Who’s the best or most well rounded athlete…

[spdrew2143]

I think fighting is the ultimate test of athleticism. Who cares if you can run or swim faster or farther or put balls in nets better or lift more than someone if they can kick your ass

I'm choking you out and there's nothing you can do to stop me.

 

[Robocok]

I'm choking you out and there's nothing you can do to stop me.

Not if I run inside and lock my door first

 

[gspieler]

Chopped this into two posts to avoid raping this thread with more walls of text.

On the 4 minute mile thing...I'm not sure why you are so high on that. I totally agree the pace and cardio/endurance is super impressive, obviously. But the actual speed? That is 15 mph, that is not fast. And this is like the lowest endurance running event, the cutoff between medium distance running. Even a 2 mile, Farah has a similar pace which is insanely impressive, but again it's even slower than 15 mph.

To run 15 mph or obviously less is just not impressive athletically. That is not "fast". For visual evidence and reference:



This is 13 mph, which again is insanely fucking impressive to hold for 2 hours in a marathon was Kipchoge did. But to me, this isn't "athleticism", at this point it has become an extreme end (like powerlifting as a prime example I've contrasted it with 101 times), endurance/cardio. Not an act of superb athleticism. It's cardio. Again, an aspect and component of the entire pie, just as strength is therefore Powerlifting, which I see as kind of shit on compared to distance running comparatively, is.

What a powerlifter or distance runner does is fucking impressive. It clearly and undeniably is "athletic" on some level. But since when did people consider powerlifters superb athletes, since when was maximal strength lifting in niche formats a big part of athleticism. Why is this then being catered to extreme cardio/endurance niche sports? And yes Kenya cares because they're naturally good at it and it's a way for them to gain money/fame and leave a shithole country. I don't think the world, and obviously US, really gives a fuck about most niche olympic events, distance running included.

Cycling, distance running, powerlifting, strongman despite some push, weighlifting (which you think has better athletes and might), swimming...these are all niche sports that aren't big and barely anyone gives a fuck about if we're being honest. Obviously some do, but come on they are all clearly niche.

Yes when the Olympics roll around we'll hear about Katie Ledycki (spelling) or Phelps. No one gives a fuck about swimming for the other 3.5 to 3.9 years though. Tour De France is a big name, how many people watch and actually care? How many people cycle? I'm not trying to argue every point but ehh idk I think they are still clearly niche.

Oly weightlifters are incredible athletes. If we're going to use vert/speed as the primary indicators of athleticism, well...they have both in spades. On top of great mobility, coordination, and obviously, insane strength.

 

[vision1]

Tour De France is a big name, how many people watch and actually care? How many people cycle? I'm not trying to argue every point but ehh idk I think they are still clearly niche.

lol

 

[ChickenBrother]

Jaws is a bad motherfucker. Have you ever seen Molly Schuyler? She's a beast too but isn't under contract with Major League Eating. I think she's the one to take down Joey if she's ever able to jump ship and compete against him. The woman literally doesn't chew.



I don't ask for much in life, but I would love to see them face off at the Nathan's event.

Professional eaters like Chestnut and Schuyler push their bodies to the limit to perform a specified activity faster, longer and better than anyone else. And not just any activity. Literally everyone eats so the pool of potential competitors is huge but these guys do it better than the other 7.9 billion people on the planet. According to Schuyler's wikipedia page, in 2017 she ate 22.5 lbs of prime rib meat in 45 minutes at Ward's House of Prime. That's apex predator shit right there.

Judging by their girth, the guys at 0:27 can also put down some food. But they're doing it over a long period of time and no one wants to watch that long, slow endurance crap. The real men (and women) compete at A-level athlete events like Nathan's Hot Dog Eating Contest where their A-level phosphagen and glycolytic systems are on full display performing their chosen activity.

 

[No Skill Gap]

lol

Maybe if you write a few more "lol" responses then cycling will become popular and not a niche sport.

 

[No Skill Gap]

Oly weightlifters are incredible athletes. If we're going to use vert/speed as the primary indicators of athleticism, well...they have both in spades. On top of great mobility, coordination, and obviously, insane strength.

