Economy 22 Studies Agree Medicare for All Would Save Money

[Swoliosis]

I remember hearing the same thing about the ACA/Obamacare, and yet insurance premiums skyrocketed.

Blame your greedy health insurance companies for that.

 

[superpunch]

It will never save money and our treatment options and number of providers would dwindle and the care would be shit compared to #1 in the world, which is exactly what we have now. And is why when wealthy people from anywhere on the planet have an issue, they pack a suitcase and cash and show up at The Cleveland Clinic, John Hopkins, The Mayo Clinic, etc.
Europe, Japan, China, The Middle East, Africa, South America, Canada and Mexico among others. They all come here. That's odd.
Isn't anybody here from these countries with "free" healthcare going to chime in and tell us how great it is?
How short wait times are?
How you have to pay cash to get yourself actually taken care of in a timely fashion?
Like, the truth?
I mean, I know our clueless Bernie Bros here have no idea, but I know only one person first hand who married a Brit and lives there (friend of my wife's) and it is an absolute horror show. The NHS, at least. Outrageous. So thankful I don't have that "free" care. And a sweet 20% VAT tax on every good or service to pay for my "free" HC. And a long wait.

I'm living overseas right now in a country with universal healthcare coverage. Wait times are short, coverage is cheap, everything's great. It's a public OPTION though. You can opt out of the public plan and get private coverage instead. If the government policy starts deteriorating, you can simply not use it. It forces the government policy to be on the up and up and everything's great. I would definitely support a public option like that in America.

I'm way too scared of just forcing medicare onto everyone though. I can imagine too many ways that medicare might get fucked up to trust putting all my eggs in one basket. To me, it's as dumb as having all your stocks invested in one company. I keep thinking back to how the Republicans sabotaged Obamacare. What if they sabotage medicare too and I can't use anything else because Bernie made it all illegal?? Whatever national healthcare plan we put into place has to allow the consumer to have some freedom of choice so that there's a little competition to keep everything above board and on the up and up.

 

[skysolo]

I'm way too scared of just forcing medicare onto everyone though. I can imagine too many ways that medicare might get fucked up to trust putting all my eggs in one basket.

I'm scared too.

I'm scared people will go to the doctor before something is life threatening and they are "forced" to.

I can imagine too many ways that would save money.

If someone has a private insurance plan then all of their eggs are in one basket already. Your analogy makes no sense.

 

[D 1 Wrestler]

22 studies on the projected cost impact for single-payer health insurance in the United States have been conducted recently. Every single study predicted that it would yield net savings over several years. In fact, it’s the only way to rein in health care spending significantly in the U.S.

All of the studies, regardless of ideological orientation, showed that long-term cost savings were likely. Even the Mercatus Center, a right-wing think tank, recently found about $2 trillion in net savings over 10 years from a single-payer Medicare for All system.

Medicare for All is far less costly than our current system largely because it reduces administrative costs. With one public plan negotiating rates with health care providers, billing becomes quite simple. We do away with three-quarters of the estimated $812 billion the U.S. now spends on health care administration.

Administrative costs are so high because thousands of insurance companies individually negotiate benefit rules and rates with thousands of hospitals and doctors. On top of that, they rely on different billing procedures — and this puts a costly burden on providers.

Administrative savings from Medicare for All would be about $600 billion a year. Savings on prescription drugs would be between $200 billion and $300 billion a year, if we paid about the same price as other wealthy countries pay for their drugs.

https://thehill.com/blogs/congress-...XhHSIJ9BcUSvoytdh1N6IjPqLFoBqXtPqUxIRFHmz3MGI

So, we know that the United States pays twice as much as anyone else for healthcare under our current system... and we know that every analysis ever done has shown that single payer would lower costs significantly.

But we bull-headedly insist on a system where:
1. We pay twice as much
2. 80 million people are uninsured or under insured
3. Half a million people a year go medically bankrupt
4. We lose our insurance if we lose our jobs

All because... Why?

