Chinese virus from a Wuhan laboratory?

[MicroBrew]

Not exactly, it said the earliest case was a lab employee, and that 13 of the first 41 known cases had no direct links to the market....that suggests 28 of the first 41 cases did have a direct link to the market. 2/3 cases were directly linked to the market and it's very easily possible that the 13 that weren't could have came into contact with someone that was at the marked and contacted corona but were asymptomatic since we now know that individuals can transmit the virus without having any symptoms of it.

That could be true but since the first case was a lab worker, isn't it also possible that atleast 1 person in the 28 group caught the virus from one of the 13 ? This person then spread it to others in the market.

 

[the big marmot]

it certanly came from that laboratory. if it was created or just cultivated is just a detail now. china is to 100% blame

 

[Seano]

This was a few weeks ago so it may be outdated already, we'll see what the consensus is when this is all over.

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2020/03/200326144357.htm

Using comparative analysis of genomic data, the scientists show that SARS-CoV-2 is not a laboratory construct or a purposefully manipulated virus.

Professor Holmes said: "There is simply no evidence that SARS-CoV-2 -- the cause of COVID-19 -- came out of a lab. In reality, this is the sort of natural disease emergence event that researchers in the field like myself have been warning about for many years."

I love all these people coming out saying "Didn't I warn you?" We have an epidemic or pandemic outbreak every 8 years or so. If I say we will have another in 7 or 8 years, do I get to pretend to be Nostradamus?

 

[The Audience]

Not exactly, it said the earliest case was a lab employee,

Where are you reading that from? This is what the Lancet paper says about the 1st confirmed case on Dec 1:

"The symptom onset date of the first patient identified was Dec 1, 2019. None of his family members developed fever or any respiratory symptoms. No epidemiological link was found between the first patient and later cases."

One of the scientists who authored the study has since further elaborated on the details of this man:

"Wu Wenjuan, a senior doctor at Wuhan's Jinyintan Hospital and one of the authors of the study, told the BBC Chinese Service that the patient was an elderly man who suffered from Alzheimer's disease.

"He (the patient) lived four or five buses from the seafood market, and because he was sick he basically didn't go out,” Wu Wenjuan said."

(https://www.bbc.com/future/article/20200221-coronavirus-the-harmful-hunt-for-covid-19s-patient-zero)

Saying that he was a lab employee has quite significant implications, so I would be interested to read clarification of this if you have it.

 

[ocean size]

I love all these people coming out saying "Didn't I warn you?" We have an epidemic or pandemic outbreak every 8 years or so. If I say we will have another in 7 or 8 years, do I get to pretend to be Nostradamus?

Well they did warn politicians. You didn't warn shit so you don't get to do it in hindsight. They are professional epidemiologists that were warning not if but when, I don't blame the guy for responding as such to the notion we need some bioweapon theory to explain COVID-19.

If you were as tuned in as that guy, pre-Dec 2019 you would have been making posts about 1) pulling 2/3 of the CDC staff and on-the-ground epidemiologists out of bat soup land, 2) getting rid of the NSC pandemic team, 3) How we need to have a private-public plan for testing and PPE production

 

[MaxFR]

it certanly came from that laboratory. if it was created or just cultivated is just a detail now. china is to 100% blame

China is 100% to blame no matter what. Whether it came from the market or a lab has little importance.

 

[Amerikuracana]

Given Dr. Fauci's tendency to be wrong about 50% of the time, I would say there is at least a 50% chance.

But seriously, what are the odds that the virology center that houses different strands of Covid viruses, that manipulates them for research, just happens to be next to the ground zero epicenter of where a new Covid virus began its spread? What are the odds of that?

 

[lifelessheap]

This was a few weeks ago so it may be outdated already, we'll see what the consensus is when this is all over.

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2020/03/200326144357.htm

Using comparative analysis of genomic data, the scientists show that SARS-CoV-2 is not a laboratory construct or a purposefully manipulated virus.

Professor Holmes said: "There is simply no evidence that SARS-CoV-2 -- the cause of COVID-19 -- came out of a lab. In reality, this is the sort of natural disease emergence event that researchers in the field like myself have been warning about for many years."

Oh, you believe the "news.". LoL

 

[Cirris]

The biggest thing about this scenario is how it is being portrayed.

The "conspiracy" is always tied together by two premises. That the Virus was Bio-engineered. And that the Virus came from a Wuhan lab.

Those two premises were ALWAYS tied together in the "debunk" or "dismissal" arguments.