Yes I totally respect olympic weightllifters. I think you guys are kind of assuming a bit with how athletic they actually are considering they focus their entire lives on two movements, but yes I would definitely consider them more of a display of an athleticism than swimming or distance running. But to only look at vertical jump for athletes that specialize in basically that movement a bit higher up on the speed-strength spectrum is a bit sus.

Once you get to the top of any sport it's obviously extremely impressive and you are fucking amazing at one specific to ~niche aspect of athleticism. I just think we should and most people usually do, make a distinction between "endurance" and "athleticism" and "strength".

We clearly make this distinction for hand eye coordination and reaction time, and in the physical world not playing video games here. As in, does anyone in general or here really consider Olympic table tennis medalists and "athletes" to be a display of athleticism?

Hitting a baseball in high levels of the sport is retardedly hard to do. Stupid hard. Isn't that itself an athletic feat? But no one is willing to say Babe Ruth or Prince Fielder, Jose Altuve, Pablo Sandoval, etc - are displays of "athleticism". There is an arbitrary cutoff here, and I know this is a tangent from the weightlifting stuff.

 

[vision1]

Maybe if you write a few more "lol" responses then cycling will become popular and not a niche sport.

A lot of people cycle
And A LOT of people watch the Tour de France. I wouldn't be surprised if it's the most viewed sporting event. Maybe behind the World Cup and Summer Olympics.

 

[No Skill Gap]

A lot of people cycle
And A LOT of people watch the Tour de France. I wouldn't be surprised if it's the most viewed sporting event. Maybe behind the World Cup and Summer Olympics.

Ok maybe I'm wrong specifically about the Tour De France, and I said it was a big event I just didn't know how many people really watched. According to google the event generates between 60-150 million per year. Okay, that's alot.

The Super Bowl made 30-130 million "real" money after analyzing higher claims according to one source. So I mean, is the Tour put under the same ridicule, probably not but either way it's very big. To both our points, it's obviously more "global" in interest so that explains it both ways.

The difference, and I'm just comparing to the NFL as a benchmark, is that football made 16 billion in 2019 and 12 billion in the covid 2020 world. As I said, outside of that one giant event everyone knows, maybe a few more big tours that are lesser, what is the entire sport of cycling adding up to? Obviously nothing close.

Outside of the one big event, much like swimming when the olympics hit, I guarantee there is an utter nosedive of interest and revenue gained. I think there's a few more big tours, but what is the average salary of a cyclists? 50k? 70k? 100k for the top tier? The cream of the crop superstars make 5-6 million, how many of those are there a handful? 10? Idk. But obviously you follow the money to get to the answer of popularity and whether or not a sport is niche. I'd still say swimming is clearly niche even if many people in the world swim and it gets tons of views for a month out of every 4 years.

The sport has more money and eyes than powerlifting and Rugby, sure. I'd call both of those niche as well. And it kind of suffers from the same exact thing the NFL does and you've called that niche, which is that only a section of euro countries really care about cycling and the rest of the world doesn't give a fuck.

I can agree and admit cycling makes more money and is more popular than I thought and was giving credit for. But I still think it's a rather niche, small sport that globally no one cares about really, and in the US we definitely don't give a fuck about especially post-Armstrong.

 

[vision1]

Why do you keep bringing up revenue?
You asked how many people watch or care about the Tour de France. The answer seems to be at least 1 billion according to google.
I have not called the NFL niche. That's a word you keep using to describe every sport that's not Football/Basketball/Baseball/Hockey/Soccer. Just appreciate all sports and realize they all require different sets of athletic attributes.

 

[Volador]

Chopped this into two posts to avoid raping this thread with more walls of text.

On the 4 minute mile thing...I'm not sure why you are so high on that. I totally agree the pace and cardio/endurance is super impressive, obviously. But the actual speed? That is 15 mph, that is not fast. And this is like the lowest endurance running event, the cutoff between medium distance running. Even a 2 mile, Farah has a similar pace which is insanely impressive, but again it's even slower than 15 mph.

To run 15 mph or obviously less is just not impressive athletically. That is not "fast". For visual evidence and reference:



This is 13 mph, which again is insanely fucking impressive to hold for 2 hours in a marathon was Kipchoge did. But to me, this isn't "athleticism", at this point it has become an extreme end (like powerlifting as a prime example I've contrasted it with 101 times), endurance/cardio. Not an act of superb athleticism. It's cardio. Again, an aspect and component of the entire pie, just as strength is therefore Powerlifting, which I see as kind of shit on compared to distance running comparatively, is.