"Muh socialism!!!!"

How dumb are we?

Trump is gonna repeal and replace with somethin reeeeealllllly good right guys?

 

[Oliver Clothesoff]

I actually voted for Obama and was all in for Obamacare. I was more than willing to pay more for my own insurance if it mean others who couldn't afford it would be able to have it. I just never realized that for them to have it, it would mean that my children would go without.

Our Govt. is incompetent and corrupt and the scope of the problem is too big and too expensive for the middleclass to afford. Whatever we were doing before was better and I'll never vote to have our Govt. take over anything again if I can help it. Just can't be done here.

Half our citizens are Obese and there are literally thousands upon thousands with diabetes living on Dialysis for 30 grand a month or more. We'd be better off spending some money and resources on getting people to live healthier lifestyles. If you're THAT overweight and you refuse to do anyting about it, then that's on you. I'm not going to pay for it anymore. I think our best option is to undo everything that's been done and go back to what we had before and start all over from there with a clearer vision of what we are up against. Trusting our Govt. to fix something THEY fucked up is not the right answer.

 

[PHATV]

Well I pray that you never get to experience what I have losing their mother to cancer and getting hit with six figures in medical bills. Anyone short of being wealthy is in trouble.

I'm not wealthy by any means, but I've always kept HC coverage for me and mine and while it isn't cheap it's mostly covered by your employer here if you work full-time. I'm a survivor myself and I only had to pay to my deductible and a bit more for a couple years. Four figures and fairly low four figures at that.
I'm sorry for your loss.

 

[Raptac]

If you have a better plan then let's hear it.

The current system is broken. If you can't agree to that then you are just trolling.

Hate to be a broken record but 30 million people without healthcare and 50 million with little healthcare in the richest country to ever be.

This is the better plan, majority are better off with this then socialist commi bs.

Show me how the new system will better the healthcare for the majority of murcians? and then and only then would you have a realistic chance of implementing it.

 

[skysolo]

This is the better plan, majority are better off with this then socialist commi bs.

Show me how the new system will better the healthcare for the majority of murcians? and then and only then would you have a realistic chance of implementing it.

So 20-30% of the country don't matter?

You would make a great president.

You can't even agree that the current system is broken. Your brain is broken.

 

[D 1 Wrestler]

Do right wingers ever get tired of saying “government cant run things”

Well unless you talk about the greatest country ever, or the largest military on earth, or the mail.

The government in fact runs huge institutions.

And republicans stop saying you’re “small government” you aren’t. You haven’t been in 50+ years.

Farmers need welfare for long term success of the country

We dont need Medicare for all for long term success of the country, let people die and go bankrupt

- @Seano probably

 

[Zazen]

I actually voted for Obama and was all in for Obamacare. I was more than willing to pay more for my own insurance if it mean others who couldn't afford it would be able to have it. I just never realized that for them to have it, it would mean that my children would go without.

Our Govt. is incompetent and corrupt and the scope of the problem is too big and too expensive for the middleclass to afford. Whatever we were doing before was better and I'll never vote to have our Govt. take over anything again if I can help it. Just can't be done here.

Half our citizens are Obese and there are literally thousands upon thousands with diabetes living on Dialysis for 30 grand a month or more. We'd be better off spending some money and resources on getting people to live healthier lifestyles. If you're THAT overweight and you refuse to do anyting about it, then that's on you. I'm not going to pay for it anymore. I think our best option if so undo everything that's been done and go back to what we had before and start all over from there with a more clear vision.

We need to bring back fat shaming and I'm not even joking. In Asia if you gain even a little weight people get on your ass about it real quick. I didn't like it at first but it kept me in check and looking back on it I actually felt happy to have someone care about me. We get on people here about smoking and fat people are actually a bigger risk no pun intended.

 

[Seano]

Farmers need welfare for long term success of the country

We dont need Medicare for all for long term success of the country, let people die and go bankrupt

- @Seano probably

Remind me what it was I did that got to you so badly?

