Women's division ruining the UFC..

[HerpDerp]

I get your race analogy but it doesn't apply in this instance. The parallel just isn't there.

For example: the WNBA has been around for 22 years and is still as awful as the day it was created.....and girls' basketball is as popular as sports get. Nearly every college and highschool in the US features girls' basketball so the pool of players to pick from is huge. People don't care to watch women's sports in general, including women. They won't even support their own basketball league, hence why they have yet to turn a profit and completely rely on subsidies from the NBA.

I'm all for being inclusive but if you've got a sport where both men and women compete, the men's league will always be more exciting due to the nature of our physiology. Strength, speed, coordination, depth perception, and just plane old hormone profiles will create deeper and more compelling levels of competition between men. The weird thing about female sports(especially individual sports) is that the most masculine woman typically wins.

New generations of young people getting into the sport will help increase the talent pool due to sheer numbers, but we aren't able to fast track hundreds of thousands of years of evolution and sexual dimorphism in order to equal things up. Everyone should have a space to compete but it's up to the consumer to decide what they want to see. WME is pushing something that isn't being received all that well. The can continue to push but that doesn't mean people will be receptive, just like the WNBA.

Very well written and I couldn't agree more.

The fact that we have already seen multiple high level amateur wrestlers transition into WMMA, and the fact that none of them have looked even close to impressive with all that competitive experience under their belts speaks for itself. We've seen men with amateur wrestling backgrounds do the same transition and find immediate success in high level MMA against competition with vastly more MMA experience than them, in fact so much so that wrestling is generally thought of as the best base for MMA.

If wrestling is truly the best base for MMA, then shouldn't it hold true for female athletes aswell? If so, then why aren't the female fighters with amateur wrestling backgrounds blowing their non-wrestling counterparts out of the water? According to many, women in MMA cannot be expected to perform at the level of men because "they're just getting started in the sport" and "the talent pool hasn't had the chance to develop yet", though these chicks with amateur wrestling backgrounds don't follow that pattern at all.

Most of the time I'm absolutely shocked to learn that a female fighter hails from a wrestling background, and that's because I literally see no traces of that during their fights. For example, Ashlee Evans-Smith who just fought last weekend is a FOUR TIME ALL-AMERICAN, yet looks just as stiff, uncoordinated and unimpressive as a female that started off her MMA career as a hobby in adulthood would/does.

 

[Better Every Day]

You can think they voted for Trump, I can think they voted against a woman. We'll never know for sure.

No doubt sexism played some role, but Hillary was a genuinely awful candidate from many perspectives that have nothing to do with gender. I say this not as a right-winger (I've never voted Republican, nor Libertarian). For the upcoming primary I've donated to the campaigns of Bernie Sanders and Tulsi Gabbard. I'd be happy to have Tulsi Gabbard as the first female President, but Hillary Clinton was--in my opinion--a very shitty alternative to Trump (not saying he wasn't himself a shitty candidate), one who alienated the left-wing at every opportunity and toally embodied all that is wrong with "big money interests" politicians.

 

[wufabufa]

Very well written and I couldn't agree more.

The fact that we have already seen multiple high level amateur wrestlers transition into WMMA, and the fact that none of them have looked even close to impressive with all that competitive experience under their belts speaks for itself. We've seen men with amateur wrestling backgrounds do the same transition and find immediate success in high level MMA against competition with vastly more MMA experience than them, in fact so much so that wrestling is generally thought of as the best base for MMA.

If wrestling is truly the best base for MMA, then shouldn't it hold true for female athletes aswell? If so, then why aren't the female fighters with amateur wrestling backgrounds blowing their non-wrestling counterparts out of the water? According to many, women in MMA cannot be expected to perform at the level of men because "they're just getting started in the sport" and "the talent pool hasn't had the chance to develop yet", though these chicks with amateur wrestling backgrounds don't follow that pattern at all.