What a powerlifter or distance runner does is fucking impressive. It clearly and undeniably is "athletic" on some level. But since when did people consider powerlifters superb athletes, since when was maximal strength lifting in niche formats a big part of athleticism. Why is this then being catered to extreme cardio/endurance niche sports? And yes Kenya cares because they're naturally good at it and it's a way for them to gain money/fame and leave a shithole country. I don't think the world, and obviously US, really gives a fuck about most niche olympic events, distance running included.

Cycling, distance running, powerlifting, strongman despite some push, weighlifting (which you think has better athletes and might), swimming...these are all niche sports that aren't big and barely anyone gives a fuck about if we're being honest. Obviously some do, but come on they are all clearly niche.

Yes when the Olympics roll around we'll hear about Katie Ledycki (spelling) or Phelps. No one gives a fuck about swimming for the other 3.5 to 3.9 years though. Tour De France is a big name, how many people watch and actually care? How many people cycle? I'm not trying to argue every point but ehh idk I think they are still clearly niche.

You're using a definition of what is "athletic" that satisfies your own bias. I can't see how the 40y dash is less "niche" than running a mile. That's a personal axiom you subscribe to. Pretty sure a mile test would be equally or more important in soccer, tennis, MMA and boxing than a 40y dash, and of course, in any track event above 400mts.

I think you're in a small minority if you don't consider Phelps, Lasha Talakhadze, Mo Farah, Olympic gymnasts, or Brian Shaw insanely gifted athletically. The point about well roundedness is well taken, and I agree, but there's a difference between that and saying they are not athletic. I don't think many people will share your view on that.

The speed bit, I obviously meant it's fast for the distance. "Oh, this guy is a really slow runner, but he can outrun 99.99999% of the world's professional athletes in almost every sport in a 2 minute race" (half mile). I don't think most people would subscribe to this kind of logic.

And yes Kenya cares because they're naturally good at it and it's a way for them to gain money/fame and leave a shithole country. I don't think the world, and obviously US, really gives a fuck about most niche olympic events, distance running included.

This is false, because tons of people care about marathons and Tour de France type events, and soccer which has a pretty high aerobic requirement. Second, using "how many people care" is arbitrary, and would make soccer the pinnacle of athletics, which would make upper body strength totally irrelevant, which we already said isn't the case. Third, using the same logic, we can say no one cares globally about benching 225lbs for max reps or the 40 yard dash, only a section of the US, so it's as niche as any other event.

The difference between these events and jumping through a hoop on fire on a unicycle is that they tax the muscular/cardiovascular system to the max, and those are considered basic aspects of physical ability. Hand eye coordination or reflexes can be tested through something like shooting, which requires very little physical exertion, with the mechanical work being done by a machine. You can't test the muscular and cardiovascular system that way. I do think a well rounded athlete should have some coordination, reflexes and balance, and I think those are important things. Maybe if I knew more about table tennis I'd appreciate it more.

 

[No Skill Gap]

Why do you keep bringing up revenue?
You asked how many people watch or care about the Tour de France. The answer seems to be at least 1 billion according to google.
I have not called the NFL niche. That's a word you keep using to describe every sport that's not Football/Basketball/Baseball/Hockey/Soccer. Just appreciate all sports and realize they all require different sets of athletic attributes.

This wasn't an exercise in appreciating every sport and every little physical activity that humans can do. Obviously certain builds and genetics aka humans excel at every specified sport. I don't see why that's relevant.

This has become a conversation about athleticism turned into an appeal to make everyone feel special because they like riding their bike or running long distance and think it should count. Running very (relatively) slowly over long distances isn't in the same ballpark as Usain Bolt or Tyreek Hill. No one considers Ma Long ping pong god as an equivalent or even close athletic feat as Dmitry Klokov getting silver or Michael Jordan or Ronaldo.

If we want to say "Athleticism" is subjective and agree to disagree like we should have done awhile ago, then fine. But I don't think it's subjective. You clearly want me to acquiesce and pretend like there's some equivalence or we should just call everyone special and amazing. I've already said physical feats are impressive, but that doesn't mean they are significant to what makes the best athlete. They are extremes. I stand by that.

