Military Roll Call! Veterans, GTFIH!

[San Marino]

He said the Army member asked him "What was the childhood nickname of the lawyer of the prosecution at the O.J. Simpson trial?"

A question on a promotion board? What an idiot.
I thought these questions were standard and related to leadership positions - at least as far as the U.S. Army.
My experience - officers don't go before a board face-to-face, but your file does.
I can tell you that OCS was the most stupid school I ever attended in the Army. I learned absolutely nothing in the process, with the exception of how stupid TAC officers can be. We graduated 13 from a class of 45.

 

[San Marino]

Why do people think that U.S. Navy SEALs are better than U.S. Army Special Forces? The Bin Laden raid? Nothing unique here. SEAL Team 6 was available at the time when other SOF units were not.

Link: Why Delta Force was chosen over SEAL Team 6 for the operation to kill the leader of ISIS | SOFREP

Hey @Mike Hagger, why are you SF guys so fond of 'hands-in-pocket'?

 

[Mike Hagger]

Why do people think that U.S. Navy SEALs are better than U.S. Army Special Forces? The Bin Laden raid? Nothing unique here. SEAL Team 6 was available at the time when other SOF units were not.

Link: Why Delta Force was chosen over SEAL Team 6 for the operation to kill the leader of ISIS | SOFREP

Hey @Mike Hagger, why are you SF guys so fond of 'hands-in-pocket'?

Hahaha I dunno but it’s definitely a thing.

 

[My Spot]

A question on a promotion board? What an idiot.
I thought these questions were standard and related to leadership positions - at least as far as the U.S. Army.
My experience - officers don't go before a board face-to-face, but your file does.
I can tell you that OCS was the most stupid school I ever attended in the Army. I learned absolutely nothing in the process, with the exception of how stupid TAC officers can be. We graduated 13 from a class of 45.

How was IBOLC?

 

[My Spot]

Why do people think that U.S. Navy SEALs are better than U.S. Army Special Forces? The Bin Laden raid? Nothing unique here. SEAL Team 6 was available at the time when other SOF units were not.

Link: Why Delta Force was chosen over SEAL Team 6 for the operation to kill the leader of ISIS | SOFREP

Hey @Mike Hagger, why are you SF guys so fond of 'hands-in-pocket'?

Well Seals write all those books and movies. GBs are the quiet professionals. Plus FID isn't sexy.
And perception is reality unfortunately. Same reason people think all marines are high speed operators.

 

[Strychnine]

A question on a promotion board? What an idiot.
I thought these questions were standard and related to leadership positions - at least as far as the U.S. Army.
My experience - officers don't go before a board face-to-face, but your file does.
I can tell you that OCS was the most stupid school I ever attended in the Army. I learned absolutely nothing in the process, with the exception of how stupid TAC officers can be. We graduated 13 from a class of 45.

I know, it's crazy right? My cousin who was Army told me "Become a Mason! Once the promotion board sees that and if there's a Mason on the board, your package isn't going anywhere until you're promoted!"

I had to tell him... "Uhhhh, Cousin.. It doesn't work that way for AF enlisted..!"

 

[San Marino]

How was IBOLC?

It was called IOBC (Infantry Officer Basic Course) when I went through it in 1991. It was a 'gentleman's' course, unlike OCS. No harassment by the training staff and no attrition. We all graduated. I had been enlisted for 3 years in the Infantry prior to going to IOBC. About 70% of the classes were on things I already knew. It was an excellent course! We were working at the Squad and Platoon level. It was probably one of the better schools I attended while in the Army. It was a long course ( 4 months during the winter) made up of Active Duty and National Guard officers. It was a fun period in my career being with a lot of the same soldiers with the same rank. Later I would be assigned my Platoon and had a chance to really learn with some great NCOs. I was fortunate to have a very skilled E-7 who made my job a lot easier. It was hard work. Looking back, I wonder how many of my fellow Lieutenants would be killed in Iraq and Afghanistan. In 2003 we were all senior Captains or junior Majors.

 

[San Marino]

 

[Thrawn33]

A question on a promotion board? What an idiot.
I thought these questions were standard and related to leadership positions - at least as far as the U.S. Army.
My experience - officers don't go before a board face-to-face, but your file does.
I can tell you that OCS was the most stupid school I ever attended in the Army. I learned absolutely nothing in the process, with the exception of how stupid TAC officers can be. We graduated 13 from a class of 45.

As far as the CG goes (where we actually give enlisted command jobs) you run your candidates through an in person pre-board at a lower level command then the actual board at a higher level one.

The panel at the pre-board is chaired by one O-5 or O-6 depending on where you take it. The final chaired by an O-6.... The rest of the board members are E-7 at minimum with command certifications and experience, a NavEng Warrant and a highly paid work-life civilian.

