world, practically).

Ali tackling social issues head on and the politics that come with them really isn't anything new. It was Jack Johnson who paved the way for him there. After Johnson it was then Jackie Robinson who made such a mark on his respective sport (baseball) by breaking the color line. Back when baseball was significantly more popular than boxing in the US and abroad. And both Johnson & Robinson had similar impacts globally inside and outside of their sports. They both transcended their respective sports especially Robinson.

This is from Jack Johnson's Wikipedia page. Let me know if any of it sounds familiar?

“Widely regarded as one of the most influential boxers of all time, one of the period's most dominant champions, and as a boxing legend, his 1910 fight against James J. Jeffries was dubbed the "fight of the century".”

“According to filmmaker Ken Burns, "for more than thirteen years, Jack Johnson was the most famous and the most notorious African-American on Earth".”

“Transcending boxing, he became part of the culture and history of racism in the United States.”
 
True... But I guess people want to believe certain things... Ali the political super-brain, lol.
He could have held lectures at Harvard.

Sorry folks, he was extraordinary between the ropes, and could talk and sell fights like nobody else. But leave it at that.

Again nobody suggested he was a super brain, or that you need to be to be politically active. And you don't decide where we leave things and just ignore the activism he engaged in out of the ring. History has already decided that regardless of the opinions of brainlets.
 
LOL how did I miss this gold nugget. You are actually doing the same unfair comparison between Ali and Jordan. Thanks for agreeing with my argument. Have a nice day.
Nope. Ali was retired when that trend data collection started and Jordan had already retired the year prior. Both are African-American pre-social media global icons separated by only a single generation. And both started their social media campaigns at almost exactly the same time (2009/2010). I look forward to hearing your take on Jack Johnson's & Jackie Robinson's respective global impacts and how they're comparable to Ali's. In fact, they came before Ali and paved the way for him.
 
Again nobody suggested he was a super brain, or that you need to be to be politically active. And you don't decide where we leave things and just ignore the activism he engaged in out of the ring. History has already decided that regardless of the opinions of brainlets.
Ali made a difference, Jordan didnt. Its hilarious these guys are so adamant the rest of the world reflects the US. I knew the shoe before the guy. Nobody watches basketball in Europe.
 
Ali made a difference, Jordan didnt. Its hilarious these guys are so adamant the rest of the world reflects the US. I knew the shoe before the guy. Nobody watches basketball in Europe.
Is Pacquiao more popular in Europe than Lebron James?
 
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