It's as simple as this, how well is a cyclist going to carry over to other sports? A long distance runner? Not fucking well. Just purely athletically. Even ignore skills.

You can take a Michael Jordan, LeBron James, Vince Carter, Russell Westbrook - and he will have the raw athleticism to basically play any sport to a high level if he had the skill.

Can you say the same about Lance Armstrong, Kipchouge, or Mo Farah? You really can't. Richard Hawthorne, John Haack, Eddie Hall? Why is the carry over and the overall just supposed to be ignored here in favor of some people being extremely good at an extremely specified physical activity, an athletic feat even call it?

 

[No Skill Gap]

You're using a definition of what is "athletic" in a way that satisfies your own bias. I can't see how the 40y dash is less "niche" than running a mile. That's a personal axiom you subscribe to. Pretty sure a mile test would be equally or more important in soccer, tennis, MMA and boxing than a 40y dash, and of course, in any track event above 400mts.

I think you're in a small minority if you don't consider Phelps, Lasha Talakhadze, Mo Farah, Olympic gymnasts, or Brian Shaw insanely gifted athletically. The point about well roundedness is well taken, and I agree, but there's a difference between that and saying they are not athletic. I don't think many people will share your view on that.

The speed bit, I obviously meant it's fast for the distance. "Oh, this guy is a really slow runner, but he can outrun 99.99999% of the world's professional athletes in almost every sport in a 2 minute race" (half mile). I don't think most people would subscribe to this kind of logic.



This is false, because tons of people care about marathons and Tour de France type events, and soccer which has a pretty high aerobic requirement. Second, using "how many people care" is arbitrary, and would make soccer the pinnacle of athletics, which would make upper body strength totally irrelevant, which we already said isn't the case. Third, using the same logic, we can say no one cares globally about benching 225lbs for max reps or the 40 yard dash, only a section of the US, so it's as niche as any other event.

The difference between these events and jumping through a hoop on fire on a unicycle is that they tax the muscular/cardiovascular system to the max, and those are considered basic aspects of physical ability. Hand eye coordination or reflexes can be tested through something like shooting, which requires very little physical exertion, with the mechanical work being done by a machine. Holding your breath for time isn't required to perform mechanical work with your body. However, you can't test the muscular and cardiovascular system that way. I do think a well rounded athlete should have some coordination, reflexes and balance, and I think those are important things. Maybe if I knew more about table tennis I'd appreciate it more.

Well fair enough, maybe more people watch the Tour De France than I thought in reply to you and Vision. But I don't think people "care" about marathon running and cycling to the level you both are saying. Maybe I'm wrong.

For the record, I don't think the bench press is some amazing test of athleticism and I've said the exact opposite in this thread. It's not a good test. There are better tests, especially when the test is doing max reps with 70-80% BW or 185 or 225.

I think you're shitting on athletic testing far too much at the end there though. Jumping through a hoop that's on fire with a unicycle...yeah I get it's hyperbole but just "Taxing" the muscular or cardiovascular system isn't "Good" athletic testing. Just like running a 5k and doing 3 mins of burpees in a row isn't. That's cardio.

Sorry but we're straying way too far from what is athleticism here. What if Usain Bolt just didn't workout for a year and played world of warcraft and sat on the couch. He has the innate, genetic level of athleticism to probably still fucking toast 98-99.8% of humans in the world in a race, probably can jump higher and move better than 95-99% too. But maybe his mile time or definitely 5k will just suck balls, maybe his 3 min burpee count is way worse, maybe his bench press and deadlift are way down from just not lifting.

Athleticism is something that IS NOT as trainable as strength or cardio is. So yeah I think we're just straying wayyyy too far away in favor of giving credit to every single sport and movement and energy system.

 

[Deleted member 512089]

You're using a definition of what is "athletic" in a way that satisfies your own bias. I can't see how the 40y dash is less "niche" than running a mile. That's a personal axiom you subscribe to. Pretty sure a mile test would be equally or more important in soccer, tennis, MMA and boxing than a 40y dash, and of course, in any track event above 400mts.

