International Prophecy coming true? War between Israel and Magog

IDL said:
That's nice.
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Keep on hating jews and blaming them for controlling the world because some crackpot CT site you visit told you so. Do that while complaining about how we are all suckers for blindly following the media.

Not "nice" buddy. Just sad.
 
Thurisaz said:
So do I. I just happen take into account the "I am the way and the truth and the life" part, as well as no one getting to the Father but through Him.


Specifically with what do you agree to disagree? I can't find anything you've disagreed with me here.
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Lol I'm confused.

I believe the first part we need Jesus even the Jews aren't saved without him.

I thought we were disagreeing about Israel's current state not being the Israel In the bible tAlked about in Ezekiel 36.

I believe current Israel state will be redeemed in the end times (those that are alive and the 144,000 sealed). I believe Israel will be tricked by the antichrist and mistake him for the messiah until he turns on them to wipe them out only then will they see that Jesus was the true messiah. There's a part in the bible that they will mourn on the one they pierce when they come to this realization. So I believe the 144,000 will be end time Israel that is finally redeemed not the church today... Though technically they are Christians cause they turned to Christ they won't be "Christians" until end times and God opens their eyes." Hope I explained my stance correctly.

I don't believe the church is the current state of Israel spoken of in Ezekiel 36 and I do believe the covenant with Israel that God made in Genesis is still applicable today and that's not to say the current Jews DONT need Jesus today cause they do there still in that period of disbelief and as a nation won't turn until the tribulation and they'll be almost entirely wiped out as their numbers are reduced to 144,000 but those 144,000 will see that Jesus is God and the messiah. That's my belief though.

I thought we were disagreeing on the fact that the church replaced the position with Israel that's all.
 
In The Name Of said:
This is a tough topic for me . . .

I did a lot of study years ago and it seemed to me that all Biblical prophecy was fulfilled in 70 AD at the destruction of Jerusalem ("Preterism").

But, I never put a firm stamp on this conclusion. Things happening today in the world look like a secondary, more-global, antitype fulfillment.

Or its all amazingly coincidental.

I believe in Jesus. He's the cornerstone of the Christian faith.

In Proverbs 3:5, 6 the Bible says, "Trust in the Lord with all thine heart and lean not on thine own understanding. In all thy ways acknowledge Him and He shall direct thy paths."

I also need to study more. I lost motivation on Bible prophecy some time ago, but with God's help, I do need to pick it up again more earnestly. I care about truth first and foremost (or so I would hope), so I need to study more about everything. I trust in God to help me and Iead me into all truth.
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Wow.
A post done by you without a single mention of Islam.
 
In The Name Of said:
This is a tough topic for me . . .

I did a lot of study years ago and it seemed to me that all Biblical prophecy was fulfilled in 70 AD at the destruction of Jerusalem ("Preterism").

But, I never put a firm stamp on this conclusion. Things happening today in the world look like a secondary, more-global, antitype fulfillment.

Or its all amazingly coincidental.

I believe in Jesus. He's the cornerstone of the Christian faith.

In Proverbs 3:5, 6 the Bible says, "Trust in the Lord with all thine heart and lean not on thine own understanding. In all thy ways acknowledge Him and He shall direct thy paths."

I also need to study more. I lost motivation on Bible prophecy some time ago, but with God's help, I do need to pick it up again more earnestly. I care about truth first and foremost (or so I would hope), so I need to study more about everything. I trust in God to help me and Iead me into all truth.
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I'm suprised to see you take the stance of preterism.

I've always been fascinated with bible prophecy but it was actually almost hindrance cause that's all I really use to focus on. I remember when I first first started reading the bible that was what I looked at and self admittedly was like into other crap like Nostradamus and zodiac stuff/ stuff I shouldn't have really been looking at but was ignorant and was always confused how that stuff could be dead on.

I remember reading an astrology book that described my personality to a t and I was like how in the world? But realize all that stuff is demonic.... Only read the bible now but I digress.

But the current state of affairs with Israel for me and what I read in the bible and how it all lines up so nicely is the reason for my stance. That's not to say prophecy can't have a double meaning as well I believe that too.

