Crime Naming the Capitol Cop Who Killed Unarmed Jan. 6 Rioter Ashli Babbitt

[Loiosh]

So, this is complicated, rather it is a detailed answer. Two cases to consider. First, Graham v Connor and second, Tennessee v Garner.

In Graham v Connor, there are many factors to consider including armed vs unarmed, type of crime, suspect fighting or fleeing, size of officer and subject, number of officers and suspects, gender of officer/offender, and a few other factors. This is also where the reasonableness factor comes in, as in what would a reasonable officer do if faced with the same knowledge the officer on scene had and without using 20/20 hindsight.

The tn v Garner case involved an officer shooting an unarmed black teen in the back as he fled after breaking into an abandoned house. At that time, it was legal to shoot a fleeing felon in the back. After this case, an officer can only shoot someone in the back if they are an immediate threat to the officer or the community. This means that the use of force, which is a seizure under the fourth amendment, must be weighed against the suspect’s 4th amendment rights.

To sum up, those two cases mean that there basically has to be a reasonable belief that the suspect is an immediate threat and that the use of force be reasonable

Thanks, had a feeling you could give a detailed explanation. Much appreciated.

 

[Loiosh]

Damn. This is the best content post I have seen from you. I knew you were more than capable. If I had a "like" to give, I would.

That breakdown is good. I still don't see shooting a small unarmed woman. She's almost exactly the size of my wife. Babbit is petite and pretty harmless. Let's just say she climbed through the window. All the men on the other side could have easily snatched her up, cuffed her, and dragged her away. There was no imminent danger to shoot her with no warning. This officer sucks at his job. He panicked and murdered her.

What if she'd been armed? Several rioters were arrested and found to have been in possession of firearms. Babbitt was ex military, if she'd been armed she also would have been trained.

The rioters broke through several perimeters to get to that point and that was the last one. The urgency at that perimeter displayed by the rioters was the result of the fact they saw lawmakers fleeing beyond the door.

Your assertion that she was harmless is without merit. She made her choice and it could be said this was suicide by cop, her said in her last video before leaving for the capitol that she didn't expect to come back alive.

 

[Whippy McGee]

What if she'd been armed? Several rioters were arrested and found to have been in possession of firearms. Babbitt was ex military, if she'd been armed she also would have been trained.

The rioters broke through several perimeters to get to that point and that was the last one. The urgency at that perimeter displayed by the rioters was the result of the fact they saw lawmakers fleeing beyond the door.

Your assertion that she was harmless is without merit. She made her choice and it could be said this was suicide by cop, her said in her last video before leaving for the capitol that she didn't expect to come back alive.

She wasn't armed.

5'2" - 125 Lbs.

Come on man!

 

[Whippy McGee]

Does it hurt to be this stupid?

And the facist rightwing gaslighting campaign continues. Guys, we recognize what you're doing; it failing miserably.

ROFL! Smoke a joint... damn

 

[shockaholic12]

She wasn't armed.

5'2" - 125 Lbs.

Come on man!

How would a police officer determine a person in a mob charging through a barricade isn’t armed before hand? Telepathy?

The dude next to her in that mob has been very outspoken that the police ordered her to stop a number of times. That mob had previously shown it would assault officers who attempted to prevent it from pushing forward earlier that day, thus the 135+ reports of injured cops and the 15 sent to the hospital that day. It was clear that engaging the mob physically in some hand to hand wrestling matches was a dangerous losing battle for the out numbered police. Running up to her, wrestling with her, and seeing if she was armed all while putting themselves in immediate proximity to a violent mob was not a successful or safe strategy that day. If they allowed her to push through a barricade and charge them and the folks they were protecting the rest of the mob would see that they too could push forth without dire consequences.

she was leading the mob through a barrier outnumbered cops were using to protect themselves. That is huge threat to them. The threat was not the single woman alone, the fact she was the tip of violent mob attempting to charge through a barrier makes her exponentially more threatening than if she was solo.

Considering the threat she posed as a single person and ignoring the context of the mob she was apart of is ridiculous.

 

[Whippy McGee]

How would a police officer determine a person in a mob charging through a barricade isn’t armed before hand? Telepathy?

The dude next to her in that mob has been very outspoken that the police ordered her to stop a number of times. That mob had previously shown it would assault officers who attempted to prevent it from pushing forward earlier that day, thus the 135+ reports of injured cops and the 15 sent to the hospital that day. It was clear that engaging the mob physically in some hand to hand wrestling matches was a dangerous losing battle for the out numbered police. Running up to her, wrestling with her, and seeing if she was armed all while putting themselves in immediate proximity to a violent mob was not a successful or safe strategy that day. If they allowed her to push through a barricade and charge them and the folks they were protecting the rest of the mob would see that they too could push forth without dire consequences.

she was leading the mob through a barrier outnumbered cops were using to protect themselves. That is huge threat to them. The threat was not the single woman alone, the fact she was the tip of violent mob attempting to charge through a barrier makes her exponentially more threatening than if she was solo.

