Tony Ferguson - top 5 lightweight in UFC history?

[Islam Imamate]

Consider this - if Khabib and Tony eventually fight, and Khabib wins. Then Khabib either fights GSP or Conor or Gathje or someone else, and Tony never wins a UFC belt -is he still top 5?

IMO yes because of his win streak. Not only is it the longest in the division's history but half are top 10 guys and he finished 9/12 of the victories in the streak.

Compare that to Conor's LW career where he technically won the ultimate prize but did so while leapfrogging the entire LW division. No one would really argue that Conor has had a better career at LW in the UFC despite winning the belt which Tony has yet to do.

 

[GrantB13]

Yeah. He's beaten almost everyone possible.

 

[agibmxmma]

Everyone doesn't need to hold belts in as high a regard as you do when making all time lists. They leapfrogged Conor ahead of Tony for the LW title shot based on nothing but money. When who fights for the title becomes more about money than merit, the belts lose value.

How many guys have held titles in the UFC, even defended a few times? Plenty. How many guys have won TWELVE fights in a row (about half vs top 10 opponents) and finished 9 of them. That list is what...a couple guys ever maybe?

I'm not saying you can't be fixated on the belt if you want and I'm not saying it has no value at all in this discussion. But big picture, there's no way Tony isn't top 5.

I assume you have never been a Pro Athlete or competed at s very high level for a prolonged period of time, with a mindset like such. Assumptions tend to be way off, but if one was a high level athlete and was not wanting to win a Championship, then I question their true passion within the sport. If judging an athlete or entertainer, one judges their resume and accomplishments first, not the one game or concert that they performed in very well.. that is extra, after the achievements.

You use McGregor as a measuring stick of sorts and yet he he is not anywhere near top 5 either. You say "plenty" have defended titles, yet not many have and those who have, are considered top of their weight classes in doing so. You act as if a title is my only point I make, yet it is only one of few I placed. I could go on and on, picking your reply apart. But it's your opinion, and you are entitled to it.

 

[JustBleed69]

Jed Meshew at MMAFighting wrote today that Tony Ferguson is a top 5 lightweight in UFC history:

"I believe Tony Ferguson is one of the top-5 lightweights ever and based on his accomplishments, should be regarded as a top-5 P4P fighter in the world right now. In another world could easily have been champion, but in this world, he’s a slow starter who is very hittable and relies on otherworldly cardio and self-belief to outlast opponents, and that doesn’t match up all that well against the mentally strong and offensively potent forces that populate the top of the division right now."

https://www.mmafighting.com/2020/4/...alling-out-and-jon-jones-place-in-mma-history

I can't but wonder how a guy whose signature wins are Anthony Pettis and Rafael dos Anos, with only an interim title win over an infected Kevin Lee and no defenses, is considered top 5. Then you look at the short list of champions and he might have a point:

1. BJ Penn
2. Khabib Nurmagomedov
3. Frankie Edgar
4. Benson Henderson.

5.??? Tony Ferguson? Donald Cerrone? Nate Diaz?

As for top-5 P4P in the world - that is a huge stretch.

1. Khabib
2. Tony
3. BJ
4. Edgar

 

[Tyr XIII]

Jed Meshew at MMAFighting wrote today that Tony Ferguson is a top 5 lightweight in UFC history:

"I believe Tony Ferguson is one of the top-5 lightweights ever and based on his accomplishments, should be regarded as a top-5 P4P fighter in the world right now. In another world could easily have been champion, but in this world, he’s a slow starter who is very hittable and relies on otherworldly cardio and self-belief to outlast opponents, and that doesn’t match up all that well against the mentally strong and offensively potent forces that populate the top of the division right now."

https://www.mmafighting.com/2020/4/...alling-out-and-jon-jones-place-in-mma-history

I can't but wonder how a guy whose signature wins are Anthony Pettis and Rafael dos Anos, with only an interim title win over an infected Kevin Lee and no defenses, is considered top 5. Then you look at the short list of champions and he might have a point:

1. BJ Penn
2. Khabib Nurmagomedov
3. Frankie Edgar
4. Benson Henderson.

5.??? Tony Ferguson? Donald Cerrone? Nate Diaz?

As for top-5 P4P in the world - that is a huge stretch.

Tony would melt bj and be do.

frankie in his prime it’s close

Khabib is far better than bj ever was

 

[Noraaq]

Pettis and cowboy are shot fighters, they would lose to most of the top 15 LWs. Tony record was comparable to Khabibs a few years but back now Khabib is much much more impressive, especially considering how dominant he has looked under the brightest lights. That said, Tony is easily a top 5 LW all time, his 15-1 UFC record is outstanding.

Khabib
Tony
Edgar
BJ

 

[Noraaq]

How many times had Wonderboy been KO'd prior to the Pettis fight? Even eating shots from guys like Woodley.

Poirier and Conor both spent much of their careers at 145, someone could say they are good fighters but blown up FW's.

You can nitpick anyone's record if you really want.

Pettis was getting his ass handed to him and landed a lucky shot. He would lose 9/10 to wonderboy, he actually would lose to most of the top 15 LWs as well.