Like the psalms where David is saying lord lord why have you foresaken me. I believe David didn't even know he was prophesying and speaking of his current state yet he was prophesying of Christ's crucifixion. You've probably witnessed in your own life how the Holy Spirit works... Works in such a supernatural way.

All of a sudden a thought pops in your head and your like I'll reach out to this guy and tell him about Christ and you'll reach out to him and there just blown away cause the timing of you saying something to them is uncanny cause they were just looking into it or someone earlier that week said the same exact thing... And then your realize oh wow that wasn't my idea that was the Holy Spirit doing it. And the Holy Spirit sometimes works in such supernatural natural ways that we don't even realize He is at work.

I believe there's a lot of that in the bible. Prophecy being fulfilled in more than one way.
 
colby25 said:
I'm suprised to see you take the stance of preterism.

I've always been fascinated with bible prophecy but it was actually almost hindrance cause that's all I really use to focus on. I remember when I first first started reading the bible that was what I looked at and self admittedly was like into other crap like Nostradamus and zodiac stuff/ stuff I shouldn't have really been looking at but was ignorant and was always confused how that stuff could be dead on.

I remember reading an astrology book that described my personality to a t and I was like how in the world? But realize all that stuff is demonic.... Only read the bible now but I digress.

But the current state of affairs with Israel for me and what I read in the bible and how it all lines up so nicely is the reason for my stance. That's not to say prophecy can't have a double meaning as well I believe that too.

Like the psalms where David is saying lord lord why have you foresaken me. I believe David didn't even know he was prophesying and speaking of his current state yet he was prophesying of Christ's crucifixion. You've probably witnessed in your own life how the Holy Spirit works... Works in such a supernatural way.

All of a sudden a thought pops in your head and your like I'll reach out to this guy and tell him about Christ and you'll reach out to him and there just blown away cause the timing of you saying something to them is uncanny cause they were just looking into it or someone earlier that week said the same exact thing... And then your realize oh wow that wasn't my idea that was the Holy Spirit doing it. And the Holy Spirit sometimes works in such supernatural natural ways that we don't even realize He is at work.

I believe there's a lot of that in the bible. Prophecy being fulfilled in more than one way.
Click to expand...

Well, for me, I came to a point in my late twenties where I was reading through the Bible like never before. The verse where Jesus said, "The words I have spoken to you they are spirit and they are life," leapt off the page. I looked up the Greek word for spirit and it is "pneuma." I believed that if I filled my mind with Jesus' words (the Bible), I would literally be filling myself with His Spirit.

Anyway, I acquired a recording of the New Testament and would listen to it whenever I'd drive. At home I was reading the Bible through (particularly the New Testament) ravenously up to consecutive books every day. Over the space of 4 or 5 years I think I must have gone through the New Testament dozens if not hundreds or a thousand times (I lost track). I only completed reading through the Old Testament 2x (I believe), though parts like Psalms and Proverbs I'm sure thousands of times, and the Torah and maybe Isaiah dozens of times.

But regarding the pouring over the New Testament, I found that several things stuck out to me (and these, largely, without any outside persuasion).

The most startling point and something that I can say with certainty that no one told me to believe, was that Jesus is God. One day it just dawned on me with clarity. Another thing, was the simplicity of the gospel message (indivisable saving faith). A third theme was the power of faith. And finally (though I know there were many more learning's), there was the immediacy in Jesus' words and other New Testament writings of His return and the end of all things.

My brother was the one to first come across Preterism, but I was sort of primed for it (so to speak) as probably one verse more than any stuck out to me - the verse in Matthew 25 (I believe) where Jesus tells His disciples, "I tell you the truth, this generation will not pass away until everything is accomplished. Heaven and earth will pass away but my words will not pass away."

My brother mentioned something too, regarding the writing of Revelation, that I thought was interesting. Though many/most scholars give it a post-70 AD penning (I believe around 90 AD), there is no mention of the destruction of Jerusalem in it - strange considering the prominence of the city in prophecy.

Anyway, I then read a thick volume called The Parousia which is more or less a commentary on The Bible by James S. Russell. I found it quite interesting (a long volume) though the strength of it tapered off towards the end.