I think you're in a small minority if you don't consider Phelps, Lasha Talakhadze, Mo Farah, Olympic gymnasts, or Brian Shaw insanely gifted athletically. The point about well roundedness is well taken, and I agree, but there's a difference between that and saying they are not athletic. I don't think many people will share your view on that.

The speed bit, I obviously meant it's fast for the distance. "Oh, this guy is a really slow runner, but he can outrun 99.99999% of the world's professional athletes in almost every sport in a 2 minute race" (half mile). I don't think most people would subscribe to this kind of logic.



This is false, because tons of people care about marathons and Tour de France type events, and soccer which has a pretty high aerobic requirement. Second, using "how many people care" is arbitrary, and would make soccer the pinnacle of athletics, which would make upper body strength totally irrelevant, which we already said isn't the case. Third, using the same logic, we can say no one cares globally about benching 225lbs for max reps or the 40 yard dash, only a section of the US, so it's as niche as any other event.

The difference between these events and jumping through a hoop on fire on a unicycle is that they tax the muscular/cardiovascular system to the max, and those are considered basic aspects of physical ability. Hand eye coordination or reflexes can be tested through something like shooting, which requires very little physical exertion, with the mechanical work being done by a machine. Holding your breath for time isn't required to perform mechanical work with your body. However, you can't test the muscular and cardiovascular system that way. I do think a well rounded athlete should have some coordination, reflexes and balance, and I think those are important things. Maybe if I knew more about table tennis I'd appreciate it more.

Get ready for a wall of text about how the NFL generates more revenue and how running any time over 1 minute isn't atheticism

 

[ChickenBrother]

It's as simple as this, how well is a cyclist going to carry over to other sports? A long distance runner? Not fucking well. Just purely athletically. Even ignore skills.

You can take a Michael Jordan, LeBron James, Vince Carter, Russell Westbrook - and he will have the raw athleticism to basically play any sport to a high level if he had the skill.

Can you say the same about Lance Armstrong, Kipchouge, or Mo Farah? You really can't. Richard Hawthorne, John Haack, Eddie Hall? Why is the carry over and the overall just supposed to be ignored here in favor of some people being extremely good at an extremely specified physical activity, an athletic feat even call it?

Athleticism is something that IS NOT as trainable as strength or cardio is. So yeah I think we're just straying wayyyy too far away in favor of giving credit to every single sport and movement and energy system.

I've been refusing to take this thread seriously but I agree with this. The test of a great athlete is ability to play an unfamiliar sport better than other first time players. Strength, cardio, explosion factor into that but the most critical is being coordinated, moving efficiently, anticipating other players' actions and reacting quickly and effectively. Some call it kinesthetic awareness.

Without having played before, a great athlete can pick up a baseball bat and hit a fastball, play a turn of kabaddi and tag out the opposing team, kick a soccer ball into a goal while evading defenders, put on boxing gloves and give as good as he gets. With practice, he acquires skills faster and better than others. Growing up, we all knew some kid like that - he was a great athlete.

There are great athletes in any competitive sport with a deep talent pool so it's pointless debating which one has the most. But IMO there's a distinction between "fitness" sports like track or powerlifting and "contact" sports like football or soccer. In the former, someone else isn't trying to prevent you from doing it. They're about who is the best at working out. Most well-rounded of those probably goes to decathlon or crossfit.

But it's possible to be elite at running or lifting weights with the situational awareness of a potato. Not so for team contact or combat sports and IMO these have a higher bar of "athleticism" in order to excel.

 

[Naoya#1]

Soccer players and NBA guys.

 

[Kefir]

Me.

 

[gspieler]

400m
5k
Shuttle run
Vertical
Shot put
Max push-ups/pullups
DL 1RM

 

[Fahcough]

Jump a hurdle
catch/ throw / kick a football
kick soccer ball with both feet
hit baseball from both sides
make a lay up/ free throw / 3 pointer
do 50 push ups / 20 ring pull ups

 

[monkeyrhythm]

Jump a hurdle
catch/ throw / kick a football
kick soccer ball with both feet
hit baseball from both sides
make a lay up/ free throw / 3 pointer
do 50 push ups / 20 ring pull ups

I've been reading this thread and thinking "shit, evidently I'm not athletic in the slightest" and then you post this. I genuinely think I could do all of these (on a good day), aside from the 20 ring pullups...