Dustin was 9-1 in LW and had arguably the best collection of scalps out of any current LW prior to facing Khabib. Conor is ridiculously underrated on Sherdog. He was the LW champ and more impressive win than both 2019 Pettis and cowboy combined.

 

[TripTictonic]

I don't necessarily disagree, but one point of debate is measuring a win vs a loss. For example, if Ferguson is winning against lesser fighters like Mike Rio, Danny Castillo and Lando Vannata, while Frankie Edgar was fighting champions like Benson and Henderson and Gray Maynard with more losses.

While any significant win streak in the UFC is impressive, I think quality of opponent, even resulting in losses, can be just as impressive, though harder to measure.

You just named like the 3 least significant wins of Tony’s win streak. lol

 

[GSP1978]

You just named like the 3 least significant wins of Tony’s win streak. lol

That was the point. Went over your head sadly. Most other people got it but I will make it simple for you.

Part of Tony's 12 win streak are against weak opponents. That's not to tear him down or argue against him. That's probably true for anyone with a winning streak (see GSP vs Hardy). It's to show the difficulty in measuring Tony's wins against say losses that Frankie Edgar suffered in title fights.

Are wins against subpar opponents better than losses in title fights?

Hope I made it clear for you.

 

[Fredwreck619]

If you don’t put Ferguson in the top 5 lightweight fighters, then you can’t put Khabib either. They’re literally neck and neck with each other that’s why this fight is so anticipated.

looking at Khabib’s resume, his best win is Dustin Poirier.

Mcgregor, okay he’s a big name. But does he really hold weight in the LW division?
Conor has ONE WIN in the LW division.
ONE.

Al Iaquinta took the fight against Khabib on what, 2 days notice? People try to say Kevin Lee was sick when he fought Tony, what about Iaquinta? 2 days notice!!

So yeah, u gotta he delusional to not think Tony isn’t top 5. Again, he’s literally RIGHT BEHIND KHABIB. So wherever you place Khabib, Tony is right after.

that’s why we need this fight.

 

[Fredwreck619]

That was the point. Went over your head sadly. Most other people got it but I will make it simple for you.

Part of Tony's 12 win streak are against weak opponents. That's not to tear him down or argue against him. That's probably true for anyone with a winning streak (see GSP vs Hardy). It's to show the difficulty in measuring Tony's wins against say losses that Frankie Edgar suffered in title fights.

Are wins against subpar opponents better than losses in title fights?

Hope I made it clear for you.

That was the point. Went over your head sadly. Most other people got it but I will make it simple for you.

Part of Tony's 12 win streak are against weak opponents. That's not to tear him down or argue against him. That's probably true for anyone with a winning streak (see GSP vs Hardy). It's to show the difficulty in measuring Tony's wins against say losses that Frankie Edgar suffered in title fights.

Are wins against subpar opponents better than losses in title fights?

Hope I made it clear for you.

Lmao okay? All fighters have different difficulty of competition in their resume.

Khabib has a bunch of tomato cans as well.

your point?

 

[GSP1978]

Lmao okay? All fighters have different difficulty of competition in their resume.

Khabib has a bunch of tomato cans as well.

your point?

Again, going right over your head. It is clear you will never understand my point because you are fixated on a zero sum game of tearing down fighters and raising fighters.

I'm not criticizing Tony and favouring Khabib. I'm proposing flaws in the metrics that are commonly used to evaluate the top 5 lightweights. A common argument in favour of Tony Ferguson is that he has 12 wins in a row. I agree, that is quite an accomplishment. But is it better than say Frankie Edgar's first 13 fights in the UFC at lightweight? In that time Frankie went 9-3-1, with 6 consecutive title fights.

Some of the more intelligent members might see my point.

 

[mkess101]

Blown up FW's beat pettis and cowboy
I think Al is a blown up FW top and he beat lee twice now

Heck blown up FW MJ beat Tony himself lol



Let's not talk about blown up FW's. It will not look good on Tony.


Ps: Pettis is washed man. You keep bringing up the wonderboy miracle but leave out the Diaz and CDF fights right after. Plus the skid he was on after RDA beat his ass and stole his Mojo. Lost 3 fights in a row then went to 145 and beat Aloe Vera and lost the interim to Holloway thereafter.


Pettis lost to all these fighters before he faced Tony:

- RDA
- Eddie
- Barboza
- Holloway
- Poirier


Stop hyping up the pettis win for Tony. Pettis is not even ranked at LW anymore. He's done. Bellator awaits him and same goes for cowboy




Khabib Bless


View attachment 757883

You just said Pettis can't crack, I wasn't talking about the win itself just the fact he proved he can KO someone stiff.

So Tony and Khabib fight blown up FW's and you care about a fight from 8 years ago is what we learned. Great!

 

[Fredwreck619]

Again, going right over your head. It is clear you will never understand my point because you are fixated on a zero sum game of tearing down fighters and raising fighters.

I'm not criticizing Tony and favouring Khabib. I'm proposing flaws in the metrics that are commonly used to evaluate the top 5 lightweights. A common argument in favour of Tony Ferguson is that he has 12 wins in a row. I agree, that is quite an accomplishment. But is it better than say Frankie Edgar's first 13 fights in the UFC at lightweight? In that time Frankie went 9-3-1, with 6 consecutive title fights.

