UFC 265: Lewis vs Gane - Discussion Thread

A bit ahead, but Francis has 2 inches on Gane's reach. And Francis is fast as any heavyweight I've seen, might be able to catch coming in for a jab.

I might hedge my bets, a Francis KO bet and a Gane Decision bet.
 
This feels like a good spot to play with yadong.






kenney doesn’t have the same level of takedowns as a guy like stamann and his striking/pressure will leave him open to big counters


Besides Cheisa +135 I’m not seeing a lot I like here. Think the last two weeks were actually much better for betting.

I have bets on cheisa and Torres. The Torres fight will probably be close and the odds are probably pretty accurate. If she wrestles she can make this much easier. The cardio advantage and the high pace this fight will take place at should be enough to result in Torres edging a decision.

lean aldo, penne and song. Dunno if I’ll play them.

kind of like the main going to decision, which would be me playing either gane points or ud
 
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Hard to rely on KK given her skid I think, even if Penne is a forgiving matchup.

I don't wanna go all out on KK like I did for Hall last week. I'm noticing looking back on several bets I lost recently that I need to watch for fading a fighter who is on the decline. Granted KK just IMO had a series of matchups that just weren't really on her side. Looking at them now it looks like her game just hasn't aged well in comparison to improving fighters. I do think with that train of thought that Penne is also from "the old school" and KK should be able to go out and school her with strikes. It's hard to see Penne taking this one from her.
 
A bit ahead, but Francis has 2 inches on Gane's reach. And Francis is fast as any heavyweight I've seen, might be able to catch coming in for a jab.

I might hedge my bets, a Francis KO bet and a Gane Decision bet.

francis lol
 
Gane sub line at +1000 is outrageous to me, Lewis isn't that hard to takedown and he's very susceptible on the ground. Gane has an assortment of subs he could attack Lewis with, he's high iq and not stupid like oleynik holding on to a scarf hold forever.
That one feels like a good steal and to good to pass up.
 
Think I'll probably back Munoz, Johns and Kape this card. They've got pretty good matchups I think.

Finding myself favoring Aldo the closer the fight gets too, probably wins the first two and then endures hell late. Gane I fedl outclasses Lewis, but his value isn't worth it for now imo.
 
Think I'll probably back Munoz, Johns and Kape this card. They've got pretty good matchups I think.

Finding myself favoring Aldo the closer the fight gets too, probably wins the first two and then endures hell late. Gane I fedl outclasses Lewis, but his value isn't worth it for now imo.
Round 3 Aldo Bro. It's him at his best.
 
Early prelims: 6 pm eastern (3 pm Pacific)
Prelims: 8 pm eastern
Main Card: 10 pm eastern

UFC 265
Houston, Texas, Saturday, August 7, 2021

parlay
+265

Manel Kape -197
Ciryl Gane -335, 4 inch Reach advantage

Johnny Munoz -230
Rafael Fiziev -335

#UFC265


Reading material I found:
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Feb 2021:
Manel Kape is an excellent fighter and one of the best signings in 2020 by the UFC. Kape has been in the cage with the likes of Kai Asakura (twice), Ian McCall, Daniel Barez, Kyoji Horiguchi, Takeya Mizugaki, and Ulka Sasaki. He’s on a three-fight win streak beating Kai Asakura in their rematch for the vacant RIZIN title in his last fight.

Manel Kape is well-rounded but better on the feet. Though from time to time, Kape will engage in takedowns. On the mat, Kape does hold five submission victories. Along with being a submission threat, Kape scrambles very well. Even off his back, Kape is good at getting back to his feet being able to generate space and separate, or even attack with submissions off his back. On the feet, Kape displays athleticism, speed, explosiveness, and diversity. Starting on the outside, Kape will use a lot of feints before blitzing in with explosiveness and combinations with his hands. He’s really good at digging into the body mixing it up. He’s finished with a head kick before and is good at implementing kicks to control the pace of his style.

Manel Kape is a scrappy dude and that comes along with his chin being tested along the way. He goes shot to shot with opponents at times. And through it all, Kape has been wobbled, shaken, and stunned but never put away. Kape has shown to be more powerful and his chin has held up compared to the opposition he’s beat. Defensively he does need tuning everywhere but it’s tough to outwork the “Starboy.” Although he has an iron chin he still gets hit too much and his takedown defense needs some improvement.

While Kape is good off his back, as noted above, there are grapplers that can neutralize him like Ulka Sasaki was able to. That said, I only see Kape losing to top-level guys. I don’t see him as a champion but I see Manel Kape as a top 10 flyweight in the UFC.