Most of the time I'm absolutely shocked to learn that a female fighter hails from a wrestling background, and that's because I literally see no traces of that during their fights. For example, Ashlee Evans-Smith who just fought last weekend is a FOUR TIME ALL-AMERICAN, yet looks just as stiff, uncoordinated and unimpressive as a female that started off her MMA career as a hobby in adulthood would/does.

Are you trying to tell me this Olympic level wrestler isn't an elite MMA fighter?!

HOW DARE YOU

 

[Jorge Luis Borges]

I get your race analogy but it doesn't apply in this instance. The parallel just isn't there.

For example: the WNBA has been around for 22 years and is still as awful as the day it was created.....and girls' basketball is as popular as sports get. Nearly every college and highschool in the US features girls' basketball so the pool of players to pick from is huge. People don't care to watch women's sports in general, including women. They won't even support their own basketball league, hence why they have yet to turn a profit and completely rely on subsidies from the NBA.

I'm all for being inclusive but if you've got a sport where both men and women compete, the men's league will always be more exciting due to the nature of our physiology. Strength, speed, coordination, depth perception, and just plane old hormone profiles will create deeper and more compelling levels of competition between men. The weird thing about female sports(especially individual sports) is that the most masculine woman typically wins.

New generations of young people getting into the sport will help increase the talent pool due to sheer numbers, but we aren't able to fast track hundreds of thousands of years of evolution and sexual dimorphism in order to equal things up. Everyone should have a space to compete but it's up to the consumer to decide what they want to see. WME is pushing something that isn't being received all that well. The can continue to push but that doesn't mean people will be receptive, just like the WNBA.

I generally agree with this. There are some sports I like watching women compete in more than others. Women's tennis seems quite popular and women's golf too. If WMMA were on its own cards, I think I'd watch sometimes. There are several women in the UFC who are fantastic fighters, but they are outliers. Putting Courtney Casey, no offense to her, in a fight sandwiched between male fights just makes her look very bad by comparison. On an all WMMA card, you can more readily calibrate your expectations.

I think you hit on something when it comes to masculine female athletes. I think it is often a pretty big fan turn off, but not always. I think that hurts the WNBA more than it does tennis, Serena Williams notwithstanding.

 

[BeardotheWeirdo]

1. Lol at slippery slope. We're talking about consumer preference, not morals.
2. I thought the WEC was awesome. After Zuffa bought it and incorporated most of the heavier fighters into the UFC, ti functioned to a large extent as a separate portion that featured lighter weight class fighters. It was great. I think the lighter male weights might flourish in such a set up.
3. One strong reason WMMA fans don't want to see a separate promotion or separate cards for women is that they fear WMMA simply won't be able to stand on its own. It needs to be propped up by the on average much more popular male fighters (there are a few exceptions to this, or maybe just one, Ronda). To the extent this is true, it deeply undercuts the argument that no one is forcing anyone to watch WMMA, because inserting WMMA fights into otherwise all male cards isn't physical coercion, the entire intent is to get people to watch it when they otherwise would prefer to avoid WMMA.

Slippery slopes can apply to 'giving in to customer preferences' or to morals. Anything that goes downhill really. You might not consider these changes as downhill, but if they cut out the manlets and HW's you'd change your tune.

WEC was awesome, but it couldn't stand on it's own two legs either, hence the reason it was merged. The smaller weight fighters (besides Conor) need propping up also.

Your argument applies to "manlets" and sloppy HW's too.

 

[HerpDerp]

Are you trying to tell me this Olympic level wrestler isn't an elite MMA fighter?!

HOW DARE YOU

 

[Jorge Luis Borges]

Slippery slopes can apply to 'giving in to customer preferences' or to morals. Anything that goes downhill really.

WEC was awesome, but it couldn't stand on it's own two legs either, hence the reason it was merged. The smaller weight fighters (besides Conor) need propping up also.

Your argument applies to "manlets" and sloppy HW's too.

It's not a slippery slope, because it isn't downhill.

What is your source on why the WEC was merged? I think you are wrong about that. I think they thought it was doing well enough that they thought that merging it would strengthen the UFC brand. I think it did, though adding flyweight seems like it was one division too far.

