Opinion No, comic books didn't 'become' left wing, they always have been.

Mila is My World said:
Hey folks. From my conservative movie thread I saw the topic divert briefly into comic books and I thought as this is something I'm fairly well versed in, I'd offer some knowledge. I know some people have a nostalgia for a 'good old days of comics' when they were more conservative, and I have to tell you that just isn't true. Comic book hereos at least as far as Marvel and DC have always been very progressive. I post to you these two shorts, that would be considered 'woke SJW nonsense' today let alone 60-70 years ago.

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Thanks to Jeremyemilio who sparked me to think about this topic in detail, here is my refutation to something her brings up:



All mainline DC and comic book heroes are pretty leftwing. Iron Man is a slight libertarian twist but is still a billionarie who ditched profiting off weapons to invest in renewable energy affordable appliances and 'make the world better' hippy projects.

Captain America is firmly left-wing, an anti-facist liberal arts student from New York who despite coming from the 1940s harbours no ill will towards any races, sexualities or religious groups, and actively rejects american government to pursue the ideals of tolerance and 'helping the little guy'.

Superman is literally an immigrant allegory about being accepted in a land were you weren't born, and holy shit did some of his stories trend what you would consider 'woke hysteria'.

Lois-Lane-106.jpg


Super fucking weird for sure, but turning into a black woman to expose and understand her and Superman's unconscious racial biases is hardly 'right wing'.

Stan-Lee was famously a left-wing anti-racist and made no effort to hide that. He literally gave himself a 'soapbox' to preach.

StanLeeSoapBox_01.jpg
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You're confusing racism with a "right" issue. And Lois didnt turn black to uncover her "unconscious bias"; she did to experience what it was like for a black woman.
 
There's a difference between being left wing, most artistic expression is left wing, and being full on woke-stupid.

Star Trek is a good example. It's always had left wing idealogies at it's core. That doesn't mean shoehorning a bunch of trans characters into the show for no reason along with tearing down characters like Picard because they're white men isn't something people can point to and say "this is the point you lost me".
 
Khabib Khanate said:
The best description I have read of Superman is that he is a New Deal Democrat. So center left by the standards of America in the 30s and 40s but not exactly analogous to either left or right of America in the 21st century.

I think that's one reason its been hard to make Superman work over the last few decades. He may have been a progressive figure at the time he was conceived but he's patriotic straight white male who grew up in flyover country so young urban progressives can't relate to him at all. On the flipside he's a bit too much of a bleeding heart for right wingers. Hence young progressives gravitate towards superheroes that are young, urban, and not a generic straight white male superhero(Kamala Khan, Miles Morales as Spiderman, the X-Men) and right wingers gravitate towards more gritty, hardcore law order antiheroes like The Punisher and Batman.
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I can get behind this statement and find no reason to argue against it.
 
Bob Gray said:
There's a difference between being left wing, most artistic expression is left wing, and being full on woke-stupid.

Star Trek is a good example. It's always had left wing idealogies at it's core. That doesn't mean shoehorning a bunch of trans characters into the show for no reason along with tearing down characters like Picard because they're white men isn't something people can point to and say "this is the point you lost me".
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You were just waiting to mention the trans weren't you?
 
salamander said:
He doesn't believe that the justice system rehabilitates violent criminals. Which side of the political spectrum do you think that notion falls on?
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He also believes some are too evil for prison. He also views the world through a myopic view that some of the worst of the worst... are above the law cause of money.

It's why the original version of Billy Russo aka Jigsaw is a mob boss. The version of Russo from the Warzone movie matches the Russo we see in comics:


He also falls into a weird apolitical realm too based on how he treats Russo in the Netflix series with how he choses to not kill him and instead carves up his face to take away the thing Billy cares about most like how Billy took Frank's family:


I get that comics in general have generally leaned left. There's images of Superman comics from the early years preaching to kids that everyone is the same no matter their skin color (granted, the creators of Superman I am pretty sure were both Holocaust survivors so it makes sense) as well as Captain America panels too (Stan Lee though was another guy that was ALWAYS preaching that stuff).

They never got so damn blatant like the new version of Captain America they announce a new one and then use the whole "they're LGBTQ+!" as the marketing point and then you look at the character model... and it's a fucking stereotyped Macklemore looking haircut with a ton of piercings and blue/pink hair. Just for once can media portray someone as homosexual or just not hetereo without making them a supreme fucking stereotype at least looks wise?
 
Gregolian said:
He also believes some are too evil for prison. He also views the world through a myopic view that some of the worst of the worst... are above the law cause of money.

It's why the original version of Billy Russo aka Jigsaw is a mob boss. The version of Russo from the Warzone movie matches the Russo we see in comics:


He also falls into a weird apolitical realm too based on how he treats Russo in the Netflix series with how he choses to not kill him and instead carves up his face to take away the thing Billy cares about most like how Billy took Frank's family:


I get that comics in general have generally leaned left. There's images of Superman comics from the early years preaching to kids that everyone is the same no matter their skin color (granted, the creators of Superman I am pretty sure were both Holocaust survivors so it makes sense) as well as Captain America panels too (Stan Lee though was another guy that was ALWAYS preaching that stuff).

They never got so damn blatant like the new version of Captain America they announce a new one and then use the whole "they're LGBTQ+!" as the marketing point and then you look at the character model... and it's a fucking stereotyped Macklemore looking haircut with a ton of piercings and blue/pink hair. Just for once can media portray someone as homosexual or just not hetereo without making them a supreme fucking stereotype at least looks wise?
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I'd be willing to wager that the Punishers outlook isn't to far away from a good chunk of society's. The reason why he's my favorite character. It's the vicarious element.

I feel you. Same with black characters. Ennis knocked it out of the park with his depiction Barracuda. Imagine some other writer making Barracuda white? No, they'd make a new character.

Chris Claremonts X-Men mirrored the civil rights struggle without getting (too) sappy. It can be done. But if you hamfist something is ceases to become literature, just propaganda.

Like hollywood movies mainstream comic aren't stories, but rather templates that get rehashed with each new reboot of their universe.
 
salamander said:
I'd be willing to wager that the Punishers outlook isn't to far away from a good chunk of society's. The reason why he's my favorite character. It's the vicarious element.

I feel you. Same with black characters. Ennis knocked it out of the park with his depiction Barracuda. Imagine some other writer making Barracuda white? No, they'd make a new character.

Chris Claremonts X-Men mirrored the civil rights struggle without getting (too) sappy. It can be done. But if you hamfist something is ceases to become literature, just propaganda.

Like hollywood movies mainstream comic aren't stories, but rather templates that get rehashed with each new reboot of their universe.
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Hollywood is the perfect comparison that I was going to bring up. When was the last time you saw an action movie with an Asian even SIDE character NOT being some "martial arts" expert or some shit?
 
salamander said:
He doesn't believe that the justice system rehabilitates violent criminals. Which side of the political spectrum do you think that notion falls on?
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Neither, he's an unhinged violent maniac. The only 'politics' he has is being his own judge jury and exectuioner.
 
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