There are ways to tell if a virus is engineered. there's telltale signs in the virus's genetic code.

But there's no fucking way to tell if the virus came from a dead bat in a meat market, or a bat in a testing lab.

This is why the "Conspiracy" debunkers add the premise that the Virus is bio-engineered. This way they can dismiss the claims of a lab escape, while not actually having evidence to back that claim.

 

[Voodoo_Child906]

Oh, you believe the "news.". LoL

 

[Amerikuracana]

The biggest thing about this scenario is how it is being portrayed.

The "conspiracy" is always tied together by two premises. That the Virus was Bio-engineered. And that the Virus came from a Wuhan lab.

Those two premises were ALWAYS tied together in the "debunk" or "dismissal" arguments.

There are ways to tell if a virus is engineered. there's telltale signs in the virus's genetic code.

But there's no fucking way to tell if the virus came from a dead bat in a meat market, or a bat in a testing lab.

This is why the "Conspiracy" debunkers add the premise that the Virus is bio-engineered. This way they can dismiss the claims of a lab escape, while not actually having evidence to back that claim.

I'm not even sure they are 100% on whether the virus was tinkered with in a lab or not. These people are wrong a lot these days, unfortunately.

 

[Seano]

Well they did warn politicians. You didn't warn shit so you don't get to do it in hindsight. They are professional epidemiologists that were warning not if but when, I don't blame the guy for responding as such to the notion we need some bioweapon theory to explain COVID-19.

If you were as tuned in as that guy, pre-Dec 2019 you would have been making posts about 1) pulling 2/3 of the CDC staff and on-the-ground epidemiologists out of bat soup land, 2) getting rid of the NSC pandemic team, 3) How we need to have a private-public plan for testing and PPE production

This goes beyond anything I said and you're just making up a bunch of garbage you assume other people would say. Like I said, we have a breakout every few years. Swine flu, bird flu, influenza, SARS, MERS, Ebola... we've had all of those this century. There'll be some other weird thing that comes out of China or some jungle in Africa in 4 or 5 years too and millions of people will get infected with those diseases, just like they did with the previous outbreaks. We know they are going to happen because w do nothing to stop these outbreaks from popping out of the same places over and over again. Too PC.
We've actually been more successful slowing down Covid19 than we were many of those others. We don't recognize an outbreak as and outbreak until its, you know, an outbreak but we know they're going to happen every half decade or so. In 5 years, I can bump this thread and say "I told you so! Didn't I warn everyone?"

 

[HockeyBjj]

What exactly is the original story? I know it involves some bats being butchered in an open market which introduced the virus. My question: Was this a new virus and the bats passed it along? Or was this virus around a long time and it was passed to humans for the first time? The notion that it's an older virus and has been around doesn't make sense as it can't be the first time bats like that were butchered at the market. Whatever they are doing with live animals at the market I would guess they have been doing the same thing for hundreds of years.

Viruses have the ability to mutate. Evolve. So it isn’t something that had to have been around hundreds of years, even if the same thing was being done all that time.

Introducing a virus into a new host can cause a rapid evolution of the virus. Hence seeing bats, and hundreds of other animals alive, dying, and freshly dead in one place can offer an accessible avenue for something to get into a handful of different hosts, one of which pops the magic button that allows this to spread human to human so easily. After a hundred years of this, one hit the global pandemic lottery.

Also I believe SARS, incredibly similar, they traced back to a bat virus that jumped to a different animal and then to a human so the theories that this could have definitely been a similar original transmission path where this Coronavirus is far more infectious than SARS was.

My understanding of it at least.

 

[MicroBrew]

The biggest thing about this scenario is how it is being portrayed.

The "conspiracy" is always tied together by two premises. That the Virus was Bio-engineered. And that the Virus came from a Wuhan lab.

Those two premises were ALWAYS tied together in the "debunk" or "dismissal" arguments.

There are ways to tell if a virus is engineered. there's telltale signs in the virus's genetic code.

But there's no fucking way to tell if the virus came from a dead bat in a meat market, or a bat in a testing lab.

This is why the "Conspiracy" debunkers add the premise that the Virus is bio-engineered. This way they can dismiss the claims of a lab escape, while not actually having evidence to back that claim.

Yeah there is a misleading and deceptive attempt to make people believe the virus was man-made if it came from the lab. Virtually all major media are always painting the lab scenario this way. This is outright deception that most of the public will not notice.

 

[fedoriswar37]

I think people are mixing "it came from a lab" with "it was made in lab". It's very possible from the video I posted the Chinese discovered a new virus in nature and brought it back to the lab to study it. Then with their know shity safety procedures it escape the lab.

