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Once they remaster the first game and that comes out. I'll buy it because I'm a simp. Then I'll replay both games back to back.
No Spoilers The Last of Us Part II
- Thread starter Valhoven
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Once they remaster the first game and that comes out. I'll buy it because I'm a simp. Then I'll replay both games back to back.
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I finished the game earlier today. I can say that this was one of the most enjoyable games I've played on the ps4. Presentation is AAA quality and the combat is smoother and more dynamic (I liked the addition of the prone mechanic, being able to hide in grass and bushes, and the dodge mechanic). I experienced a few glitches while playing (my game even crashed once and I had to restart it). The only thing I didn't like was the direction they took with the story. The first game ended so perfectly, I would've preferred if the sequel didn't exist.
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I never once said anything about Abby. Stop projecting little simp. Thats what you go straight to defending and I've never said anything about the character <Lmaoo>
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The trans thing by itself is fine. Couple that with lesbians, overpowered female characters, making Joel look dumb and then killing him like a dog.
The woke narrative is obvious. Lgbtq, feminism, demonization of the white male lead. That's people's issue with the game.
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The pearly clutching from white dudes over not being the focal point of everything is ridiculous already. Other people exist. Joel was always the bad guy. Move on.
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Like its clear as crystal. Joel is objectively a villain in from everyone else's perspective. Just because the first game was told from his POV, doesnt excuse his actions.
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Are you guys saying he's the bad guy cause he killed the doctors at the end?
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Don’t really wanna get into a back and forth over this again but he doomed humanity’s best chance at a cure by saving Ellie, robbed her of any choice in the matter (which she hates him for), and then lies to her.
While we can understand why he does what he does, and a lot of us would have likely done the same, it was 100% selfish and destructive. So from an objective standpoint he is the villain in this world.
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Ok I do agree to an extent but I don't think the doctors were much better. They were going to kill her and not even tell her about it. IMO the best thing to do would have been to have a conversation with her about it. Give her the choice like she wanted and give her some time to do some things she wants to do. She was a kid I'm sure there were still some things she really wanted to do before being killed. Even Abbeys father knew this was a fucked up thing to do. That's not justifying what Joel did but if they would have just say down with Joel and Ellie and laid it all out I think it would have ended for the better for everyone.
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He was the villain. Dizzy did a nice synopsis, but Id also like to add that Ellie knew she was gonna die, she knew she wasnt coming back out of that sleep. Joel doomed humanity, and on the way killed thousands of people.
His only chance of explaining the thousands he had killed was to let Ellie be the sacrifice for humanity, but then he decides to kill all the fireflies and doctors. He killed to keep her alive so she could be the cure, then decided otherwise. I would absolutely do what Joel did, but I know its still the wrong choice.
Fuck the first game was a true masterpiece in storytelling.
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Well if we’re going by her reaction in TLOU2 she stops talking to Joel because she feels he robbed her of life having meaning. She was ready to do whatever it took to help save humanity.
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I got a real sympathy for mr vengeance vibe from it that I loved. While you can see that characters in that didn’t deserve to die you could also see the others point in their desire for revenge. No one is truly wrong and no one is truly right.
Its not that you wanted Joel to die but that you understood her desire for revenge. Can you blame someone for wanting to kill the person who murdered her dad? But as in life the game really painted the picture of revenge being a dirty sad business
Personally I loved the story in part two. It was gritty as fuck and by showing a characters backstory after you’ve slaughtered them brutally really put a human side to the violence in the world.
I was more surprised by what they did with Elle then Joel in this game. They made her completely unlikable and had the option been there at the end I wouldn’t have hesitated to kill her [/spolier]
Personally I loved the story in part two. It was gritty as fuck and by showing a characters backstory after you’ve slaughtered them brutally really put a human side to the violence in the world.
I was more surprised by what they did with Elle then Joel in this game. They made her completely unlikable and had the option been there at the end I wouldn’t have hesitated to kill her [/spolier]
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This was the biggest hole in the story. The doctor was made out to be such a good person full of compassion and yet he felt compelled to perform surgery on a patient without consent. Hell informing the patient might have sufficed in some people’s eye. Maybe Joe wouldn’t have gone ballistic but this is fictional storytelling…
in the end the doc’s action made him out to be a bad guy but his sins are much less compared to Joel’s…
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I'm not so sure Ellie knew. I looked online and from what people are saying there were messages and things like that found that made it seem like Ellie had no idea she would be killed in the process. I never played the DLC for TLOU though so maybe that's where it comes from? I think Joel did the right thing but the wrong way. Just like I felt the doctors were doing the right thing but the wrong way.
Yes we know that in TLOU2 but the right thing to do would have been to ask her and talk to her about it first. Both her and Joel. Then make the decision.
I agree I loved the story in 2 as well. I understood Abbeys feelings as well. I didn't hate Ellie though I still think she was the shit. Going on a revenge tour with her was great.
This is my point I think just telling her and Joel would have resolved the whole thing. Joel would have been pissed still of course but Ellie would have been there to calm him down and let him know this is the right thing to do. It was the underhanded nature of the whole thing that triggered Joel. Once again people he is supposed to be able to trust were going to take his little girl from him because they felt it was the right thing to do. The soldiers were going to kill him and his daughter to contain the virus. Which you could also argue is the right thing to do.
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No one said he deserved to die. I said demonizing him wasn’t something the sequel created, he already was the bad guy.
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Joel = "Bad" guy?
No. Human. None of his actions were particularly villainous(given the circumstances), and his selfish choice was baked into a father/daughter relationship(yes I'm aware Ellie is not his actual daughter), that under the same circumstances most would struggle greatly with and likely opt for the selfish choice, rather than hand over someone they care deeply about to be killed. Add the fact that the bond is even stronger with Ellie, given the Armageddon scenario they've been surviving together in. It's a moral quandary, and I don't think Joel was uniquely evil in his decision. Humans aren't unfeeling, pure logic based beings like Dr. Spock, alright. Given the choice, I'd wager most people would make the same decision Joel made.
No. Human. None of his actions were particularly villainous(given the circumstances), and his selfish choice was baked into a father/daughter relationship(yes I'm aware Ellie is not his actual daughter), that under the same circumstances most would struggle greatly with and likely opt for the selfish choice, rather than hand over someone they care deeply about to be killed. Add the fact that the bond is even stronger with Ellie, given the Armageddon scenario they've been surviving together in. It's a moral quandary, and I don't think Joel was uniquely evil in his decision. Humans aren't unfeeling, pure logic based beings like Dr. Spock, alright. Given the choice, I'd wager most people would make the same decision Joel made.
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Right, so he acted out of selfishness and from that effectively robbed humanity of a cure.
It actually is ok to approach the narrative from both a logical and emotional place. There was no hesitancy in me in wanting to save Ellie. I was also able to look at those actions as monstrously selfish. There’s a reason he’s so infamous across the country in the sequel.
