Opinion Poll: Should all new guns be tracked cradle to grave?

[7437]

There are already laws for that.

Sure would be nice of we knew when that law was broken huh. It's almost like every gun that a criminal has was legally purchased, and then sold to a criminal at some point.

Tracking that though, what a horrible concept. Better not.

 

[all caps]

Sure would be nice of we knew when that law was broken huh. It's almost like every gun that a criminal has was legally purchased, and then sold to a criminal at some point.

Tracking that though, what a horrible concept. Better not.

What about the pallets that fall of trains? Who are those registered to

 

[7437]

What about the pallets that fall of trains? Who are those registered to

It's almost like weapons should be secured during transit. Laws requiring weapons to be transported in a responsible manner though, that's just asking too much.

 

[oldshadow]

Sure would be nice of we knew when that law was broken huh. It's almost like every gun that a criminal has was legally purchased, and then sold to a criminal at some point.

Tracking that though, what a horrible concept. Better not.

You track it from the criminals that bought it.

How about we hold the criminal responsible.

So how about 10 years no parole for a felon caught with a gun and that’s for the first time they are caught and it goes up from there.

 

[Fawlty]

What about the pallets that fall of trains? Who are those registered to

Gee I don't know, it would be cool if there were systems of accountability for things in transit. Holy shit how has nobody ever thought of that.

 

[7437]

You track it from the criminals that bought it.

How about we hold the criminal responsible.

So how about 10 years no parole for a felon caught with a gun and that’s for the first time they are caught and it goes up from there.

Selling the guns is totally cool then. No need to worry about that.

And yeah, weapons crimes should be much more harshly punished. Anything violent really.

 

[oldshadow]

Selling the guns is totally cool then. No need to worry about that.

And yeah, weapons crimes should be much more harshly punished. Anything violent really.

Knowingly selling a gun to a criminal or the much more common straw purchase should get the person 15 years.

And I’m not talking 10 years for a crime with a gun I’m talking 10 years just for having the gun.


“In fact, there are a number of sources that allow guns to fall into the wrong hands, with gun thefts at the bottom of the list. Wachtel says one of the most common ways criminals get guns is through straw purchase sales.”


https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/guns/procon/guns.html

 

[7437]

Knowingly selling a gun to a criminal or the much more common straw purchase should get the person 15 years.

And I’m not talking 10 years for a crime with a gun I’m talking 10 years just for having the gun.


“In fact, there are a number of sources that allow guns to fall into the wrong hands, with gun thefts at the bottom of the list. Wachtel says one of the most common ways criminals get guns is through straw purchase sales.”


https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/guns/procon/guns.html

Yes. Almost all are straw sales. Every gun should be documented who it belongs to, and if your gun is in the hands of a criminal..... well I'd be ok with 15.

I'm fine with 10 for illegally having a gun.

 

[all caps]

Gee I don't know, it would be cool if there were systems of accountability for things in transit. Holy shit how has nobody ever thought of that.

You voted for them dude. Way to keep em accountable. Bang up job.

 

[oldshadow]

Yes. Almost all are straw sales. Every gun should be documented who it belongs to, and if your gun is in the hands of a criminal..... well I'd be ok with 15.

I'm fine with 10 for illegally having a gun.

That’s where we disagree I don’t think the sale of private people have should be required to to tracked.

The the BTAF already tracks sells if the gun is used in a crime.

All guns start with a sale through an FFL holder and they start the trace there. Being a former FFL holder I know this because they have called me and I had to review who I sold a weapon to and this was 20 years latter.

 

[oldshadow]

Yes. Almost all are straw sales. Every gun should be documented who it belongs to, and if your gun is in the hands of a criminal..... well I'd be ok with 15.

I'm fine with 10 for illegally having a gun.

I said knowingly selling to a criminal.

So you would be fine if you were jailed for selling your car to someone that used it in a crime.

 

[jlagman]

Sure would be nice of we knew when that law was broken huh. It's almost like every gun that a criminal has was legally purchased, and then sold to a criminal at some point.

Tracking that though, what a horrible concept. Better not.

Yup, terrible concept, every criminal was once a law abiding citizen too, that doesn't mean we put everyone on a government watch list, now does it?

 

[7437]

That’s where we disagree I don’t think the sale of private people have should be required to to tracked.

The the BTAF already tracks sells if the gun is used in a crime.

All guns start with a sale through an FFL holder and they start the trace there. Being a former FFL holder I know this because they have called me and I had to review who I sold a weapon to and this was 20 years latter.

See, I think that a paper trail starting at the FFL and including private sales would make it damn near impossible to straw sale. The last person in line would have some explaining to do. Very effective way to fix that. Just the FFL sale doesnt mean much at all.

 

[jlagman]

Yes. Almost all are straw sales. Every gun should be documented who it belongs to, and if your gun is in the hands of a criminal..... well I'd be ok with 15.

I'm fine with 10 for illegally having a gun.

So...again...criminalization; anyone who was part of the chain of custody shares the guilt.

 

[7437]

So...again...criminalization; anyone who was part of the chain of custody shares the guilt.

No, just the person who made a straw sale. That's what the paperwork is for.

 

[oldshadow]

See, I think that a paper trail starting at the FFL and including private sales would make it damn near impossible to straw sale. The last person in line would have some explaining to do. Very effective way to fix that. Just the FFL sale doesnt mean much at all.

That’s where we disagree and I will never support this.

As it is now they call you (BTAF) and you are required to look up the the number, make and model and confirm who you sold it to and their address when it was sold. Then they go from there by contacting each person.

 

[jlagman]

No, just the person who made a straw sale. That's what the paperwork is for.

Does "the paperwork" prove that the buyer was a criminal prior to or at the time of sale? Or are you just trying to spread the blame around to as many gun owners as possible?

 

[7437]

Does "the paperwork" prove that the buyer was a criminal prior to or at the time of sale? Or are you just trying to spread the blame around to as many gun owners as possible?

Dont sell your gun to a criminal, super easy.

You seem very invested in protecting criminals who make straw sales though

 

[7437]

That’s where we disagree and I will never support this.

As it is now they call you (BTAF) and you are required to look up the the number, make and model and confirm who you sold it to and their address when it was sold. Then they go from there by contacting each person.

That system could work too, if it was backed by criminal statutes. If they were required to keep records of gun sales. As is "I dont remember" or "it got stolen but i didnt report it" are valid excuses. They shouldnt be.

 

[oldshadow]

That system could work too, if it was backed by criminal statutes. If they were required to keep records of gun sales. As is "I dont remember" or "it got stolen but i didnt report it" are valid excuses. They shouldnt be.

If you say that you are a suspect and they will be looking at you hard.

I don’t think citizens should be required to keep records like a FFL holder but they can always be charged with lying to an officer.