This is pretty much where I stand. I dont think its a bunch of nefarious CPP techs in labcoats creating a virus, but the idea that it could have been a gross mishandling of something extremely dangerous that escalated to where we are is a completly valid question to ask.

 

[fedoriswar37]

Given Dr. Fauci's tendency to be wrong about 50% of the time, I would say there is at least a 50% chance.

But seriously, what are the odds that the virology center that houses different strands of Covid viruses, that manipulates them for research, just happens to be next to the ground zero epicenter of where a new Covid virus began its spread? What are the odds of that?

Oh you tinfoil hat you how dare you ask a question

 

[HomeCheese]

It is a new virus in that its the first time that it has been seen in humans, and the closest match to any other known virus is that of a bat coronavirus, which shows a 96% genetic similarity. The notion that it was passed through consumption of bats may have arisen from this understanding, however it is not thought to be the most likely scenario because the other two significant coronaviruses in humans are both transmitted through another animal host before they emerged as well adapted to humans. The mystery is in finding this animal, and this would really help demostrate the evolutionary path of the virus from start to human.

So possibly and existing virus had a sudden 4% mutation making it so deadly? I'll go back and suggest whatever they were doing in that market they have been doing for hundreds of years. Whatever was eaten or butchered it certainly wasn't the first time.

Is 4% considered a mutation or different all together? I think there is a gnome project going and have estimated Oct 28 as the day it was passed to humans. I'm not sure they still believe this or not. I think the genetic testing showed for example, all off the cases in Iran came from one infected person. This was back when they had 20k cases, don't know if it's still true.

Thanks for the info.

 

[C0NCH3TO]

Some chinese people have had those weird eating habits ( tried to be nice ) for many, many years and that market operated for many, many years as well. Suddenly this happened. Surprisingly there is a 4 year old, very dangerous, biosafety level 4 lab 20 miles from said market with prior safety recalls. How curious. Well, let’s ask the chinese gov.... lmao.

Imho that shit wasn't “ handled” properly and spilled from there. Was it on purpose or a mistake? Who knows......

 

[hypocalking]

It may have escaped from the lab and still be a natural development, not a man-made virus.

Possible options:

a) virus originates in bats, especially the horseshoe bats found in Yunnan province. Virus jumps to another species, possibly a pangolin. At the Wuhan market, the virus jumps from the Pangolin to patient zero
b) Patient zero brings the virus into the Seafood market, and starts the outbreak
c) Virus originates in Asian Pangolin and jumps to humans at the Wuhan market
d) Researchers at one of the 2 virology labs in Wuhan are studying the virus, and the virus infects a researcher unbeknownst to staff.
e) Researchers at one of the 2 labs , while studying and experimenting with the virus introduce a process or organic matter to the virus which allows it mutates. Unbeknownst to the staff the virus infects a researcher and esacpes.
-

Shi Zhengli , affectionately referred to as China's batwoman, is famous for studying coronaviruses in bats, first wondered if the virus had escaped from her lab. Because she found a remarkable similarity between this virus and coronavirus in Yunnan horseshoe bats. She was skeptical of the Wuhan seafood market theory because these horseshoe bats are not found in that area. She looked at her notes to see if the SARS-Cov-2 virus matched the genome of the viruses she studied and was relieved to find it didn't . But there is another virology lab in Wuhan that was also studying bats and viruses.

How shitty is the scientist researcher that got infected at the lab if that's what happened lets say?

 

[The Audience]

So possibly and existing virus had a sudden 4% mutation making it so deadly? I'll go back and suggest whatever they were doing in that market they have been doing for hundreds of years. Whatever was eaten or butchered it certainly wasn't the first time.

Is 4% considered a mutation or different all together? I think there is a gnome project going and have estimated Oct 28 as the day it was passed to humans. I'm not sure they still believe this or not. I think the genetic testing showed for example, all off the cases in Iran came from one infected person. This was back when they had 20k cases, don't know if it's still true.

Thanks for the info.

I dont think its a case of one virus having a sudden 4% genetic mutation. Rather, it is generally a more gradual natural evolution over time adding mutations. Also, consider that these bats are usually found in large numbers tightly packed into caves, which is ideal for virus evolution so as they move between different hosts, they can recombine with other coronaviruses and a new strain can emerge that may have mutations that make them more adaptable to a specific host. If you are interested in learning more, this paper explains how these viruses evolve through hosts.