There are are no standard questions.
Practice is to make your pre-board the "Hell Board" lots of book knowledge and some scenarios.

Practice for the final board is mostly scenarios often created by the board members personal experience....

I have sat 3 preboards (failed first, passed next two) and 2 final boards (passed both) to get two different command certs (you can sit for multiple at one time, but I didn't have the quals the first time I passed my final board to get my command ATON afloat qual)

Now I've been a board member for 2 pre-boards and one final ....

I will say I am happy the enlisted decide who gets enlisted command certs. For the most part the O-5/6 backs the enlisted members of the board...only one time I saw an O-6 play tiebreaker because the board was split on a candidate.

Meanwhile JOs in my service just get a record screen...

 

[San Marino]

There are are no standard questions.
Practice is to make your pre-board the "Hell Board" lots of book knowledge and some scenarios.

What are some of these board questions? As I understand the soldier/sailor needs to be up on current events.

 

[Thrawn33]

What are some of these board questions? As I understand the soldier/sailor needs to be up on current events.

Nothing specific to current events, but definitely with an eye to the current issues.

One example:

"You're Unit is in a small town and your new Petty Officer, who is black, comes out of his apartment to find racist graffiti all over his truck. Go"

Social media content was another big one.

Lots of grey area judgement questions.

 

[My Spot]

It was called IOBC (Infantry Officer Basic Course) when I went through it in 1991. It was a 'gentleman's' course, unlike OCS. No harassment by the training staff and no attrition. We all graduated. I had been enlisted for 3 years in the Infantry prior to going to IOBC. About 70% of the classes were on things I already knew. It was an excellent course! We were working at the Squad and Platoon level. It was probably one of the better schools I attended while in the Army. It was a long course ( 4 months during the winter) made up of Active Duty and National Guard officers. It was a fun period in my career being with a lot of the same soldiers with the same rank. Later I would be assigned my Platoon and had a chance to really learn with some great NCOs. I was fortunate to have a very skilled E-7 who made my job a lot easier. It was hard work. Looking back, I wonder how many of my fellow Lieutenants would be killed in Iraq and Afghanistan. In 2003 we were all senior Captains or junior Majors.

Everyone graduated? IOC has a drop rate of about 25% for males.
Did you go to Ranger School right after?

 

[San Marino]

Everyone graduated? IOC has a drop rate of about 25% for males.
Did you go to Ranger School right after?

Yes, everyone in my group graduated. The only way to really fail was academically or physical fitness. Maybe a DWI or DUI. You had to be a real 'dud' to fail that course. A 25% drop rate in the Marine IOC? Wow! What were they being dropped for? Yes, Ranger school right after IOBC, which made it easy since we would be covering the same topic with many of the same students from IOBC. Also, I was probably in the best shape of my career. We had been using the Ranger Handbook for 4 months in IOBC.

 

[My Spot]

Yes, everyone in my group graduated. The only way to really fail was academically or physical fitness. Maybe a DWI or DUI. You had to be a real 'dud' to fail that course. A 25% drop rate in the Marine IOC? Wow! What were they being dropped for? Yes, Ranger school right after IOBC, which made it easy since we would be covering the same topic with many of the same students from IOBC. Also, I was probably in the best shape of my career. We had been using the Ranger Handbook for 4 months in IOBC.

It was the Combat Endurance Test and the humps that got people. Of course they lowered (or "modified" ) the standards since no women were passing it under the old way.

 

[San Marino]

It was the Combat Endurance Test and the humps that got people. Of course they lowered (or "modified" ) the standards since no women were passing it under the old way.

U.S. Marine 2nd Lieutenants in the Infantry failing on endurance and road marches?
I believe they have Marine E-7s at the Quantico OCS program. I had a friend that went through it. That is the way to go. A seasoned NCO to shape up those officer candidates. We had junior 2nd Lieutenants as TAC officers in our program. Indeed, I had forgotten we now have females in the Infantry. God help us all!

* Update: Marine Infantry officers are no longer required to pass the Combat Endurance Test.
"Marines' requirements for Infantry officers are unrealistic, Army Colonel says. He asks how often Marine Infantry officers carry 152 pound loads in combat, as they are required to do at the Infantry Officers Course."

Yeah, a 152 pound load does sound a bit much. Usually 1/3 your body weight on the rucksack. You have females (and some males) who weigh 145 pounds. Who in the Corps came up with this magical 152 pound number for the course?

"According to the Infantry manual, a Marine Infantry officer must be able to lead a forced march of 15 kilometers with 105 lbs., or approach-march load, in under three hours."

