What do you think about the new Bellator champs?

[tehMoose]

AJ McKee 18-0
Yaroslav Amosov 26-0 - (4x world sambo champ)
Valentin Moldavsky 11-1 - (2x world sambo champ and 1 time european sambo champ)


They got some really high level champs recently. Can't say the same about the UFC champs, it's a constant downgrade there (Moreno, Sterling, Oliveira, Jan, Rose...) Not even their families think they are the best in the world.

A couple of years ago these were the champs:

Minakov or Moldavsky at HW
McKee or Usman at LW
Magomedov at BW

and they would have the perfect lineup of champs, imo

 

[TorontoTO]

Skill wise, Top notch, marketability wise, Besides McKee, not that great

 

[GueseGuy]

The level continues to go up. Wait until Tiger Magomedov gets that belt!

 

[SokoudjouFanboy]

I think they're typically better then they were 5 years ago and certainly a decade ago. In aggregate you can't put them above UFC champs, but considering as a promotion they have been playing with the deck stacked against them from jump? I think it's a big promotional accomplishment to have the champions Bellator does right now. The divisions are deeper then ever, not UFC deep but only shallow in comparison to the UFC who hold all the cards due to evil tactics. I don't think you need to downplay the UFC champions as fighters to say this though.

 

[Hellowhosthat]

AJ is great.

Amasov is decent but I think Logan Storley beats him over five rounds.

Moldavsky is boring as shit and I fucking hate him.

 

[careto]

AJ is great.

Amasov is decent but I think Logan Storley beats him over five rounds.

Moldavsky is boring as shit and I fucking hate him.

He came through on the main event, though. He still has time to turn into a more Nemkov or Tokov style of fighter.

 

[careto]

I think they're typically better then they were 5 years ago and certainly a decade ago. In aggregate you can't put them above UFC champs, but considering as a promotion they have been playing with the deck stacked against them from jump? I think it's a big promotional accomplishment to have the champions Bellator does right now. The divisions are deeper then ever, not UFC deep but only shallow in comparison to the UFC who hold all the cards due to evil tactics. I don't think you need to downplay the UFC champions as fighters to say this though.

Yeah, both of them have great champions, just because one org has great champs doesnt make the other ones into illegitimate. I think all of those UFC champs would do great in Bellator and vice versa

 

[Hellowhosthat]

He came through on the main event, though. He still has time to turn into a more Nemkov or Tokov style of fighter.

I don't see him turning into a Nemkov type fighter lol. He might be okay against people who can nullify his wrestling and force him to stand up, but if he can win the wrestling I think he'll follow his boring takedown, hold position, rinse, repeat gameplan.

 

[Hellowhosthat]

I think they're typically better then they were 5 years ago and certainly a decade ago. In aggregate you can't put them above UFC champs, but considering as a promotion they have been playing with the deck stacked against them from jump? I think it's a big promotional accomplishment to have the champions Bellator does right now. The divisions are deeper then ever, not UFC deep but only shallow in comparison to the UFC who hold all the cards due to evil tactics. I don't think you need to downplay the UFC champions as fighters to say this though.

@tehMoose sometimes wakes up in the middle of the night screaming "FUCK THE UFC", you have to excuse him a bit.

 

[careto]

I don't see him turning into a Nemkov type fighter lol. He might be okay against people who can nullify his wrestling and force him to stand up, but if he can win the wrestling I think he'll follow his boring takedown, hold position, rinse, repeat gameplan.

I dont mean that he will become a wrecking machine like Nemkov but, to me I've always seen Nemkov and Tokov with very similar styles; Both have very complete games but Nemkov is more of a striker with complete grappling and Tokov is more of a grappler with good striking. Moldovsky is more of a grappler with shit atriking and 0 power, but maybe, maaaaybe he can turn into a grappler with solid striking.

