'"Super fights" are a cancer to the sport

[markg171]

They never would let a guy hold 2 belts at one time...Randy said it and im positive he knows more than me and you about the inner workings of the company.

They also told Aldo he had to vacate to move up.

I have no idea why you're trying to die on this hill. BJ was literally the reigning champ when he fought GSP in the rematch for the WW belt. He absolutely was given a chance to become dual champ and failed. And before him Henderson was given dual shots at the 185 and 205 belts to merge the Pride/UFC belts, which had he won them instead of losing both would've also made him a dual UFC champ. The UFC without question allowed fighters before Conor to try and become dual champs.

It's after both these, and in particular how badly BJ lost, that the UFC completely shut down the dual champ talk until Conor. That is different than the UFC never allowed it period. Aldo was champion in this period, so of course the UFC wasn't allowing him to do so (and his penchant for being injured/pulling out of fights didn't help). Who knows, maybe if he'd beaten Conor they'd have finally let him move up instead of Conor. Regardless, he lost and Conor moved up and proved it all possible and opened the gateways for more champ champ fights. But then Aldo lost the belt again to Max this time in the new period of dual champ allowances so of course never got to try then either. Meanwhile Max got 2 chances to fight for the LW belt after this, showing again it was Aldo's own fault he kept losing his belt during the champ champ times.

TL;DR it's revisionist nonsense that the UFC didn't allow anybody to become dual champ before Conor.

 

[StonedLemur]

I have no idea why you're trying to die on this hill. BJ was literally the reigning champ when he fought GSP in the rematch for the WW belt. He absolutely was given a chance to become dual champ and failed. And before him Henderson was given dual shots at the 185 and 205 belts to merge the Pride/UFC belts, which had he won them instead of losing both would've also made him a dual UFC champ. The UFC without question allowed fighters before Conor to try and become dual champs.

It's after both these, and in particular how badly BJ lost, that the UFC completely shut down the dual champ talk until Conor. That is different than the UFC never allowed it period. Aldo was champion in this period, so of course the UFC wasn't allowing him to do so (and his penchant for being injured/pulling out of fights didn't help). Who knows, maybe if he'd beaten Conor they'd have finally let him move up instead of Conor. Regardless, he lost and Conor moved up and proved it all possible and opened the gateways for more champ champ fights. But then Aldo lost the belt again to Max this time in the new period of dual champ allowances so of course never got to try then either. Meanwhile Max got 2 chances to fight for the LW belt after this, showing again it was Aldo's own fault he kept losing his belt during the champ champ times.

TL;DR it's revisionist nonsense that the UFC didn't allow anybody to become dual champ before Conor.

Im going by what the fighters have said and I think that container holds more water is all sir.

 

[markg171]

Im going by what the fighters have said and I think that container holds more water is all sir.

Meanwhile I'm going by what actually did in fact happen.

 

[El Fernas]

How many have you seen to actually happen? Out of all of them only Mcgregor vs Alvarez had a real impact in the sport, he went mainstream and never defended any of his two belts, but to call it a cancer? not at all, i wouldnt mind watching champ vs champ more often actually.

GSP vs BJ Penn, BJ lost and nothing happened
Mccgregor vs Alvarez, Conor won and here we are...
CCC vs TJ, TJ lost, got stripped, CCC later fought for the vacant BW belt and retired, nothing happened, both divisions moved up without him.
DC vs Stipe, DC won, nothing happened.
Adesanya vs Blachowicz, Adesanya lost, nothing happened
Nunes vs Cyborg, Nunes won and basically nothing happened, 145 had no contenders, she beat the very few dumb enough t to fight her at 145.

 

[ChimRichalds]

Super fights are okay because they bring eyes to the sport from Boxing and other sports fans who are usually not watching every single UFC PPV.

Even casual fans who see the marketing on the news or tv commercials.

However, the way they go about it is definitely flawed.

Fighters don't defend belts or clean out their divisions anymore.

They win a belt, maybe get one defense and already want to move up and challenge another division. This holds up two divisions and ruins it for fans and fighters alike.

There should be a rule, that in order to move up and challenge another champion -> you have to clean out your division or have at least 4-5 title defenses.

Something in order to EARN a superfight.

100%. Champ vs Champ fights should be very rare.

 

[Ken Fresno]

Meanwhile I'm going by what actually did in fact happen.

How many have you seen to actually happen? Out of all of them only Mcgregor vs Alvarez had a real impact in the sport, he went mainstream and never defended any of his two belts, but to call it a cancer? not at all, i wouldnt mind watching champ vs champ more often actually.

GSP vs BJ Penn, BJ lost and nothing happened
Mccgregor vs Alvarez, Conor won and here we are...
CCC vs TJ, TJ lost, got stripped, CCC later fought for the vacant BW belt and retired, nothing happened, both divisions moved up without him.
DC vs Stipe, DC won, nothing happened.
Adesanya vs Blachowicz, Adesanya lost, nothing happened
Nunes vs Cyborg, Nunes won and basically nothing happened, 145 had no contenders, she beat the very few dumb enough t to fight her at 145.

The "it holds up weight divisions" crowd is so corny. They act like it's one of their Marvel movies and we need to see how the plot line of the divisions play out.

There's only been a handful of fighters in the history of the organization willing to take the risk while champion. And each time it was one of the biggest fights/events ever. And it was obviously happening before Conor.

And nobody is stopping other fighters from establishing themselves in that time with multiple wins over other contenders. They could be accumulating wins, money, fans, leverage. The real cancer is guys feeling like "they've done enough" in their own mind, while there is no actual demand from the paying customers to see them contend for the title.