 

[Raptac]

So 20-30% of the country don't matter?

You would make a great president.

You can't even agree that the current system is broken. Your brain is broken.

Not broken for a large majority. Own up to that.

Own up to your own failures and better your own life. Dont expect me or others to do it for you.

 

[Seano]

Not broken for a large majority. Own up to that.

Own up to your own failures and better your own life. Dont expect me or others to do it for you.

eh, I've said that to some of these guys before and that is truly an alien concept to them. They truly can't grasp the concept of making something of themselves.

 

[Ruprecht]

Switzerland has high OOP spending relative to other countries with UHC and it's OOP maximum is about 1/10 of the US'. @Ruprecht what is the OOP max in the land where people eat barbecued shrimps?

Are you talking health insurance or World Health Organisation statistics?
We have a 2 tier system for health cover (public and private, both heavily regulated), but if for some reason you don't like money you could always just find a private doctor and pay for their services entirely without insurance.
Maximum permitted excesses under private insurance however are limited to $750 (AUD) for singles and $1500 for families (it was increased last year). Although that's only usually available on private insurance where you're just trying to minimise your premiums because you're not utilising it.
The World Health Organisation statistics on OOP are based on the percentage of overall health spending in the country covered by out of pocket expenses, so it's pretty meaningless without actually comparing the amount spent. OOP is something like 18-19% of our overall health spending, but then our total health expenditure is @$7485 (AUD) per capita, compared to the latest US figures of @$10224 (USD, which equates to $15462 AUD). So the fact that in the US OOP spending is "only" @11% of health expenditure has to be looked at in the context of you spending more than twice as much overall per capita.

 

[KONG-D'SNT-TAP]

Farmers need welfare for long term success of the country

We dont need Medicare for all for long term success of the country, let people die and go bankrupt

- @Seano probably

Yeah, it’s such small minded thinking.

And he’s one of the worst. It’s like republicans made him in a lab and let him lose into the general public

 

[KONG-D'SNT-TAP]

I don't know the military or mail are the examples you want.

The mail is the perfect example. Your comment is idiotic

 

[PHATV]

Remind me what it was I did that got to you so badly?

Pac/Bradley scorecard.

 

[Seano]

Pac/Bradley scorecard.

No that was @LogicalInsanity

@D 1 Wrestler strikes me as an "everyone gets a trophy" kid all grown up and wondering why the real world is so tough and is wondering when the grown ups are going to step in and do everything for him.

 

[hillelslovak87]

I had an asthma attack in a foreign country, I was treated very well. I stayed in a hospital for 3 nights and was given medication to heal. This costed me less than 600 dollars. I went back to the local CVS in America later to pick up more medication. They wanted 400 bucks for the same drugs.

So I get a hospital stay, 24 hour care, affordable medicine for a bit more than what the drugs cost me in the states.

Who has the freedom here?

If you don't want it yourself then how about the future? I have a child and I would feel absolutely awful for not voting UHC in.

I get that a lot of guys here are single and can only think of themselves but let's also think about our brothers and sisters of this nation. We had that once but we've lost that love for one another.

The tactic people use to bemoan universal systems of healthcare and make the US for profit system sound superior is twofold:

1. Find the worse case scenarios from one country, typically Britain or Canada, and represent the whole with anecdotes

2. Cherrypick a single data point about America's healthcare rankings, typically cancer survival rates after surgery, and represent it as if it's the whole

So we get a reality in which US consumers pay twice as much for equivalent care, bankrupting us, while the corporate owned politicians insist we have the bestest system ever. Then they pick, at every turn, away at legislation like the ACA that they were involved in crafting, and state it doesn't work, neglecting to note their own sabotage.

 

[Seano]

Yeah, it’s such small minded thinking.

And he’s one of the worst. It’s like republicans made him in a lab and let him lose into the general public

Send me a few grand. You're always talking about how successful you are and I'm a working stiff. I deserve some of your money.