Kape has an excellent chin and a tendency to just walk through punches.
  • Striking: A
  • Kickboxing: B-
  • Clinch: C+
  • Wrestling: C+
  • Grappling: B
  • Striking Defense: C+
  • Takedown Defense: C+
  • Cardio: B+
  • Biggest Strength: On the feet
  • Biggest Weakness: Striking defense
..............................................................

August 2020:
Johnny Munoz is a well-accomplished grappler earning a Brazilian jiu-jitsu black belt by the time he was 20-years-old. He comes with a list of accolades, including being a ten-time NABJJF Gold Medalist, Grapplers Quest Advanced Champion, and a three-time No-Gi World Champion/IBJJF (Blue, Purple, Brown).

In MMA Munoz has six submission victories as a professional. A lot of time with a BJJ ace their wrestling struggles in MMA. While that’s not fully the case with Munoz he’s not exactly where he should be at. Munoz does transition to the back standing well and is capable of dropping levels. Striking his way into the clinch of his opponents is a bit of a problem, as he doesn’t cut angles but rather just walks straight in.

Once on the mat, Munoz is extremely dangerous having finished fights via various methods such as ground and pound, heel hook, rear-naked choke, and an armbar. Munoz has seamless grappling easily transitioning and getting dominant . The Hawaiian is one-dimensional being solely a grappler with next to nothing on the feet. Munoz has a decent job but plodding movement and a low stance which means he’s easily hit.

Munoz is always dangerous throughout the fight but has shown his gas tank isn’t all that deep. In my opinion, he should have gone the Contender Series route, as quality of competition is a concern, and he’s yet to be truly tested. If he was to improve in the striking department just a bit, however, he could evolve into a legit 135lb’er. Right now I see him more as a 50/50 fighter. Still a lot of talent with a somewhat high ceiling. Johnny Munoz reminds me of Jesse Arnett, a not-so-great wrestler with excellent grappling/submissions. Perhaps a tad better even.

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Feb 2019:
Rafael Fiziev was born in Kyrgyzstan, moving to Phuket, Thailand, three years ago. Now living in Thailand, he trains with the very accomplished Tiger Muay Thai & MMA camp. Fiziev had a lengthy career as a Muay Thai fighter and also is designated as a Master of Sport in hand-to-hand combat and kickboxing. “Ataman” had over 200 amateur Muay Thai bouts and now holds a pro record of 29-4. He has a long list of accomplishments including being a Kyrgyzstan Muay Thai Champion in 2007, 2008, and 2009, a Kazakhstan IFMA Muay Thai Champion, and winning the silver medal in the World IFMA Muay Thai Championship in 2009.
Ganehas an excellent vocabulary of strikes in his arsenal and fights well from both stances (although he primarily switches to southpaw in order to fire body kicks).

Going back-and-forth between his Muay Thai and MMA career, Fiziev made his MMA debut in July of 2015. While Fiziev has fought in China, South Korea, Thailand, and Kyrgyzstan, he is still working on getting his visa to fight in the United States. He was supposed to fight on the Contender Series this past summer, but the visa issue held him back. He did get a key win shortly after at Titan FC 51, earning him an outright contract with the UFC.

With his background in Muay Thai, expect a lot of knees from Fiziev, as he does a good job using that weapon. To the more casual fans, you will know Fiziev from his back-bending matrix-style avoidance of a head kick in one of his Muay Thai fights that went viral. That clip is a preview of the solid head movement he possesses in the cage.

There is no question Fiziev wants to keep the fight standing. However, he does have a submission victory and a TKO win via ground-and-pound while in the mount. You’ll rarely see “Ataman” shoot for take downs because he is so dangerous on the feet with his aforementioned knees as well as his tendency to break his opponents down with hard leg kicks. Fiziev has the power to put guys away but it’s really his speed mixed in with his crazy explosiveness and his surgical striking/kickboxing that make him special. He hasn’t fought tough competition yet, but I expect a lot out of him.

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June 2019:
Ciryl Gane is a freak athlete who is a two-time national Muay Thai champion.
I believe he is also undefeated in professional Muay Thai at 12-0.

He has all the things that are rare in most heavyweight fighters. That’s athleticism, power, size, and technique. In his three MMA bouts with one submission win, Gane has really showcased his stand-up. He has a strong straight jab he uses often and it set up the overhands that he likes to throw. Gane is unorthodox is the way he throws his strikes like a standing hammer fist and a double punch. That said, he can be a little bit wild but he throws from so many different angles it makes him hard to read. The Frenchman has shown that his Muay Thai is legit as he has excellent knees, mixing it in with his strikes well.