From there, however, I went and began what I consider one of the most meaty theological books I've ever read on any topic. The book is called, "The Spirit Of Prophecy" by Max R King. Each paragraph is like meal. Mr King breaks down the prophetic language of the OT (spelling out the types of prophecy) and then that of the NT (showing the fulling antitypes). The Spirit of Prophecy book didn't feel like a sell-job, it just came across as the most thorough breakdown of prophetic language that I'd ever read - and it looked accurate to scripture.

Now about this time, I suffered a few deep heartbreaks . . . As result (at least in part), I lost enthusiasm or interest in my study of prophecy and even the scriptures. Admittedly my faith was shaken. I failed to finish The Spirit of Prophecy and my regular reading of the Bible dropped off. I could go into much more detail but I'll leave it at that.

However, with everything that I read and studied, it seemed to me that all prophecy was fulfilled in that first century. It seemed to me that "Full Preterism" had a VERY compelling argument.

Buuuut . . . I realize my human side. I have competing biases and leanings that could have warred against proper or complete interpration. So this is where I stand today. I'm not sure if its a copout to not hold faster to a conclusion, but there does look to be global, prophetic activity centring in the ME like never before in known history.

I'm pretty sure sabretruth holds to a preterist view and also a universalist position (which I don't agree with).

For myself, world events and even conversing now gives me some desire to study again. I hate to use the word "whollistically," but ulitimately I want to come to a proper conclusion on these matters.

I guess I don't bring up Preterism much because it is a difficult topic to discuss in short conversations. Prophecy in general is a challenging one.
 
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Not following this thread and not looking to start, just adding my ignorant 2c.

If Magog is code for Muslim I'm pulling for the Jews. If Magog is code for anybody other than Muslims, I'm pulling for Magog.
 
In The Name Of said:
I'm pretty sure sabretruth holds to a preterist view and also a universalist position (which I don't agree with).
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Yes to both.

I'm not totally opposed to the idea of a future parousia, I just don't think there's strong scriptural warrant for holding such a belief. Certainly it would be great to see Jesus on earth during my lifetime.
 
Darkballs said:
Keep on hating jews and blaming them for controlling the world because some crackpot CT site you visit told you so. Do that while complaining about how we are all suckers for blindly following the media.

Not "nice" buddy. Just sad.
Click to expand...

@IDL has owned you too many times, you're falling apart.
 
Darkballs said:
Keep on hating jews and blaming them for controlling the world because some crackpot CT site you visit told you so. Do that while complaining about how we are all suckers for blindly following the media.

Not "nice" buddy. Just sad.
Click to expand...

Oh brother. Talk about drama queen.
 
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In The Name Of said:
Well, for me, I came to a point in my late twenties where I was reading through the Bible like never before. The verse where Jesus said, "The words I have spoken to you they are spirit and they are life," leapt off the page. I looked up the Greek word for spirit and it is "pneuma." I believed that if I filled my mind with Jesus' words (the Bible), I would literally be filling myself with His Spirit.

Anyway, I acquired a recording of the New Testament and would listen to it whenever I'd drive. At home I was reading the Bible through (particularly the New Testament) ravenously up to consecutive books every day. Over the space of 4 or 5 years I think I must have gone through the New Testament dozens if not hundreds or a thousand times (I lost track). I only completed reading through the Old Testament 2x (I believe), though parts like Psalms and Proverbs I'm sure thousands of times, and the Torah and maybe Isaiah dozens of times.

But regarding the pouring over the New Testament, I found that several things stuck out to me (and these, largely, without any outside persuasion).

The most startling point and something that I can say with certainty that no one told me to believe, was that Jesus is God. One day it just dawned on me with clarity. Another thing, was the simplicity of the gospel message (indivisable saving faith). A third theme was the power of faith. And finally (though I know there were many more learning's), there was the immediacy in Jesus' words and other New Testament writings of His return and the end of all things.

My brother was the one to first come across Preterism, but I was sort of primed for it (so to speak) as probably one verse more than any stuck out to me - the verse in Matthew 25 (I believe) where Jesus tells His disciples, "I tell you the truth, this generation will not pass away until everything is accomplished. Heaven and earth will pass away but my words will not pass away."

My brother mentioned something too, regarding the writing of Revelation, that I thought was interesting. Though many/most scholars give it a post-70 AD penning (I believe around 90 AD), there is no mention of the destruction of Jerusalem in it - strange considering the prominence of the city in prophecy.

