Is Shogun rua the lhw goat without any asterisk?

[Daelh]

Well, MMA has weight classes, which i.e. football or soccer doesn't. So obviously there are gonna be more potential GOAT's in MMA.

Football and soccer has as many or more positions as there are weight classes though and they still only talk about the overall GOAT not a new positional GOAT every week.

 

[Richard Fannin]

and didnt he get chocked tf out by forrest or am i buggin. too lazy to check.

Nah youse finna buggin fam. Shogun KO'd Forrest

 

[loisestrad]

Football and soccer has as many or more positions as there are weight classes though and they still only talk about the overall GOAT not a new positional GOAT every week.

Silly argument. MMA (and other sports with weightclasses) are literally crowning champs in each weightclass.

There's no celebrating the best midfielder in the world.

 

[Lee Danger]

Rampage at some point was IMO the best lhw.

 

[ferrisjso]

No its Evans or Rampage. It probably would be Hendo if he didn't spend time at MW.

But if you were going to pick DC Yes its Shogun. As long as you don't put DC with like 5 wins then pick anyone from that era its fine.

 

[Mike]

Nah youse finna buggin fam. Shogun KO'd Forrest

That doesn't erase the first fight though.

 

[World eater]

Rampage and Shogun were awesome.
But I would always choose Wand.

 

[CanCrusher77]

Was there anyone better than prime shogun at lhw who wasn't on peds or trt?

How do you know he wasn't on PEDS? Pride wanted their fighters to juice lol.

 

[Richard Fannin]

That doesn't erase the first fight though.

Obviously, that was just a response to WokeWarrior

I'm not even mad anymore about the first Griffin fight, because had Mauricio not gotten that wake-up call, and gotten a ton of surgeries, who knows if he would have been able to solve the RYOTO riddle and became the UFC champion?

I just wish Shogun could have retired earlier, though... had the judges been good and Hendo-Mauricio 1 was scored a draw as God intended
(first 2 rounds 10-9 Hendo, 3rd round 10-8 Rua)
followed by Shogun finishing Brandon Vera

and then giving a retirement speech... yeah, that would have been sweet.

 

[MaulingMyClown]

I would say a fan favorite, no doubt one of my favorites of all time but not sure if GOAT.

 

[Big Tuppy Hole]

Was there anyone better than prime shogun at lhw who wasn't on peds or trt?

Prime Shogun fought in a organisation that had rampant PED abuse

 

[aerius]

No. You could make the argument that he was the best LWH at his peak, but he never had the consistency and long term dominance of a GOAT.

 

[RonDante]

Shogun was out of his prime before he even fought machida. A close fight (even if you call robbery) against a guy almost 20 pounds smaller than you is a bad look

He had already had 2 knee injuries and looked like shit against a 44 year old semi retired Coleman who gassed in the very first round. He himself gassed and this was where he tore his acl the second time

Then right after the machida rematch he tears his acl a third time and never beats any top guys again, going 3-6 over the next 3 years, 3-5-1 if you consider the first henderson fight a draw

 

[GrantB13]

goat is being used too loosely in mma, no other sports have different names pop up in threads daily claiming goats

there should technically only be 1 goat, with 2-3 potential candidates for contention. that's what make the phrase "greatest of all time" special

having so many fighters claim goats only make the sport look amateur

I think the topic is generally boring anyway. It's talked about ALL THE TIME. And every new champ with one defense gets thrown into the mix. People are just so obsessed with the best this, the best that, or whatever attribute that proceeds the phrases "in MMA/UFC history".

 

[smiles mma]

Before Jones I guess the top guys would be
Chuck, Tito, w.silva, rua,

I think each guy has a case for who's best

Personally I put Tito lowest, I think his wins are kinda weak in comparison to the other guys

 

[Nathan LaMontagne]

Shogun has the single greatest accomplishment in winning the '05 GP.
Not only winning it, how he did it.

Without an asterisk Shogun is my number 1.

I don't think Shogun of that time, would do badly against Cormier.

I mean Shogun slightly outgrappled fucking Ricardo Arona. He could survive on the ground against Cormier. One wild shot standing and Shogun would very well be able to blitz him




Also: for the people crying PEDs in Pride, There wouldn't be an asterisk about PEDs because his opponent could use them.

It's a level playing field.

 

[nostradumbass]

Oh God, no, but how sad would that be if it he was? The goat had a 10-12 UFC record and his only impressive win was Lyoto Machida.

If you're basing it entirely on his Pride career, then I'd say that's a pretty damn big asterisk if your good results are in the rampant PED org, then are suddenly out of your prime at 26.

 

[daniel san]

Hahahahaha. This isn’t 2004 - it’s 2024 and Shogun is not remotely close to being the GOAT. 20 years ago, in-shape Shogun was the best LHW. If you transport prime Shogun to today, he’s be competitive with today’s piss poor LHW division, but he would get beaten badly by Jones, DC, Gus, Rumble etc. I’m a big Shogun fan but I don’t know if he’s even in the top 10.

 

[TheGreatA]

The injuries killed his career, unfortunately. By his late 20s he was already moving like an old man.

 

[MarleyLynx]

DCs overall career is better than Shoguns but Shoguns LHW career is better than DCs LHW career.

DC also trains at AKA so that violates the OP