International US Drone Strike kills 6 children

[ElKarlo]

To quote Chomsky, all our presidents after WW2 are war criminals.

Many before then could probably be considered war criminals too. Looking at you, Andrew Jackson.

Eisenhower wasn’t. Dude actually had good foreign policy stances.
Andrew Jackson would out the entire court into a headlock and make them eat their charges. There was no stopping that madman. Think even Teddy couldn’t stop him

 

[Anewt]

Lol suddenly it's who cares... man you guys are switching positions fast. I guess drone strikes only matter when it's the other team in charge.

Rip to that family.

 

[jrams]

The same U.S. intelligence agencies that were unable to prevent the attack on the Kabul airport were able to track down and drone the person responsible for planning it within one day.

 

[G-19]

Yup, all of a sudden it's politically advantageous to clutch pearls over this when it's been going on for 20 years.

While this is true, this one was a particularly big fuck up. It’s especially heinous because it was paraded around as a much needed “win” after ISIS killed 13 Marines that should’ve been better protected. I was telling my dad they were full of shit when they claimed to have killed a high level ISIS member responsible for the attack.

As someone who has extensive knowledge of intel operations in the Middle East and drone operations I knew that story was garbage. We were operating with almost no assets on the ground. All agents, SOF units, and Afghani nationals working with us were either pulled out or in hiding. How can they achieve such a quick strike without corroborated intelligence? It was difficult to get real actionable Intel quickly when we were operating at our peak over there.

 

[surgeyou1]

Just our wonderful president committing war crimes and murdering children to absolutely no benefit other than to look good in the eyes of his dwindling base of shitty people.

Yup the adults are truly back in the room.

How many do you think Trump killed?

 

[Holic]

How many do you think Trump killed?

"B-b-b-but Trump!"

Last I checked Trump didn't do many airstrikes that exclusively killed Americans and kids. He didn't have to cause he wasn't a giant fuck up like Biden is.

 

[Hadron90]

Ok, so there are photos showing him loading water in the car. But is there audio? Can we be 100%, beyond any doubt at all, absolutely sure, that he did not say the n-word?

 

[SakurabasEar]

Nobody cares. There will be intel fuck ups in any war and since war is about killing people, these fuck ups end in death. At least we are out now, or are we

I've seen this argument presented often when obama was in office. I see things haven't changed with biden.

Somebody needs to be held to account, not just for the family but for our principals. If you or I hit a family driving, we'd be held to account.

Look at whos on the armed services committee.

 

[Ruprecht]

I guess Biden really wanted to underline why it was better for the US and it's allies to get out.
From what I read all it took was this guy driving the same model car and in the same area at the time when Isis had launched a rocket attack using the same or similar vehicle, and they went ahead despite knowing that the house this guy was at was not the Isis safe house they'd been observing previously.
Not exactly a high standard of evidence for executing people.
All too familiar story. Reminds me of the on board footage from that helicopter that gunned down a camera crew that was eventually released by wikileaks.
Tip of the iceberg given how much relative coverage the War in Afghanistan has recieved.
Hate to think what war crimes have been perpetrated with the last decade or so of virtually unreported special forces activity in East Africa by the US and it's allies.

 

[Deleted member 499399]

I wouldn’t be very surprised. After losing soldiers to a terrorist attack and amid the chaos I can see why the US military would err on the side of blowing people up. This is exactly why it’s better that we are out of there.
There were a lot of people in this forum saying we should blow up half the country on our way out. That probably would have killed some Afghanis.

 

[wonderbread]

Independent investigations by The New York Times and The Washington Post are calling into question the U.S. military claims that its Aug. 29 drone strike in Kabul destroyed a car operated by an ISIS-K sympathizer, which allegedly contained explosives destined for the Kabul airport.

The U.S. Central Command initial statement described the strike as a "self-defense" operation that eliminated an "imminent ISIS-K threat" to the airport. "Significant secondary explosions from the vehicle indicated the presence of a substantial amount of explosive material." In a press conference Sept. 1, chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff Gen. Mark Milley called it a "righteous strike" that correctly followed procedures.

But the Times and Post investigations were unable to find evidence of any explosives in the car, which they say was driven by 43-year-old Zemari Ahmadi, an engineer working for the U.S. aid group Nutrition and Education International, which aims to eliminate malnutrition in Afghanistan. Family members told the Times that Ahmadi had applied for refugee resettlement in the United States.

Ahmadi was not the only person killed by the drone strike. Ahmadi's relatives told the Times that 10 members of their family were killed, including seven children.

Military officials had said the driver seemed to have loaded explosives into the car that day, but security camera footage obtained by the Times shows the alleged explosives were likely containers used to carry water home to his family. "I filled the containers myself, and helped him load them into the trunk," a guard told the Times.

The Times and Post analyses also called into question military assertions of "secondary explosions" in the courtyard. Times reporters could find no evidence of a second explosion at the scene. Experts pointed to the lack of collapsed walls or destroyed vegetation. "It seriously questions the credibility of the intelligence or technology utilized to determine this was a legitimate target," security consultant Chris Cobb-Smith told the Times.