 

[GeneTunney7]

McKee is a fascinating one, might be the best in the world at present. Pitbull took out Chandler, who was close to winning the LW belt, and McKee made him look like an amateur. And Amosov has a Khabib like record and made easy work of Lima, who is a great litmus test for gauging top five-ten WW talent. Does he beat Usman? Probably not, but he could definitely have a shot vs him and and the top WW's. The gap people thought existed between the two worlds just is not there, and we have seen that with Eddie winning the belt, Chandler challenging for it and a who's who of UFC fighters going over and getting beat. The power of the UFC marketing machine is real, but it does not mean there are fighters out there that could not beat the top UFC guys.

As far as marketability: was Mayweather "marketable"? He was a point fighting little guy in the age of knockout artist heavyweights, but he kept winning and became the biggest draw in boxing history. Winning ad keeping on winning is he surest way to build a following. And if these type of guys can find a De La Hoya, McGregor or Sonnen like A-side dance partner, it can really push them over the top.

 

[Kryptt]

Like all 3 and will be tuning in. Mold is a bit too grindy but meh, not like Hump and Thump, etc. is going away anytime soon.

 

[Thesnake101]

Booo, don't hate my boy Moreno. He's looked stellar since coming back and already did pretty good against the big bad russian in his weight class.

 

[Hellowhosthat]

Booo, don't hate my boy Moreno. He's looked stellar since coming back and already did pretty good against the big bad russian in his weight class.

He hates everyone in the UFC lol, don't worry about it.

 

[HuskySamoan]

I think Bellator invested aggressigely in Eastern European talent like Moldavsky, Amosov, Magomedov, Nemkov, Shabily, Tokov etc who were all to be quite honest....No brainers for the UFC to sign but they typically don't like investing in high level prospects internationally because they have markets that value them so theyd have to pay more, where they can farm US talent for pennies on the dollar thats better for their major demographics anyways. This of course is nothing new for Bellator we saw the past generations of Minakov, Saranavskiy, Khasublaev, Vasilevsky, Shahbulat, Blagoi etc But it does seem they're getting them younger and more polished prospects now which is awesome.

They also heavily invested in the US wrestling prospects very young into their MMA careers like Caldwell, Fortune, Joey Davis, Storley, Honeycutt, Aaron Pico etc. Over the last few years which I think is similar to the Eastern Block strategy, long term a great plan for growing talent.

Right now as talent rises and or is acquired in Bellator, there really is little good tests for them until they reach the top 5 of the division and even then its quite...mediocre sometimes.

Heavyweight Ryan Bader? Irrelevant.

Light Heavyweight Nemkov? Top 10 level LHW talent, I think the LHW is shallow in the UFC and Nemkov could potentially be a threat to the title. Young, strong, fairly athletic and well rounded.

Middleweight Mousasi? Well I think Moose is still a top 10 MW. Do I think he can beat Izzy? Not now, maybe the Mousasi who fought Kyotaro or something but hes about 80 professional fights into his career and in his late 30s now. Mousasi has always been one of the most skilled fighters in MMA who could never really put it together when it counted most. He wasn't impressive vs Shlemenko or Lavato either.

Welterweight Amosov? Strong, young, undefeated. I think he is a top 10 guy probably but currently may be overrated. We all know Lima can bang but he really hasn't shown us since the Askren loss if he can handle a wrestler and his cardio when guys wear on him is exceptionally bad. How good is Amosov vs how badly was Limas weaknesses exploited? He didnt look amazing vs Storley who I see as nothing more than another Wrestler trying to make it in MMA.

Lightweight Patricio? He isn't someone who would be able to keep his head above water at 155lbs for long vs talented prospects and top guys, the size is too much. He did catch chandler though.

Featherweight Antonio McKee probably the most exciting dude outside the UFC right now. Not sure after Patricio and Caldwell being dispatched in 1 round each whos next for him at Bellator though. The division isn't exactly exciting. Id love to see him vs many UFC guys though.

Bantamweight, theres no champ but none of their guys stand out to me anyways.