Also, your point about HWs is off base. There will always be an outsized demand for HW fights.

 

[Better Every Day]

The fact that we have already seen multiple high level amateur wrestlers transition into WMMA, and the fact that none of them have looked even close to impressive with all that competitive experience under their belts speaks for itself.

Not true.

Many are so impressed with undefeated MMA fighter, and wrestler (only cancer kept her out of the Olympics), Tatiana Suarez, that they fully expect her to steamroller-crush anyone between her and the strawweight belt, which isn't very many fighters anymore as she's currently ranked #3 in the division.

 

[Smalltownboy]

Ridiculous. Nunes vs. Cyborg was a possible FOTY.

Possibly KO of the year, defo not fight of the year as it lasted less than a minute

 

[wufabufa]

I generally agree with this. There are some sports I like watching women compete in more than others. Women's tennis seems quite popular and women's golf too. If WMMA were on its own cards, I think I'd watch sometimes. There are several women in the UFC who are fantastic fighters, but they are outliers. Putting Courtney Casey, no offense to her, in a fight sandwiched between male fights just makes her look very bad by comparison. On an all WMMA card, you can more readily calibrate your expectations.

I think you hit on something when it comes to masculine female athletes. I think it is often a pretty big fan turn off, but not always. I think that hurts the WNBA more than it does tennis, Serena Williams notwithstanding.

Agreed, some women's sports are compelling. During the olympics I usually enjoy women's gymnastics simply because they compete in different events than the men. The benchmark is set by women in those events since there's no male equivalent to compare it to. Women's downhill skiing and speed skating during the winter olympics is something I find interesting too. Women's snowboarding? Not so much. When you've got Shaun White blasting 20ft airs out of the halfpipe throwing corked out 1080s, the women's event just doesn't cut it when they can't make it 6ft out and constantly miss grabbing their board.

I guess it really just depends on the sport. Sometimes that action can translate to females, other times it falls short no matter how many of them are participating or how long the sport has been around.

 

[NILLI]

How long do you think it takes to snap a photo, Einstein?

Plus, anybody who knows about athletic training, also knows about the need for recovery time... during which time taking a photo doesn't impede rest and recovery.

Plus, considering the relatively low pay, and high expenses, of being an MMA athlete, at less than the highest rankings, the sponsorship money that comes with social media popularity is no doubt a very helpful supplement to their financial well-being.

Lol. Sure they take one picture and that is it Try a thousand pictures and finally they get the one they like. That is after a lot of planning on how the picture should be put out what to write. Then they follow it up hours on end to see how many likes they get. Then the hope to get on every tv show or interview they possibly can. Look at PVZ prime example post crap every day. Shows off her new silicons or how she got engaged to some guy she has know for 15 minutes.

I can bet my house she is staring at her phone/tablet/laptop for like 90% of the time she is awake. Then shows up fight night and looks slow and pathetic. She has not improved one bit after the first year she started MMA but lucky for her she can get far since there are lots of women "fighters" like her out there.

Oh and just needed to say since you clearly missed the point in my post. By posting pictures I said that their main priority lays elsewhere than in fighting. They just grave for attention and celebrity status and that can be easily achieved if you are semi pretty and have a couple of decent fights in UFC and we all know how laughable easy it is to get some wins in WMMA.

 

[HerpDerp]

Not true.

Many are so impressed with undefeated MMA fighter, and wrestler (only cancer kept her out of the Olympics), Tatiana Suarez, that they fully expect her to steamroller-crush anyone between her and the strawweight belt, which isn't very many fighters anymore as she's currently ranked #3 in the division.

I will give you Suarez, she legitimately is an impressive athlete and has made her opponents look like they don't belong in there with her, atleast in the 2 fights of her that I've seen (against Cooper and that Mexican chick).

 

[BeardotheWeirdo]

It's not a slippery slope, because it isn't downhill.

What is your source on why the WEC was merged? I think you are wrong about that. I think they thought it was doing well enough that they thought that merging it would strengthen the UFC brand. I think it did, though adding flyweight seems like it was one division too far.