Explosives experts told the Post that the damage was mostly caused by the Hellfire missile fired by the drone. If there was a secondary explosion, two experts said, it was likely caused by ignited fuel vapors.

"My theory is: The [Hellfire] explosives themselves ruptured the gas tank, released the vapor, and because of the fire that happened a short time afterward, it detonated and caused something that may have been explosion-like," said Ferenc Dalnoki-Veress, a professor at the Middlebury Institute of International Studies.

Steven Kwon, president of California-based Nutrition and Education International, told the Post that the white sedan belonged to the organization. After Ahmadi met at the NEI compound to discuss an emergency food aid program for displaced people, he spent the rest of the day running errands, Kwon said.

Kwon denied that NEI has any association with ISIS-K. "We're trying to help people," he told the Post. "Why would we have explosives to kill people?"


https://www.npr.org/2021/09/11/1036...eted-aid-worker-carrying-water-not-explosives

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/09/10/world/asia/us-air-strike-drone-kabul-afghanistan-isis.html




So Biden bungled getting out of Afghanistan so poorly he got nearly 100 Civilians/Soldiers killed and his response is to drone strike an aid worker and his family including 7 of his children while said aid worker was unloading water. The guy worked for a US Aid Group based out of California.

So this is the big bad ISIS member we got, huh? Imagine fucking up so badly you kill not only an innocent man, but a good man while he's doing good deeds and his family including 7 fucking kids. Biden needed a win so badly after repeatedly fucking up in Afghanistan that he killed a bunch of innocents and said it was ISIS that we got. Absolute clown show. RIP to the family, shame they got smeared by the press Worldwide, glad to see some press finally show some integrity.

That's sad. It's funny how the right could care less about these below deaths, but they are of course no political value at the moment..
American service members killed in Afghanistan through April: 2,448.

U.S. contractors: 3,846.

Afghan national military and police: 66,000.

Other allied service members, including from other NATO member states: 1,144.

Afghan civilians: 47,245.

Taliban and other opposition fighters: 51,191.

Aid workers: 444.

Journalists: 72.

 

[Crom Cruach]

The US Air Force Historical Division wrote a report in response to the international concern about the bombing that remained classified until December 1978. It said that there were 110 factories and 50,000 workers in the city supporting the German war effort at the time of the raid. According to the report, there were aircraft components factories; a poison gas factory (Chemische Fabrik Goye and Company); an anti-aircraft and field gun factory (Lehman); an optical goods factory (Zeiss Ikon AG); and factories producing electrical and X-ray apparatus (Koch & Sterzel [de] AG); gears and differentials (Saxoniswerke); and electric gauges (Gebrüder Bassler). It also said there were barracks, hutted camps, and a munitions storage depot.
The USAF report also states that two of Dresden's traffic routes were of military importance: north-south from Germany to Czechoslovakia, and east–west along the central European uplands. The city was at the junction of the Berlin-Prague-Vienna railway line, as well as the Munich-Breslau, and Hamburg-Leipzig lines.Colonel Harold E. Cook, a US POW held in the Friedrichstadt marshaling yard the night before the attacks, later said that "I saw with my own eyes that Dresden was an armed camp: thousands of German troops, tanks and artillery and miles of freight cars loaded with supplies supporting and transporting German logistics towards the east to meet the Russians".

If you want to learn more you can read the official reasoning why Dresden was bombed in a pdf here.
We did the same thing to another city, Pforzheim, later that month but you never hear about it. We firebombed the shit out of Hamburg in 43 as well.

Don't want to derail the thread further. But in 2004-09 the city of Dresden contracted a committee of the top German History Professors to research the bombings and give the definitive account of the incident.

These were their main findings.

1. The city was a legitimate military target for reasons you outlined above and it can't be overstated how important the rail hub was to the logistics of the Nazi war effort and in particular their slave labour camps.

2. Claims of 300000 are at the wilder end of the claims of the death toll (by holocost denier David Irvine). The historians tracked birth certs, documentation, work permits, etc and established the the upper end of people killed in Dresden (across all air raids) is 25000. Still a lot and an atrocious way to die tbf.

3. The claims of Dresden as a war crime come from Nazis. Literally the literal Nazis, not those other literally Nazis who vote Republican. Goebbels issued press releases decrying the attack on a civilian city and beefing up the death toll as a propoganda stunt.

4. The literally literal Nazi propoganda has always had currency in right wing mythology with many people repeating it without knowing where it came from. German Neo Nazis like to stage rallys in the city much to the chagrin if the locals.

So, in conclusion...
Are Bomber Harris and Winston Churchill cunts who should rot in hell?
Yes.

Was the bombing of Dresden justified on a military basis.
Also yes.

Was the military action particularly egregious in the context of the time.
No.

Are German historians considered experts on German history by the Anglo speaking world?
Nah, we know more about their country than they do.

 

[surgeyou1]

"B-b-b-but Trump!"

Last I checked Trump didn't do many airstrikes that exclusively killed Americans and kids. He didn't have to cause he wasn't a giant fuck up like Biden is.