 

[Hellowhosthat]

I think Bellator invested aggressigely in Eastern European talent like Moldavsky, Amosov, Magomedov, Nemkov, Shabily, Tokov etc who were all to be quite honest....No brainers for the UFC to sign but they typically don't like investing in high level prospects internationally because they have markets that value them so theyd have to pay more, where they can farm US talent for pennies on the dollar thats better for their major demographics anyways. This of course is nothing new for Bellator we saw the past generations of Minakov, Saranavskiy, Khasublaev, Vasilevsky, Shahbulat, Blagoi etc But it does seem they're getting them younger and more polished prospects now which is awesome.

They also heavily invested in the US wrestling prospects very young into their MMA careers like Caldwell, Fortune, Joey Davis, Storley, Honeycutt, Aaron Pico etc. Over the last few years which I think is similar to the Eastern Block strategy, long term a great plan for growing talent.

Right now as talent rises and or is acquired in Bellator, there really is little good tests for them until they reach the top 5 of the division and even then its quite...mediocre sometimes.

Heavyweight Ryan Bader? Irrelevant.

Light Heavyweight Nemkov? Top 10 level LHW talent, I think the LHW is shallow in the UFC and Nemkov could potentially be a threat to the title. Young, strong, fairly athletic and well rounded.

Middleweight Mousasi? Well I think Moose is still a top 10 MW. Do I think he can beat Izzy? Not now, maybe the Mousasi who fought Kyotaro or something but hes about 80 professional fights into his career and in his late 30s now. Mousasi has always been one of the most skilled fighters in MMA who could never really put it together when it counted most. He wasn't impressive vs Shlemenko or Lavato either.

Welterweight Amosov? Strong, young, undefeated. I think he is a top 10 guy probably but currently may be overrated. We all know Lima can bang but he really hasn't shown us since the Askren loss if he can handle a wrestler and his cardio when guys wear on him is exceptionally bad. How good is Amosov vs how badly was Limas weaknesses exploited? He didnt look amazing vs Storley who I see as nothing more than another Wrestler trying to make it in MMA.

Lightweight Patricio? He isn't someone who would be able to keep his head above water at 155lbs for long vs talented prospects and top guys, the size is too much. He did catch chandler though.

Featherweight Antonio McKee probably the most exciting dude outside the UFC right now. Not sure after Patricio and Caldwell being dispatched in 1 round each whos next for him at Bellator though. The division isn't exactly exciting. Id love to see him vs many UFC guys though.

Bantamweight, theres no champ but none of their guys stand out to me anyways.

Lol as if poor Sergio Pettis is so irrelevant you didn't notice he was champ.

 

[HuskySamoan]

Lol as if poor Sergio Pettis is so irrelevant you didn't notice he was champ.

He's champ now? Thats sad, dude couldn't hang.

 

[Hellowhosthat]

He's champ now? Thats sad, dude couldn't hang.

Yeah, although in retrospect his last BW loss to Rob Font doesn't look too bad.

 

[CorninginChristianburg]

Welterweight Amosov? Strong, young, undefeated. I think he is a top 10 guy probably but currently may be overrated. We all know Lima can bang but he really hasn't shown us since the Askren loss if he can handle a wrestler and his cardio when guys wear on him is exceptionally bad. How good is Amosov vs how badly was Limas weaknesses exploited? He didnt look amazing vs Storley who I see as nothing more than another Wrestler trying to make it in MMA.

I did like your post. I will say on this though. WW is the wrestler's division. It always has been probably always will be, it's the bodyweight at which wrestling tactics are the most effective. Takedowns are most worth the effort, cardio is generally high enough, holding fighters down is most reliable, striking/finishing power is low enough. And you can see how historically in the UFC the WW champions be it Matt Hughes, GSP, Johny Hendricks, Tyron Woodley or Kamaru Usman, all have that wrestling background. This is absolutely not true for all divisions. For example, wrestling is harder to do in bantamweight because you simply can't generate the same pressure from the seatbelt position or from back mount, or from the clinch. Wrestling is also less efficient at heavyweight because it requires a lot of cardio, and because the higher in weight class you go, the higher the finishing rate, heavyweight having the highest finishing rate. So a single knockout punch can negate 14 minutes of good wrestling work. Welterweight in many ways is the sweet spot for wrestlers.

