With all due respect to the great Mike Tyson (also: About Awesome Kicks)

[RightHooksRus86]

Good post...Last night proved the sport is evolving and the skillsets just keep getting better and better.

 

[MMA Goodfella]

1st, I think that was totally bullshit that dana would change his mind on ko of the night because a guy he's sitting with disagrees, even if that guy is Mike Tyson.

Besides, maybe it's because Tyson comes from boxing that he thought punches were better

BUT SPINNING WHEEL KICK KNOCKOUT!

Come on! (and to Mark Hunt of all people)

but speaking of SPINNING WHEEL KICK KNOCKOUT!, I thin it's really incredible that not that long ago, the vast majority of kicks in MMA were all muay thai based and they were very simple muay thai at that.

As Rogan said, people pretty much used to just do roundhouse kicks. (and maybe the occasional push kick)

and there was a clear line of thinking about this: Real fighting = Simple, practical, straight forward. While MOVIES = The flashy stuff. So save them for that.

Basically people would say "If one guy tries to throw some fancy spinning kick, the other guy can just jab him."

But thanks to guys like Cung Le, Machida, Anderson, Pettis, any quite a few others, people are really starting to see that the "flashy stuff" that they thought was only for movies can really work well if you have the skill and SPEED to pull it off (back in the day the "keep it simple" idea made sense because everyone was slow and not nearly as technical)

So now just in the past month we've seen JDS and Vitor Belfort pull off extremely fancy kicks, and there's still that other one from last year the UFC loves to show.

I'm really loving this. I hope people continue to experiment and things get wilder and wilder.

Agree its no charity, but TJ could win on merit for I could argue knocking out a fresh Gray Maynard w/ such a beautiful combo was more impressive than surprising a 39 year old gassed HW. (Devils advocate ) ... both were awesome.

re striking/movies:

I think that the UFC will become kind of like the NBA as far as the dunk contest goes. That is to say, in 1976 when the NBA dunk contest started it was basically just slam dunks that were straight forward with little imagination or creativity; there was maybe a 360 degree slam or a fancy dunk that you wouldn't bat at eye at even in a live game today - that was it. Basically, the crowd was just stunned that people could get high enough to dunk let alone do moves high in the air and still finish the dunk. Then, as the years evolved players turned the dunk into an art form by adding a level of complexity to it that couldn't be achieved by your average athlete or tall man.

Just as with the UFC and striking today, as the years went on in the NBA the dunk evolved and people would see new things every year and each year they would ask how "X" ever be topped? e.g. When Michael Jordan dunked from the free throw line in '85 nobody thought that could ever happen nor be duplicated, but now that dunk is status quo and dunking from the free throw line today will barely score a 45 out of 50. Indeed, the same thing goes with dunking between the legs; before J.R. Rider came along in '94 nobody ever believed an NBA player could jump into the air and pass the ball between his legs from one hand to the other and into the basket - that was just crazy talk!! Now like the the free throw line dunk, it is status quo.

Summarily, just like the NBA dunk, the legs kicks and punches in MMA will continue to evolve to the point of absurdity and then to status quo again. MMA is still in its infancy and we're witnessing the evolution.

Spoiler

 

[Symphony]

...

 

[Callisto]

I could argue that knocking out a fresh Gray Maynard is more impressive that the flashy kick ko over a tired out Mark Hunt in the 3rd round. Gray had only be TKO'd once before in his career (like Hunt), was higher ranked and Grant was a big underdog as well.

At least that is a reasonable argument, unlike many I am reading on Sherdog.
Your argument is based on merit, not because Grant is a poorer man and needs the money more.

I think a strong argument could be made for either getting the bonus.

What bothered me is that White was going to give it to JDS, but let Tyson decide instead. I don't think Tyson is qualified to ovveride DW. DW understands the complete sport of MMA more than Tyson, who was never in the business of MMA in any way, shape, or form. I think Tyson is biased towards punches. If White had merely decided to give it to Grant in the first place, I would't see an issue.

 

[KillingJoke]

At least that is a reasonable argument, unlike many I am reading on Sherdog.
Your argument is based on merit, not because Grant is a poorer man and needs the money more.

I think a strong argument could be made for either getting the bonus.

