Shouldering the jab (slight side motion with the elbow).

[spacetime]

I find that when I throw the jab slightly to the side, with a bit of elbow flare ofc, the power increases dramatically, while the speed is the same.

If I go straight down the pipe, it's doesn't have nowhere near the same impact.

Anybody else have the same experience? If I hook of the jab intermixed with regular jab, the opponent won't know which is coming, and I can have my power intact.

If I can jab very hard due to my strong shoulders, shouldn't I put that to use with the jab as well?

 

[SandaKicker]

I’ve never tried a hook/jab hybrid, but I have been inspired by a few Prince Naseem highlights to try a jab/uppercut hybrid recently in sparring.

I do believe shortening the jab can increase its power, whether that comes from hooking slightly or a slight uppercut. Obviously you also need to use the longer jab to find a home for it before you can start loading up.

This is a great display of power jabbing, it contains many of Hamed’s usual eccentricities and D-bag clowning towards the end but the first three or four rounds where you see Hamed fighting tall are a masterclass in my opinion;

 

[ikarus willfly]

I believe it is stronger since you use a more complete shoulder rotation. But it is probably more telegraphed and since the trajectory is not straight anymore, it is probably easier to block. But as you said, mixing it up is the way to go.

 

[spacetime]

I believe it is stronger since you use a more complete shoulder rotation. .

Exactly right. Is there any coach who advocates it?

 

[spacetime]

I’ve never tried a hook/jab hybrid, but I have been inspired by a few Prince Naseem highlights to try a jab/uppercut hybrid recently in sparring.

I do believe shortening the jab can increase its power, whether that comes from hooking slightly or a slight uppercut. Obviously you also need to use the longer jab to find a home for it before you can start loading up.

This is a great display of power jabbing, it contains many of Hamed’s usual eccentricities and D-bag clowning towards the end but the first three or four rounds where you see Hamed fighting tall are a masterclass in my opinion;

Yeah something like that

 

[eternaldarkness]

Exactly right. Is there any coach who advocates it?

Over committing to the jab is a great way to get cracked. There is a reason you should rarely follow throw on a jab.

 

[shincheckin]

I find that when I throw the jab slightly to the side, with a bit of elbow flare ofc, the power increases dramatically, while the speed is the same.

If I go straight down the pipe, it's doesn't have nowhere near the same impact.

Anybody else have the same experience? If I hook of the jab intermixed with regular jab, the opponent won't know which is coming, and I can have my power intact.

If I can jab very hard due to my strong shoulders, shouldn't I put that to use with the jab as well?

the jab, the most important punch of any sport that involves punching! and although its just a jab, theres a ton of different ways to jab. A bit of a flick adds some speed and power, its my standard jab. Straight down the pipe and thrown more like a cross is the power jab. flick jab, standard jab, cross jab, up jab, vertical fist jab, etc.

 

[GH05T]

I find that when I throw the jab slightly to the side, with a bit of elbow flare ofc, the power increases dramatically, while the speed is the same.

If I go straight down the pipe, it's doesn't have nowhere near the same impact.

Anybody else have the same experience? If I hook of the jab intermixed with regular jab, the opponent won't know which is coming, and I can have my power intact.

If I can jab very hard due to my strong shoulders, shouldn't I put that to use with the jab as well?

You'll telegraph though.

 

[spacetime]

You'll telegraph though.View attachment 628463

Any punch is telegraphed one way or another.

"It's telegraphed, but the message gets through!"

/George Foreman

 

[GH05T]

Any punch is telegraphed one way or another.

"It's telegraphed, but the message gets through!"

/George Foreman

 

[eternaldarkness]

View attachment 628959

He's right you know. Norton was able to see Ali's jab coming by watching his peck flex. Winging the elbow will choreograph a lot worse though.

 

[Reyesnuthugr]

The entire upside of the jab is that it can connect fast with the least telegraph-- as close to nothing as basically possible, while still being an attack, and because of that is the most easy to land. That is the quality that makes it valuable against someone who is in all ways better than you in an actual fight or competition-- it can still land on them and disrupt their plans, set them up for bigger attacks.