There is no question that you can lay and pray your way to the top of the WW division, in any promotion. I think it's fair to question Lima's ground game. However, do you expect better from Stephen Thompson? Vicente Luque? Those are inevitably boring fights. Thompson said after his last fight with Burns that the reason he stood at such a distance from Burns and rarely threw strikes was because he didn't feel comfortable against the takedown. A fight between Amosov and a striker in the UFC would almost necessarily involve endless backpedaling and circling by the striker.

Even amongst good grapplers, there are levels. Leon Edwards is not a bad grappler, but against Kamaru Usman he didn't have much to do. Gilbert Burns is not a bad grappler. Amosov is on another level compared to these two, he truly is the best grappler outside the UFC since Ben Askren. And the UFC's designated grapplers in that division, Michael Chiesa and Neil Magny, with due respect to them, they are solid competitors and good fighters, but still there are levels.

Now would he beat Usman? Maybe not. It really depends on Usman's health and age. Wrestlers typically transition to striking as they get older (Usman and Woodley are good examples) because, if you look at Olympic freestyle or greco wrestling for example, wrestlers start to fall off at 30, while MMA fighters often pick up at 30. Age, wear and tear, injuries, those rack up quickly and can make a once formidable wrestler significantly less formidable. I don't know how Usman's body is holding up, if well then he can probably win, if it is deteriorating then he will probably lose. No matter what, Usman's fate will be to go out of the top spot in the UFC the same way he came in. Another younger wrestler holding him down, and him the older wrestler on the bottom unable to do anything. Maybe it'll be Khamzat, maybe it'll be Shavkat, maybe it'll even be Colby (I'd be surprised...) but it's kinda the tale as old as time in the division. And the one way he can escape it of course is to bow out early like GSP or Khabib, while he still has good health.

 

[robbie]

Bellator is coming on strong, which is not surprising. Scott Coker turned Strikeforce into a top notch MMA company as evidenced by how many former Strikeforce fighters became UFC champions or long-time top contenders after the UFC bought out Strikeforce. The UFC is at a real crossroads IMO. There are a number of aging stars in the UFC, will the new younger stars be able to drive and grow revenues? In addition, the McGregor circus era where the UFC behaved like pro wrestling instead of a sport with a logical path to championships or title fights is not good for most fighters. McGregor gummed-up the LW division for several years and the UFC was constantly giving McGregor favorable treatment. It would be like the NFL giving the Dallas Cowboys all home games with no road games and they automatically play in the Super Bowl every year even if they have a losing record. It was nice for the few fighters who got the McGregor payday, but for all the other fighters in the LW division, McGregor was a massive hinderance and if you were a strong wrestler or grappler who wouldn't stand and bang, you would never get a whiff of a McGregor payday.

If I'm a young pro fighter and I'm watching the UFC, Bellator, PFL and other organizations, I'm not so sure I would go all-in for the UFC platform especially if the other promotions can provide comparable or better compensation. You know the UFC will play games. Dana White shat on GSP who was one of his best fighters and best revenue generators. The share of revenues that UFC fighters get as a percentage of gross revenues is super low compared to most professional sports. There is no health care plan to help fighters deal with injury, wear & tear and general health. I believe the UFC exploits their talent, so if Scott Coker can prove that Bellator is a legitimate MMA organization AND he will treat his fighters better, then I think Bellator will be able to compete with the UFC and could eventually match or exceed the UFC. It's all about finding, signing and developing talent. Coker knows what he is doing.