What bothered me is that White was going to give it to JDS, but let Tyson decide instead. I don't think Tyson is qualified to ovveride DW. DW understands the complete sport of MMA more than Tyson, who was never in the business of MMA in any way, shape, or form. I think Tyson is biased towards punches. If White had merely decided to give it to Grant in the first place, I would't see an issue.

I think we're all just speculating at this point. Mike Tyson, from what I've read, has been a MMA fan for awhile now. Who knows what he took into consideration on his thought that T.J. Grant deserved the KO of the night. Of course, this bit of information came from Dana White and he is known to exaggerate a bit. Tyson could of just given his opinion on the award, when asked, and Dana could of just decided to go with it.

 

[Doodles]

It isn't a charity.

It isn't supposed to be an award to people who need the money more.

It is supposed to be an award for merit.

Why is this so hard for people to understand?

This.

If a spinning kick KO on Mark Hunt doesn't win it then it should be called something else. "Charity handout of the night".

 

[Juzie]

It isn't a charity.

It isn't supposed to be an award to people who need the money more.

It is supposed to be an award for merit.

Why is this so hard for people to understand?

This. Give TJ a higher paying contract if you think he needs to be paid more... don't reward him with something he didn't earn. JDS deserved KOTN without any doubt (unless you're Tyson...)

 

[Juzie]

I could argue that knocking out a fresh Gray Maynard is more impressive that the flashy kick ko over a tired out Mark Hunt in the 3rd round. Gray had only be TKO'd once before in his career (like Hunt), was higher ranked and Grant was a big underdog as well.

I do agree with this actually, but the deciding factor to me is that JDS knockout is on GIFs already and will be used from time to time for years to come... people are gonna forget the TJ KO by next week.

 

[tkotom]

1st, I think that was totally bullshit that dana would change his mind on ko of the night because a guy he's sitting with disagrees, even if that guy is Mike Tyson.

Besides, maybe it's because Tyson comes from boxing that he thought punches were better

BUT SPINNING WHEEL KICK KNOCKOUT!

Come on! (and to Mark Hunt of all people)

but speaking of SPINNING WHEEL KICK KNOCKOUT!, I thin it's really incredible that not that long ago, the vast majority of kicks in MMA were all muay thai based and they were very simple muay thai at that.

As Rogan said, people pretty much used to just do roundhouse kicks. (and maybe the occasional push kick)

and there was a clear line of thinking about this: Real fighting = Simple, practical, straight forward. While MOVIES = The flashy stuff. So save them for that.

Basically people would say "If one guy tries to throw some fancy spinning kick, the other guy can just jab him."

But thanks to guys like Cung Le, Machida, Anderson, Pettis, any quite a few others, people are really starting to see that the "flashy stuff" that they thought was only for movies can really work well if you have the skill and SPEED to pull it off (back in the day the "keep it simple" idea made sense because everyone was slow and not nearly as technical)

So now just in the past month we've seen JDS and Vitor Belfort pull off extremely fancy kicks, and there's still that other one from last year the UFC loves to show.

I'm really loving this. I hope people continue to experiment and things get wilder and wilder.

who cares man.

JDS got a bonus and he will forever have the video of him knocking hunt out.

what's the problem.

 

[BBCorvette18Pun]

JDS didn't get the KO with the kick. it was the follow up punch that put hunts lights out

 

[BROKENSPROKET]

The only criteria that matters on who get any OTN bonuses is the opinions of the company owners.

There was no fan poll to decide this so, I would be inclined to say STFU, but you all have a right to an opinion, even if it doesn't matter.

TJ Grant can now afford better camps on his quest for the title. I like that.

 

[tightrope]

JDS didn't get the KO with the kick. it was the follow up punch that put hunts lights out

This. Hunt was just too tired to get back up and the punch was the actual KO.

I thought Grant deserved it. The way he just kept going like a terminator when Gray was hurt until he got the finish was great to see.

 

[BROKENSPROKET]

This. Give TJ a higher paying contract if you think he needs to be paid more... don't reward him with something he didn't earn. JDS deserved KOTN without any doubt (unless you're Tyson...)

Look at that. A key board warrior thinks his opinion has more weight than a HW Champion.

A fresh Marnard was TKO'd by an underdog

The favorite knocking out a very tired Hunt.

Grant's was more impressive. JDS's was aesthetically highlight material.