. Average load at Ranger school: 55 pound rucksack for up to 12 miles.
. Average load at the Special Forces course: 45 pound rucksack for up to 20 miles.
* Hey @Mike Hagger, is this correct for the course?

 

[Thrawn33]

U.S. Marine 2nd Lieutenants in the Infantry failing on endurance and road marches?
I believe they have Marine E-7s at the Quantico OCS program. I had a friend that went through it. That is the way to go. A seasoned NCO to shape up those officer candidates. We had junior 2nd Lieutenants as TAC officers in our program. Indeed, I had forgotten we now have females in the Infantry. God help us all!

* Update: Marine Infantry officers are no longer required to pass the Combat Endurance Test.
"Marines' requirements for Infantry officers are unrealistic, Army Colonel says. He asks how often Marine Infantry officers carry 152 pound loads in combat, as they are required to do at the Infantry Officers Course."

Yeah, a 152 pound load does sound a bit much. Usually 1/3 your body weight. You have females (and some males) who weigh 145 pounds. Who in the Corps came up with this magical 152 pound number for the course?

"According to the Infantry manual, a Marine Infantry officer must be able to lead a forced march of 15 kilometers with 105 lbs., or approach-march load, in under three hours."

. Average load at Ranger school: 55 pound rucksack for up to 12 miles.
. Average load at the Special Forces course: 45 pound rucksack for up to 20 miles.
* Hey @Mike Hagger, is this correct for the course?

This is why I drive boats....

 

[My Spot]

U.S. Marine 2nd Lieutenants in the Infantry failing on endurance and road marches?
I believe they have Marine E-7s at the Quantico OCS program. I had a friend that went through it. That is the way to go. A seasoned NCO to shape up those officer candidates. We had junior 2nd Lieutenants as TAC officers in our program. Indeed, I had forgotten we now have females in the Infantry. God help us all!

* Update: Marine Infantry officers are no longer required to pass the Combat Endurance Test.
"Marines' requirements for Infantry officers are unrealistic, Army Colonel says. He asks how often Marine Infantry officers carry 152 pound loads in combat, as they are required to do at the Infantry Officers Course."

Yeah, a 152 pound load does sound a bit much. Usually 1/3 your body weight. You have females (and some males) who weigh 145 pounds. Who in the Corps came up with this magical 152 pound number for the course?

"According to the Infantry manual, a Marine Infantry officer must be able to lead a forced march of 15 kilometers with 105 lbs., or approach-march load, in under three hours."

. Average load at Ranger school: 55 pound rucksack for up to 12 miles.
. Average load at the Special Forces course: 45 pound rucksack for up to 20 miles.
* Hey @Mike Hagger, is this correct for the course?

152 lbs was normal in Afghan.

https://foreignpolicy.com/2016/10/2...ourse-standard-actually-does-apply-to-combat/

 

[San Marino]

152 lbs was normal in Afghan.

Well, Brad weighs 175 lbs! Most soldiers and Marines are not that big. I was never that big. The IOTV alone weighs 33 lbs. Brad is a Marine Corps machine gunner (MOS 0331), not a rifleman. The 60mm mortar guys attached to the Platoon will carry even more weight. I would still make the standard to list the rucksack at 1/3 the soldier's body weight. Soldiers usually don't move very far or very fast with all that weight. They become an easy target for the enemy. Being a good leader should be based on making good decisions, not how much weight you can carry.

 

[My Spot]

Well, Brad weighs 175 lbs! Most soldiers and Marines are not that big. I was never that big. The IOTV alone weighs 33 lbs. Brad is a Marine Corps machine gunner (MOS 0331), not a rifleman. The 60mm mortar guys attached to the Platoon will carry even more weight. I would still make the standard to list the rucksack at 1/3 the soldier's body weight. Soldiers usually don't move very far or very fast with all that weight. They become an easy target for the enemy. Being a good leader should be based on making good decisions, not how much weight you can carry.

They changed it because some female Colonel was bitching about no females passing all the graded humps. And that IOC shouldn’t be any harder than SOI.

 

[San Marino]

And that IOC shouldn’t be any harder than SOI.

I believe Army NCOs in the Infantry get all their Infantry training at AIT as Privates. That is really not much training for an E-5 and above. They learn the rest of the information with their unit (OJT), unless they go to Ranger school. BLC (formerly called PLDC, and the WLC) would not cover Infantry tactics at the Platoon level. Don't know. I left the Infantry in 1994 and switched to Civil Affairs (38A). A lot has changed since '94.

When I took over as Battalion S-3 (Operations and Training), the Army did not send me to any school. There is no S-3 school, strange as it may sound. I learned it OJT as the Assistant S-3 for 2 years as a Captain. Some things are better learned through "On the Job Training."