If it wasn't for that, might as well just use only power punches. Also, there are ways to make the jab connect with more effect which DON'T involve making it more telegraphed. Those are the kind of tweaks you should strive to refine your jab.

 

[eternaldarkness]

The entire upside of the jab is that it can connect fast with the least telegraph-- as close to nothing as basically possible, while still being an attack, and because of that is the most easy to land. That is the quality that makes it valuable against someone who is in all ways better than you in an actual fight or competition-- it can still land on them and disrupt their plans, set them up for bigger attacks.

If it wasn't for that, might as well just use only power punches. Also, there are ways to make the jab connect with more effect which DON'T involve making it more telegraphed. Those are the kind of tweaks you should strive to refine your jab.

Combine this with the fact that the jab is the only punch that doesn't put for out of position and is the closest weapon to the opponent, makes it a great reason to use and improve your jab.
I was just watching a bit of Louis again the other day, and he was amazing at feinting and jabbing his opponent out of position before he would commit to a solid punch (which nearly always landed).

 

[ShadowoftheSun]

Combine this with the fact that the jab is the only punch that doesn't put for out of position and is the closest weapon to the opponent, makes it a great reason to use and improve your jab.
I was just watching a bit of Louis again the other day, and he was amazing at feinting and jabbing his opponent out of position before he would commit to a solid punch (which nearly always landed).

It's worth noting that Louis' highest profile loss was because he wasn't as stringent with his jab as he became later in his career. Schmeling noticed that he dropped his left hand when he jabbed and was able to fire a straight right down the pipe whenever Louis threw a jab. After fixing this flaw, Louis smoked Schemling in the rematch.

 

[spacetime]

It's worth noting that Louis' highest profile loss was because he wasn't as stringent with his jab as he became later in his career. Schmeling noticed that he dropped his left hand when he jabbed and was able to fire a straight right down the pipe whenever Louis threw a jab. After fixing this flaw, Louis smoked Schemling in the rematch.

Still, there is always a tell behind every technique. Now he had a new one instead

 

[Reyesnuthugr]

Still, there is always a tell behind every technique. Now he had a new one instead

If the tell doesn't give enough advanced notice for even most elites to do anything about it, then it doesn't function as a tell

You're the only person I know who would consciously opt for giving your opponent more time and notice of what you are doing in exchange for a negligible increase in power, especially when you don't even have to

 

[spacetime]

If the tell doesn't give enough advanced notice for even most elites to do anything about it, then it doesn't function as a tell

You're the only person I know who would consciously opt for giving your opponent more time and notice of what you are doing in exchange for a negligible increase in power, especially when you don't even have to

I don't think the difference in power is negligible and I can fire it off equally fast either way.

 

[Reyesnuthugr]

I don't think the difference in power is negligible and I can fire it off equally fast either way.

If it works in sparring against boxers who are good, then maybe it's worth something. If they cant counter or dodge it then you may have something that's worthwhile for you.

 

[spacetime]

If it works in sparring against boxers who are good, then maybe it's worth something. If they cant counter or dodge it then you may have something that's worthwhile for you.

It's clearly been done before as the first poster showed.

 

[Reyesnuthugr]

It's clearly been done before as the first poster showed.

Of course it's been "done before"

It's still more of a thing to use here and there rather than a substitute for the regular jab, imo

[EDIT] - I may have misunderstood you.

If you put your shoulder "in" at the end of the jab (causing the elbow to flare some) it's too late for them to see it, it doesn't really add any telegraph because by then they're already getting hit and it can have more impact. That's might be fine if that's the case. Turning the fist at the end ALSO causes elbow flare (a little at the end) but too late to be seen.

If you're putting your shoulder "in" flaring your elbow at the beginning of the punch, then they can much more easily see what's going on and slip and counter you.