He’s only gone beyond the first round once in his MMA career but has done so several times in his Muay Thai career. He’s shown with the pace he throws that he has some good cardio. He’s good at range with his looping hooks, overhands, kicks, stabbing jabs, and his 83″ reach. When the fight is in close quarters he has good control, elbows, and his fantastic use of knees.

The big issue with Gane is the unknown. He’s only 3-0 and hasn’t really been tested. We don’t know he reacts when getting hit flush and more so how is he off his back. He hasn’t really ended up on his back but hasn’t had an opponent legitimately hunting for the takedown. It’s hard to say how he will do long term, but this is a fantastic signing.

  • Striking: A
  • Kickboxing: C
  • Clinch: A
  • Wrestling: D
  • Grappling: D
  • Striking Defense: B-
  • Takedown Defense: ?
  • Cardio: B-
  • Biggest Strength: Muay Thai
  • Biggest Weakness: Lack of Experience
Feb 2021:

Gane has an excellent vocabulary of strikes in his arsenal and fights well from both stances (although he primarily switches to southpaw in order to fire body kicks).

His speed and footwork are going to be a nightmare for most heavyweight contenders and you could see Junior Dos Santos look visibly dejected after the first round against him.

While primarily a striker, Gane possesses some grappling acumen and he defeated his first two UFC opponents by way of submission.

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Quotes of the week:

Former UFC ref John McCarthy:
“I have no problem with an interim title when you have a champion that’s out, you have a champion who is hurt and can’t compete. You don’t want that division put on hold. This is the one time where I’m going to look and say I think the UFC is wrong. Most of the time I think they’re right with their interim titles, but this one makes no sense, because it doesn’t matter who wins this fight, be it Ciryl Gane or be it Derrick Lewis. They’re both very good fighters, and I really enjoy watching both of them. I’m not going to consider them a heavyweight champion. There’s a guy named Francis Ngannou that’s sitting there, and he’s waiting, and he’s got the real belt. It doesn’t matter what happens in this fight. You can take Francis Ngannou and not even have Derrick Lewis and Ciryl Gane, and put Jon Jones, and if Jon Jones wins, Jon Jones is going to be the heavyweight champion. It doesn’t matter who wins this fight, and that’s why it doesn’t make sense for me. As an interim championship, there was no need for it.”

Ciryl Gane:
"For this fight I'm gonna do perfectly 'Bon Gamin.' I'm gonna move well. I'm gonna touch him and he never touch me. I think I'm gonna do that... I think his weakness is he's a little bit flat footed, and that's good for me. This is really good for me. I think I'm gonna move a lot on my feet and I'm gonna touch him. I'm going in out, in out.

Everybody knows what is the strength of Derrick Lewis. Everybody knows that. And he knows, he really knows that and that's why he's had some success in his former fights... That's why this guy is really dangerous. I'm gonna be careful of that.

I don’t want one fight. I don’t want one fighter. I want to fight everybody. This is a sport to me. Every fight I’ve had I’ve fought with a good feeling, not with a bad feeling. I just want to put on a great performance for the fans. No matter who [I fight], I want to do my job.

No, I think it’s going to be Francis for sure. If I beat Derrick and I have the [interim] belt, this is a ticket to be the [top] contender,” he says, shutting down the idea of defending his interim title against another contender. No, no, no. I think this makes more sense.

No, that’s not my target. That’s really not my target. Obviously, it’s better for business. But that’s really not my target,” he says of remaining undefeated. “Every time I go to the cage, every time I say, ‘Okay, I can win. But I can lose.’ Anything is possible. I don’t know what’s going to happen. So yes, I’m ready to lose. Seriously, I’m already proud of myself if I lose. I’ve never lost in my life in MMA or Muay Thai, but I’m not afraid of that. I’m really not afraid of that.”

I plan to finish the fight before the fifth round. This is my mission and I think it is achievable. This is possible, because if you look at Lewis's statistics, each of his battles - whether it is a victory or a defeat - it ends before the final bell. I will apply pressure, thow a lot of punches - I will make good statistics. If I win, I plan to do it by KO. This is my prediction."




An article from February 2021 says 3 fight win streak? He was before coming to the ufc but he's lost two in a row now.