Also, Izzy went up and challenged, did not hold up his division at all, and came back to 2 guys he already beat and another guy who froze in front of him. Heaven forbid those 3 had to wait a couple more months for their underwhelming decision losses.

 

[El Fernas]

boxing is a shitty sport that mma should not emulate in any capacity

I would say they actually do, only the bad parts.

The "it holds up weight divisions" crowd is so corny. They act like it's one of their Marvel movies and we need to see how the plot line of the divisions play out.

There's only been a handful of fighters in the history of the organization willing to take the risk while champion. And each time it was one of the biggest fights/events ever. And it was obviously happening before Conor.

And nobody is stopping other fighters from establishing themselves in that time with multiple wins over other contenders. They could be accumulating wins, money, fans, leverage. The real cancer is guys feeling like "they've done enough" in their own mind, while there is no actual demand from the paying customers to see them contend for the title.

Also, Izzy went up and challenged, did not hold up his division at all, and came back to 2 guys he already beat and another guy who froze in front of him. Heaven forbid those 3 had to wait a couple more months for their underwhelming decision losses.

Exactly!! the only one that you could say affected or changed things was Mcgregor vs Alvarez, then again, with him out and then Khabib holding the belt and all the drama it made his return fight HUGE actually. As of right now there isnt exactly any hold up at LW, yet the top guys seem to refuse to fight outside of the top 5 so they dont lose their position...thats the cancer, the "i dont fight lower" mentality, when you are at the top you can only fight lower ranked fighters.

Every "super fight" was a huge thing, nothing wrong with them imo.

 

[HeDidn'tWantTheFight]

champion vs champion fights? prob a dozen.

5

-Alvarez/McGregor
-Miocic/Cormier
-Cyborg/Nunes
-Cejudo/Dillashaw
-Blachowicz/Adesanya

 

[kellier]

Simultaneous champion was just Conor wanting to be the 'first' at doing something, it was pretty stupid in hindsight as he didn't defend either title.
I get why they do it though, fighters don't want to vacate their own titles if they lose at a higher weight (look at Israel).

Conor wasn't the first. BJ didn't vacate when he moved up to challenge GSP

 

[markg171]

Conor wasn't the first. BJ didn't vacate when he moved up to challenge GSP

And before BJ the UFC let Dan Henderson fight for the LHW and MW belts back to back to merge them with his dual Pride belts. Had Henderson won both those fights he’d have been dual champ.

The UFC had allowed fighters the chance to become dual champ nearly a decade before Conor. He was just the first to succeed.

 

[El Fernas]

5

-Alvarez/McGregor
-Miocic/Cormier
-Cyborg/Nunes
-Cejudo/Dillashaw
-Blachowicz/Adesanya

BJ Penn vs GSP too, UFC era that was the first one iirc.

 

[Shaddows]

You're wrong lol

I merely missed a fighter (which other users alre3ady corrected me).
but my point was that the number of fighters are not close to 12, so my point remains

 

[Mangar]

Super fights are the only reason to watch.

 

[mister piscadinha]

You're talking about moving weight classes, and calling it 'super fights'

It's been commonplace in combat sports for a very long time, particularly boxing.
The weight classes have smaller jumps between weight classes, and less pronounced in terms of advantages in boxing, but still, it's nothing new.

When you clean out a division and dismantle the number one guy in the fuckin world three times, it just clearly makes sense to talk about testing the waters.

Volk testing out lightweight is pretty much him wanting to cement his legacy as one of the greatest, and to entertain us

And unfortunately, you'll be sitting in the sidelines bitchin about other people attempting great things in life.

it seems i hurt ur feelings by saying that being champion should not guarantee a title shot in another weight class, weird.

 

[mister piscadinha]

Yup.

They should only happen if both divisions are cleaned out(which almost has never been the case). Also no one should ever be allowed to fight for 3 belts we need to stop this sport from becoming a game of musical chairs.

for real man, for real

the worse thing is this "but super fights attracts the casuals" argument, as if the casuals would ever stay around.
they only matter to the pockets of the greedy business guys.
mma is a niche and should stop trying to be "mainstream"

 

[kflo]

nobody cares about boxing apart from fury or canelo.
everyone in boxing is 20-0 because a lot of buns make careers out of losing to "prospects"
also only the famous main eventers gets paid a lot, undercard guys ged paid scraps
mma needs to pay better, for sure. but boxing is not it pal, trust me

You don’t follow boxing….

 

[kflo]

The UFC did that to themselves creating the weight classes.
I think Sakuraba was a perfect example of a smaller guy beating monsters.

Weight classes undoubtedly contributed to the ufc becoming as valuable a franchise as it is now.

 

[kflo]

True, but they ripped a piece of the soul out when it stopped being the best vs the beat like you were saying sir.

They sold that soul for PPV buys and lining their own pockets, at a cost of course.

The “best fighting the best” at the time was a very inferior “best” that would have likely stayed inferior.

 

[Jarvan]

it seems i hurt ur feelings by saying that being champion should not guarantee a title shot in another weight class, weird.

Trying to figure how the fuck in the fuck I could possibly get my feelings hurt because you don't like 'super fights'.

What's weird is how you gathered that from what I wrote.

Can you provide one, just one, coherent explanation of that deducement?

 

[StonedLemur]

The “best fighting the best” at the time was a very inferior “best” that would have likely stayed inferior.

Im sure evolution would've happened either way sir.