Lmao. This is a joke right?

 

[Deleted member 499399]

That's sad. It's funny how the right could care less about these below deaths, but they are of course no political value at the moment..
American service members killed in Afghanistan through April: 2,448.

U.S. contractors: 3,846.

Afghan national military and police: 66,000.

Other allied service members, including from other NATO member states: 1,144.

Afghan civilians: 47,245.

Taliban and other opposition fighters: 51,191.

Aid workers: 444.

Journalists: 72.

That's like 170000 dead people that nobody ever talks about but this one can be blamed on Biden so it's a tragedy(if true).

 

[PrinceOfPain]

Nobody cares.

Christ.

 

[Morning Star]

That's sad. It's funny how the right could care less about these below deaths, but they are of course no political value at the moment..
American service members killed in Afghanistan through April: 2,448.

U.S. contractors: 3,846.

Afghan national military and police: 66,000.

Other allied service members, including from other NATO member states: 1,144.

Afghan civilians: 47,245.

Taliban and other opposition fighters: 51,191.

Aid workers: 444.

Journalists: 72.

*Couldn't care less

It's almost as if both are wrong. I don't see anyone championing any of that on here so you're clearly deflecting like a lot of sad people ITT.

It's ok to be critical of someone that takes a victory lap when they kill the wrong man and his family while he's doing charity. Especially when it was done entirely to cover their own ass after a previous mistake. Other people dying doesn't mean your guy should be above criticism.

 

[KnightTemplar]

Independent investigations by The New York Times and The Washington Post are calling into question the U.S. military claims that its Aug. 29 drone strike in Kabul destroyed a car operated by an ISIS-K sympathizer, which allegedly contained explosives destined for the Kabul airport.

The U.S. Central Command initial statement described the strike as a "self-defense" operation that eliminated an "imminent ISIS-K threat" to the airport. "Significant secondary explosions from the vehicle indicated the presence of a substantial amount of explosive material." In a press conference Sept. 1, chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff Gen. Mark Milley called it a "righteous strike" that correctly followed procedures.

But the Times and Post investigations were unable to find evidence of any explosives in the car, which they say was driven by 43-year-old Zemari Ahmadi, an engineer working for the U.S. aid group Nutrition and Education International, which aims to eliminate malnutrition in Afghanistan. Family members told the Times that Ahmadi had applied for refugee resettlement in the United States.

Ahmadi was not the only person killed by the drone strike. Ahmadi's relatives told the Times that 10 members of their family were killed, including seven children.

Military officials had said the driver seemed to have loaded explosives into the car that day, but security camera footage obtained by the Times shows the alleged explosives were likely containers used to carry water home to his family. "I filled the containers myself, and helped him load them into the trunk," a guard told the Times.

The Times and Post analyses also called into question military assertions of "secondary explosions" in the courtyard. Times reporters could find no evidence of a second explosion at the scene. Experts pointed to the lack of collapsed walls or destroyed vegetation. "It seriously questions the credibility of the intelligence or technology utilized to determine this was a legitimate target," security consultant Chris Cobb-Smith told the Times.

Explosives experts told the Post that the damage was mostly caused by the Hellfire missile fired by the drone. If there was a secondary explosion, two experts said, it was likely caused by ignited fuel vapors.

"My theory is: The [Hellfire] explosives themselves ruptured the gas tank, released the vapor, and because of the fire that happened a short time afterward, it detonated and caused something that may have been explosion-like," said Ferenc Dalnoki-Veress, a professor at the Middlebury Institute of International Studies.

Steven Kwon, president of California-based Nutrition and Education International, told the Post that the white sedan belonged to the organization. After Ahmadi met at the NEI compound to discuss an emergency food aid program for displaced people, he spent the rest of the day running errands, Kwon said.

Kwon denied that NEI has any association with ISIS-K. "We're trying to help people," he told the Post. "Why would we have explosives to kill people?"


https://www.npr.org/2021/09/11/1036...eted-aid-worker-carrying-water-not-explosives

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/09/10/world/asia/us-air-strike-drone-kabul-afghanistan-isis.html




So Biden bungled getting out of Afghanistan so poorly he got nearly 100 Civilians/Soldiers killed and his response is to drone strike an aid worker and his family including 7 of his children while said aid worker was unloading water. The guy worked for a US Aid Group based out of California.

So this is the big bad ISIS member we got, huh? Imagine fucking up so badly you kill not only an innocent man, but a good man while he's doing good deeds and his family including 7 fucking kids. Biden needed a win so badly after repeatedly fucking up in Afghanistan that he killed a bunch of innocents and said it was ISIS that we got. Absolute clown show. RIP to the family, shame they got smeared by the press Worldwide, glad to see some press finally show some integrity.

 

[Fox by the Sea]

what was he doing dressed like a normal afghan?
that's kinda suspicious.

 

[DespicablePeep]

We are fed fake news by the media more than the Russians in facebook, yet people still take them seriously.

These are the kids which have been killed

 

[DespicablePeep]

this is absurd