 

[aRtFuL]

But thanks to guys like Cung Le, Machida, Anderson, Pettis, any quite a few others, people are really starting to see that the "flashy stuff" that they thought was only for movies can really work well if you have the skill and SPEED to pull it off (back in the day the "keep it simple" idea made sense because everyone was slow and not nearly as technical)

Yeah all "flashy stuff" was invented for a reason - when it was invented it wasn't meant to be flashy. It was supposed to be counters to other moves.

It is just that people who are not in the high level of striking fails to understand it's uses. Sure it is not useful in most situations but there will be situation that calls for it.

 

[Toxxus]

I concur that the kick itself would not have taken out a Hunt that had a gas tank left and wasn't battered so badly.

It only dropped him because he was out of breath and had been mashed by numerous hard punches. The follow-up is definitely what put him to sleep.

As far as MMA kicking improvements go I think it is mostly due to full-time fighters. For a long while all fighters were part timers because you couldn't make full-time money with MMA. As very serious pro camps started up fighters could train full time and with the very best in the business.

Once your cardio, athleticism and skills are at a high level the kicks aren't necessarily a liability. Are you good off your back or scrambling back to your feet? Then the occasional spinning kick might just catch your opponent off-guard and get you a win.

The real fear of fancy kicks is getting taken down. If you doubt your wrestling then a fancy kick is terrifying and risky.

 

[JuniorSonGoku]

It was a joke. Dana wanted to give the KOTN to JDS, but JDS and Hunt already got a bonus. You are crazy if you really think Dana would ever let Tyson make a serious decision for him.

 

[Bradshaw]

I thought tj got the better ko juniors was cool but tj totally deserved it.

 

[DVN**]

Agree its no charity, but TJ could win on merit for I could argue knocking out a fresh Gray Maynard w/ such a beautiful combo was more impressive than surprising a 39 year old gassed HW. (Devils advocate ) ... both were awesome.

re striking/movies:

I think that the UFC will become kind of like the NBA as far as the dunk contest goes. That is to say, in 1976 when the NBA dunk contest started it was basically just slam dunks that were straight forward with little imagination or creativity; there was maybe a 360 degree slam or a fancy dunk that you wouldn't bat at eye at even in a live game today - that was it. Basically, the crowd was just stunned that people could get high enough to dunk let alone do moves high in the air and still finish the dunk. Then, as the years evolved players turned the dunk into an art form by adding a level of complexity to it that couldn't be achieved by your average athlete or tall man.

Just as with the UFC and striking today, as the years went on in the NBA the dunk evolved and people would see new things every year and each year they would ask how "X" ever be topped? e.g. When Michael Jordan dunked from the free throw line in '85 nobody thought that could ever happen nor be duplicated, but now that dunk is status quo and dunking from the free throw line today will barely score a 45 out of 50. Indeed, the same thing goes with dunking between the legs; before J.R. Rider came along in '94 nobody ever believed an NBA player could jump into the air and pass the ball between his legs from one hand to the other and into the basket - that was just crazy talk!! Now like the the free throw line dunk, it is status quo.

Summarily, just like the NBA dunk, the legs kicks and punches in MMA will continue to evolve to the point of absurdity and then to status quo again. MMA is still in its infancy and we're witnessing the evolution.

Spoiler

I agree, but i still have yet to see a 360 windmill as beautiful as vince carter in the 2000 dunk contest.

 

[Bradshaw]

This. Hunt was just too tired to get back up and the punch was the actual KO.

I thought Grant deserved it. The way he just kept going like a terminator when Gray was hurt until he got the finish was great to see.

I dont think he stayed down from that kick because he was to tired. He was rocked again and the punch finished him off.

 

[DVN**]

Yeah all "flashy stuff" was invented for a reason - when it was invented it wasn't meant to be flashy. It was supposed to be counters to other moves.

It is just that people who are not in the high level of striking fails to understand it's uses. Sure it is not useful in most situations but there will be situation that calls for it.

Yeah, blame the movies for making people think that the fancy moves are all that goes on in a real fight.

Those moves were created to counter other movies. In tkd i remember the spinning wheel kick was a counter to someone who was coming from the outside to throw a rear leg roundhouse. I caught my friend with it sparring one day and we still talk about it to this day.