Considering the threat she posed as a single person and ignoring the context of the mob she was apart of is ridiculous.

He stated in the interview that he saw no gun. Also, she had other officers in full riot gear right next to her. You don't get to shoot on a guess. Where is that taught and acceptable?

 

[Loiosh]

She wasn't armed.

5'2" - 125 Lbs.

Come on man!

Security detail doesn't work that way, there's no way they can take that chance. How would they know she wasn't armed? Are you suggesting they're psychic?

She had several other perimeters to come to her senses, she went though the very last one and paid the price.

 

[Nameless Ghoul]

I find it interesting that some of the posters who normally argue that cops are justified in one shooting are now arguing that this was murder and other posters who normally condemn cops’ actions are defending this guy.

Is it because of politics? Is it because of race? Seriously.

It's politics because also the ones who are usually outraged are defending.

 

[shockaholic12]

He stated in the interview that he saw no gun. Also, she had other officers in full riot gear right next to her. You don't get to shoot on a guess. Where is that taught and acceptable?

oh, the dude next to her searched her? Or got info after she was shot?

clearly when a person in a violent mob is bursting through a barrier in an effort to get at outnumbered police and the folks they are protecting and ignoring multiple orders to stop, you do get to shoot on that threat.

 

[nhbbear]

It's politics because also the ones who are usually outraged are defending.

I am thinking the same

 

[emefer]

When I heard she was shot I scoured the net for videos and found things she posted on YouTube. Watching them was a serious mistake because now she isn't just a statistic, she was a real person, and she wasn't always crazy. I saw videos of her talking about recipes in her kitchen and it broke my heart.

Yes, she went off the deep end but she was a human being and this didn't have to happen. When I get angry with Trump about January 6th it's her face I see. He killed her.

He speaks

She speaks

 

[Whippy McGee]

oh, the dude next to her searched her? Or got info after she was shot?

clearly when a person in a violent mob is bursting through a barrier in an effort to get at outnumbered police and the folks they are protecting and ignoring multiple orders to stop, you do get to shoot on that threat.

Never happened with BLM and ANTIFA.

He shot an unarmed little woman.

 

[Whippy McGee]

oh, the dude next to her searched her? Or got info after she was shot?

clearly when a person in a violent mob is bursting through a barrier in an effort to get at outnumbered police and the folks they are protecting and ignoring multiple orders to stop, you do get to shoot on that threat.

No warning. No weapons on her. 5'2" - 125 lbs. Other fully armored police right next to her.

Give me a break.

 

[Loiosh]

He speaks

She speaks

What in the actual fuck.

 

[emefer]

No warning. No weapons on her. 5'2" - 125 lbs. Other fully armored police right next to her.

Give me a break.

She was the first to attempt to climb through the window that they broke. Should she get a first place trophy?
Oh wait, she got one. It was made of lead.

 

[shockaholic12]

No warning. No weapons on her. 5'2" - 125 lbs. Other fully armored police right next to her.

Give me a break.

Ignoring multiple orders to stop, busting through a barrier holding back a violent mob from outnumbered cops in an attempt to charge them. That will get you shot.

How did these cops in riot armor hold up when they attempted to physically engage the mob before that? They failed, got overrun, and got injured. Lol at some keyboard warrior expecting them to continue with that strategy. It had failed multiple times before then and only served to embolden the mob to continue charging forward.

show me one example of the cops successfully going hand fo hand with the mob and it working for them and turning them back.

 

[Whippy McGee]

She was the first to attempt to climb through the window that they broke. Should she get a first place trophy?
Oh wait, she got one. It was made of lead.

You seem to be celebratory over an unarmed woman being gunned down without warning.

 

[emefer]

 

[emefer]

You seem to be celebratory over an unarmed woman being gunned down without warning.

I already said it was sad she was brainwashed by right wing hate media which led to her death but it’s not like we lost the cure for cancer. You seem to support people violently breaking into the capitol in an attempt to stop election certification. What’s your explanation for that?

 

[SBJJ]

I find it interesting that some of the posters who normally argue that cops are justified in one shooting are now arguing that this was murder and other posters who normally condemn cops’ actions are defending this guy.

Is it because of politics? Is it because of race? Seriously.

I think it was a justified shoot because I think he freaked and thought the mob was gonna come swarming in.

That said, if I were him I would feel like utter shit. Because he has to know NOW that this woman was no actual threat to him or anyone. But then again the media and some posters are attempting to paint her as a demon, so who knows. Maybe he actually believes she deserved to die because she's a racist Trumper.

It's just a fucked up situation. She really didn't deserve to be shot. But I think because of all that was happening he was justified