Also, your point about HWs is off base. There will always be an outsized demand for HW fights.

Segregation is downhill. Variety is good. IMO.

I love HW's, but some complain about them being sloppy, often when debating WMMA vs MMA. If UFC gave in to fans in this area, that's where it would lead.

UFC brand didn't need strengthened. What did Dana earnestly say when Randy tried to leave UFC for Affliction? "The UFC brand is bigger than any fighter" in other words, "we don't need anyone, the UFC name is all we need" So why merge WEC and UFC, the ratings weren't there. It was on the versus network, versus. What happened to them, are they even around anymore? Only the hardcores cared. Strikeforce was doing much better than WEC and they folded that too, same with Pride.

Now if the WEC was rebranded as UFC LW, then it likely would've done much better, but the PPV numbers still tell us the LW's and smaller fighters (aside from Conor) don't sell that well.

 

[Jedijiujitsu]

If an organization gives a group, a chance, then they will only inspire others from their group. You may not necessarily believe that the women who are fighting, fight with as much skill as men, but by the women having an outlet to be seen, there is a new generation of girls watching that will begin a mixed martial arts career from their youth into adulthood.

And these seven-year-old girls that are taking karate, watching UFC with their dads these days, may want to continue the MMA route and in 13 years, have a decade and a half or so of designated Karate/MMA training and be able to put on quite a skilled show.

Now I personally have been impressed with a number of female combatants in the sport as I have been with various male athletes. Neither sex has its lineup of flawless fighters, but both certainly have their own talented representatives...in my opinion.

Let’s say that UFC only allowed Caucasian males to fight. Throughout 20 years, all you saw were white dudes fighting each other. Then all of a sudden, you saw black guys, Hispanics, and Asians fighting. If you were not impressed right away and cut their opportunity short, then the aforementioned would never inspire youth from their respective races to learn the sport of MMA from a young age and carry that into adulthood, to then be fine representatives in a decade/beyond.

Instead, you allow males of all races to fight and hopefully each one has its own set of high-quality martial artists that inspire others to join the fight game. I would recommend take this approach when it comes to your perception of female fighters going forward. It’s a bigger picture kind of thing.

To each their own though. Just my opinion on the matter.

I like that opinion but a big hole in that opinion is the genetic difference between a male and a female. When it comes to FIGHTING. Those genetics make a massive difference, especially in entertainment.

 

[Rum]

If it makes $$$ it makes sense

Those who see the numbers clearly believe WMMA pays

 

[Just Creed]

I'm not a fan of wmma either and i've found it to be less than impressive. There's been the odd fight i've enjoyed but I do tend to just skip the wmma bouts.
However there is a growing wmma fanbase and if they're enjoying then it'll continue to be on ufc cards.

 

[BeardotheWeirdo]

I like that opinion but a big hole in that opinion is the genetic difference between a male and a female. When it comes to FIGHTING. Those genetics make a massive difference, especially in entertainment.

A green fighter like Ngannou would never come in and do so well at FW. The skill level at FW is much higher than at HW, due to their speed and cardio advantages, and lack of power compared to HW's means longer careers and less brain damage, and less chance of a fluke KO or small mistake leading to a KO. Those genetics and factors make a massive difference too, especially in entertainment, albeit not as massive as your example.

That's why those that prefer technical fighting like BW's and those that love KO's prefer HW.

The real issue is experience, not genetics. And WMMA fighters will gain experience and improve quicker on a larger platform like UFC, than they would anywhere else. so... patience is the key.

They should probably keep them off the main cards for now though, except for title fights. ​

 

[L.T.]

The problem right now isn't WMMA, just get used to it it's not changing, Ronda was the biggest star the sport had seen so deal with it. The problem is female fighters being motivated to enhance themselves to get fights. Talk about wrong direction. It will devolve from the progress theyve made if they keep this shit up. JJ u broke my heart.

 

[null]

Gee, here's a novel thread that has never been done before just full of intelligent well thought out opinions...

 

[Bowel-forged Stool]

They don’t even make them fight naked. Wtf are they doing.