Nevertheless, appreciate ya
 
I was gonna do a super square parlay of Gane + Nunes + Torres/Hill Over 2.5, but Nunes is gone. I think the latter is a -500-550 line and is probably gonna open -350-400. Early leans are Gane DEC/SUB, Aldo DEC, Chiesa DEC, Torres DEC, Kenney DEC, Fiziev TKO/DEC, Menifield TKO, Penne DEC/SUB.

Gane could definitely get tds and might lock up a leg, but I think he just evades Lewis and mixes in tds to seal rounds like he did against Rozenstruik. Lewis barely has a punchers' chance and I'm not that interested in the props and over/under.

Aldo is still the faster striker and has the td defense to stop it from hitting the ground even if he's older and cutting weight. He should be able to dictate the striking and avoid any subs if it hits the ground. I'm waiting on Munhoz TKO as a possible hedge.

Chiesa can grind, but Luque can definitely finish him. I think Chiesa hasn't faced a powerful striker since Masvidal and Luque could definitely crack him at some point or maybe club and sub. Chiesa at +130 is nice, but I think it's risky. I'll be looking for the props to hedge if I play Chiesa.

Torres should be good enough in the striking and grappling to take this just like last time. I see very little chance of a finish in this. I don't know if Hill is starting to feel her age, but 36 is getting up there. Either one by DEC is the right play and the Over 2.5 should have some value even if it's a steep price.

I wasn't high on Kenney until the Wood fight and Cruz is a totally different level than Yadong. I'm interested in the props more than either side as the line seems correct.

Fiziev is something else with his striking. I know Green can wrestle and grind, but I don't know if he can win the first 2 with just the grappling.

Herman should have been done early in his last one and I think Menifield has a good matchup here. He's unreliable, but his power should be enough to finish it. Might hedge with Herman SUB, but probably not worth it. Doubt this will be a big play if it's a play.

Kowalkiewicz has never been the same since the diagnosis and going vegan. It's hard to think she'll win any fight even against Penne. Maybe a hedge with her DEC line, but otherwise I think Penne gets her down and gets it done.

I don't really care that much about the other fights. There's probably a ton of value there, but I'm not familiar with the fighters and there isn't a lot of tape.
 
Since i had no plays on last week's fight card i already have a few bets in mind for UFC 265.

I really do think Gane gets it done and early. Lewis has no ground game. I do see the potential of a possible early sub to finish Lewis so for the main event i already have Gane problary by sub with a hedge play.

These are my bets for now.
Johnny Munoz
Ode Osbourne
Menifield
Gane.
Just wait till Lewis Just Stands Up
 
Depends on the matchup I think, Munhoz will pressure him a lot throughout the fight and I expect Aldo to flag sooner than later.

Although maybe the body shots will force Pedro to back down.

That's true, but aldo is experienced man. Gone with alot of pressure fighters.

Pedro doesn't mix alot up in his fights. Too keep aldo guessing, i think it's easier to gameplan for Pedro than many. He has a monster of a chin and he relys on it heavily.

A stiff jab; if they are still in the pocket he follows with a big right hand. I trust wholeheartedly in Aldo's boxing to out do him in this.

A calf kick; it they pull back their leg he does a snap kick a bit higher. I trust wholeheartedly in Aldo's muay Thai, he checked every Vito calf kick.

There's a few more elements but still. Also can split his hands between Pedro's face and body.

Pedro wears damage real bad because of the scar tissue. His body, it can't hold him up like his chin.
 
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I was looking to bet on hall for that fight too, then I saw a statistic on r/MMA that if he doesn't get you on the first roll then he doesn't get you.

Of course, after the fight people were saying it was obvious and it only works on aging dudes on the decline.

I think halls style can work against guys of similar athleticism. BJ Pens etc
I think he means Uriah Hall not Ryan but idk
 
Is Chiesa the biggest welterweight in the UFC?

Remember, Usman has the lower body of a bantamweight.
 
Gane DEC seems popular this week. I honestly thing he is live for the KO.

Lewis has been hurt to the body by Volkov, Browne and JDS just from the top of my head. He will be smashed to the body for 5 rounds by Gane.

Lewis plays possum alot, however, he may be a little vulnerable to hard body shots. And Gane splits his strikes very evenly; head, body and legs.

I'll lay of the Gane decision, thanks man.
 
Osbourne is jumping from 145 to 125 in the span of 6 months. Thats super fadeable, especially against a legit fighter like Kape.

He's a natural 135er though and claims he cuts no weight to make 135, so I have to think he makes the drop fairly easily.
 
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