Anyway, I then read a thick volume called The Parousia which is more or less a commentary on The Bible by James S. Russell. I found it quite interesting (a long volume) though the strength of it tapered off towards the end.

From there, however, I went and began what I consider one of the most meaty theological books I've ever read on any topic. The book is called, "The Spirit Of Prophecy" by Max R King. Each paragraph is like meal. Mr King breaks down the prophetic language of the OT (spelling out the types of prophecy) and then that of the NT (showing the fulling antitypes). The Spirit of Prophecy book didn't feel like a sell-job, it just came across as the most thorough breakdown of prophetic language that I'd ever read - and it looked accurate to scripture.

Now about this time, I suffered a few deep heartbreaks . . . As result (at least in part), I lost enthusiasm or interest in my study of prophecy and even the scriptures. Admittedly my faith was shaken. I failed to finish The Spirit of Prophecy and my regular reading of the Bible dropped off. I could go into much more detail but I'll leave it at that.

However, with everything that I read and studied, it seemed to me that all prophecy was fulfilled in that first century. It seemed to me that "Full Preterism" had a VERY compelling argument.

Buuuut . . . I realize my human side. I have competing biases and leanings that could have warred against proper or complete interpration. So this is where I stand today. I'm not sure if its a copout to not hold faster to a conclusion, but there does look to be global, prophetic activity centring in the ME like never before in known history.

I'm pretty sure sabretruth holds to a preterist view and also a universalist position (which I don't agree with).

For myself, world events and even conversing now gives me some desire to study again. I hate to use the word "whollistically," but ulitimately I want to come to a proper conclusion on these matters.

I guess I don't bring up Preterism much because it is a difficult topic to discuss in short conversations. Prophecy in general is a challenging one.
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Thanks for the reply- I enjoy what you have to say on the subject and respect your opinion.

The "this generation will not pass away" has jammed up A lot of people myself included. I really do not know what Jesus was referring to
- perhaps it was the destruction of Jerusalem then I'm not sure.

But I do believe the book is alive and active and I think current Israel is being kept alive by a supernatural force which I believe to be Gods hand. 6 day war is a good example - bless those who bless you curse those who curse you. America is an example of that as well I believe. I believe the prophecies are coming to fruition and even from a preterism view we still run into problems... Biggest one being the second coming of Christ which is my main reason for my stance against it as Christ has not returned yet to defeat the antichrist which would mean to me the antichrist has not stepped on the scene yet.
 
colby25 said:
I'll be honest Lucas... I think you're trolling this entire board. I hope for your sake you're not but that's the impression I get.
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I understand why you would think that. I have only myself to blame for the way I've conducted myself in the past.
 
LucasWithLidOff said:
Just about all of the bible prophecies have already been fulfilled. You'd better start getting right with God because the few remaining to be fulfilled aren't pretty.
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Should we expect things to get hairy once the third temple is built and the Red Heifer is sacrificed?

What else besides that would need to happen?

I do think that those two events are in the books, so to speak. As in there is intent to fulfill them.
 
IDL said:
Should we expect things to get hairy once the third temple is built and the Red Heifer is sacrificed?

What else besides that would need to happen?
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With the creation of the modern Israel, all the woes of revelation followed by the day of wrath are still left to occur. Everything is set up for the end times narrative to play out now. Babylon the great still has to fall which many say is the USA.

However, I think it's a global system. Order out of chaos is how the illuminati plan on creating a one world system, so Babylon the great is probably our current world system. And we know their plan is to drastically reduce the world's population, so we are in for some hard times as this gets fulfilled. The bible says that the entire world weeps for Babylon. This process here could be quick or it could draw out for centuries, no one knows.

The bible also gives many clues that it is the work of Satan and the rich men who serve him on earth who bring about the end times and the day of wrath. For those who follow Christ, it's all about doing right in the face of wrong. Staying righteous like how Noah and Lot did.
 
Slippery Kantus said:
@IDL has owned you too many times, you're falling apart.
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Give one example. I'll wait.

Go ahead and enjoy your end time circle jerk fellas. Prophets of doom have been wrong some 432 billion times in history, but maybe this time, we've cracked it...on Sherdog.
 
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