Some of the more intelligent members might see my point.

Again, everything goes over your head.

you clearly are not intelligent.
Everything goes over your head.

WATCH OUT! There’s another point being made, and it’s going right over your head!
DUCK!

 

[Fredwreck619]

Pettis was getting his ass handed to him and landed a lucky shot. He would lose 9/10 to wonderboy, he actually would lose to most of the top 15 LWs as well.

Dustin was 9-1 in LW and had arguably the best collection of scalps out of any current LW prior to facing Khabib. Conor is ridiculously underrated on Sherdog. He was the LW champ and more impressive win than both 2019 Pettis and cowboy combined.

Pettis was getting his ass handed to him and landed a lucky shot. He would lose 9/10 to wonderboy, he actually would lose to most of the top 15 LWs as well.

Dustin was 9-1 in LW and had arguably the best collection of scalps out of any current LW prior to facing Khabib. Conor is ridiculously underrated on Sherdog. He was the LW champ and more impressive win than both 2019 Pettis and cowboy combined.

What? Conor UNDERRATED?
Lmao now I’ve heard it all.


Conor has ONE WIN AT LW.

ONE FUCKING WIN, back in two thousand fucking sixteen!

That’s what’s making Khabib’s resume?
Wow. Sherdogs are delusional and lame.
Al Iaquinta took the fight like on 8 hr. Notice. He literally just closed escrow on a property and then headed to the closest phone booth and changed from his suit and tie to his ufc underwear, just to fight Khabib.

Go take a look at their resume and you’ll see, Tony’s and Khabib’s aren’t much different. The biggest difference is Khabib has Poirier on his resume.

The Mcg fight don’t count for much besides PPV sales and fame, because it’s just like Stephen A. said, we didn’t learn much from Conor in that Cowboy fight. What did we really see? Not much. McG still has only one fucking win in the LW division.
Get real.

 

[XxWolfXx]

Yes 100%

 

[2EZ]

What are you counting Tony's prime as? He's on an 8 year 12 fight unbeaten streak.

No one in UFC history has been on a win streak anywhere near this long without fighting for the title.

His strength of schedule is very comparable to Khabib's, they even have a common opponents who Tony finished that Khabib took to decision like Tibau and Barboza.

Dont forget Mj who tony LOST to that khabib FINISHED. Funny u left that important stat out

 

[ostlerrage]

Jed Meshew at MMAFighting wrote today that Tony Ferguson is a top 5 lightweight in UFC history:

"I believe Tony Ferguson is one of the top-5 lightweights ever and based on his accomplishments, should be regarded as a top-5 P4P fighter in the world right now. In another world could easily have been champion, but in this world, he’s a slow starter who is very hittable and relies on otherworldly cardio and self-belief to outlast opponents, and that doesn’t match up all that well against the mentally strong and offensively potent forces that populate the top of the division right now."

https://www.mmafighting.com/2020/4/...alling-out-and-jon-jones-place-in-mma-history

I can't but wonder how a guy whose signature wins are Anthony Pettis and Rafael dos Anos, with only an interim title win over an infected Kevin Lee and no defenses, is considered top 5. Then you look at the short list of champions and he might have a point:

1. BJ Penn
2. Khabib Nurmagomedov
3. Frankie Edgar
4. Benson Henderson.

5.??? Tony Ferguson? Donald Cerrone? Nate Diaz?

As for top-5 P4P in the world - that is a huge stretch.

My list would be
Penn
Ferg
Khabib
Edgar.

Ferg obviously ahead of Khabid due to the fleeing factor.

 

[2EZ]

So more or less Neck and Neck . It really comes down to 1 of them losing in the near future to either eachother or somebody else.

It is not neck and neck. Khabib has 4 top 5 wins and tony has 2, which should actually be 1 because every mma fan know cowboy has no right being in the top 5 of any division. He was wrongly rank, he is 10-7 rank at best

 

[Noraaq]

What? Conor UNDERRATED?
Lmao now I’ve heard it all.


Conor has ONE WIN AT LW.

ONE FUCKING WIN, back in two thousand fucking sixteen!

That’s what’s making Khabib’s resume?
Wow. Sherdogs are delusional and lame.
Al Iaquinta took the fight like on 8 hr. Notice. He literally just closed escrow on a property and then headed to the closest phone booth and changed from his suit and tie to his ufc underwear, just to fight Khabib.

Go take a look at their resume and you’ll see, Tony’s and Khabib’s aren’t much different. The biggest difference is Khabib has Poirier on his resume.

The Mcg fight don’t count for much besides PPV sales and fame, because it’s just like Stephen A. said, we didn’t learn much from Conor in that Cowboy fight. What did we really see? Not much. McG still has only one fucking win in the LW division.
Get real.

Conor blasted Cowboy in under a minute. He couldve finished Pettis in the same night.

Al >>>> Lee
Conor and Dustin >>>>>>>>>> Cowboy and Pettis

Their resume was comparable a few years ago but Khabibs resume shits on Tonys now