MMA as it's own style?

[AndyMaBobs]

You misread. Lower level Muay Thai competition has a more limited clinch than higher level Muay Thai, hence we can't define Kickboxing based on a more limited clinch. Maybe time-limited clinches but I'm not sure there either... Point is, it's a slippery slope distingushing Kickboxing from Muay Thai based on the extent of the clinch, since this varies even within Muay Thai.

Low-level Muay Thai is western muay thai. Which is trained with a completely different martial arts/scoring culture that makes the clinch weaker. It's not the same as K-1 rules (which Glory and One use) which has actual codified rules to limit clinching unless Stamp Fairtex does it.

 

[User89]

Low-level Muay Thai is western muay thai. Which is trained with a completely different martial arts/scoring culture that makes the clinch weaker. It's not the same as K-1 rules (which Glory and One use) which has actual codified rules to limit clinching unless Stamp Fairtex does it.

But it's still called Muay Thai

 

[j123]

You misread. Lower level Muay Thai competition has a more limited clinch than higher level Muay Thai, hence we can't define Kickboxing based on a more limited clinch. Maybe time-limited clinches but I'm not sure there either... Point is, it's a slippery slope distinguishing Kickboxing from Muay Thai based on the extent of the clinch, since this varies even within Muay Thai.

There are some interchangeable techniques between the two, but when you look deep you'll see a difference between the two. Ultimately depends on the more open the ruleset is. Full thai rules which means freedom on the clinch, you do see it pretty significantly.

But it's still called Muay Thai

Well, you normally look at what the style encompasses of at all levels, and aim for the higher bar to see the potential of what's offered. I don't think most people are going to look at sloppy brawlers in rural Alaska taking part in boxing fights and judge the system of boxing as a whole because the fighters there lacked significantly in movement, distance, and defense.

 

[User89]

There are some interchangeable techniques between the two, but when you look deep you'll see a difference between the two. Ultimately depends on the more open the ruleset is. Full thai rules which means freedom on the clinch, you do see it pretty significantly.


Well, you normally look at what the style encompasses of at all levels, and aim for the higher bar to see the potential of what's offered. I don't think most people are going to look at sloppy brawlers in rural Alaska taking part in boxing fights and judge the system of boxing as a whole because the fighters there lacked significantly in movement, distance, and defense.

When Pettis beat Thompson, people were talking about the effectiveness of Muay Thai slowly breaking down Thompson, yet Rofus himself labels his gym Kickboxing. At this stage it refers more to the lineage of the instructor.. They all kick with the shin these days if it's a full contact gym.

There's no real point splitting hairs whether Rofus has a Muay Thai academy or not since he is teaching Muay Thai techniques, alongside the old techniques of TMA.

Maybe Freestyle Kickboxing would be an alternative term but it's just semantics (what you wish to call something).

 

[AndyMaBobs]

But it's still called Muay Thai

yes, but my point is that your statement was incorrect - limited implies limited by ruleset, not by ability. It's still called Muay Thai because it's muay thai, Pornsaneh very rarely clinched, that doesn't mean he isn't fighting muay thai

When Pettis beat Thompson, people were talking about the effectiveness of Muay Thai slowly breaking down Thompson, yet Rofus himself labels his gym Kickboxing. At this stage it refers more to the lineage of the instructor.. They all kick with the shin these days if it's a full contact gym.

There's no real point splitting hairs whether Rofus has a Muay Thai academy or not since he is teaching Muay Thai techniques, alongside the old techniques of TMA.

Maybe Freestyle Kickboxing would be an alternative term but it's just semantics (what you wish to call something).

Roufusport is a re-branded muay thai program, by the websites own admission + part of the USMF

 

[SandisLL]

Earlier Roufus were into PAK murcin kick boxing, most likely already changed now.

Yeah, sometimes a muay thai fighter might end fight only buy using of couple of kicks, if 0 clinch and might happen 0 punch throwed, it still will be MT. Even if kicks only had been landed.

 

[User89]

yes, but my point is that your statement was incorrect - limited implies limited by ruleset, not by ability.

But Dutch Muay Thai guys don't learn as much either. They train for the ruleset they compete in

 

[User89]

Roufusport is a re-branded muay thai program, by the websites own admission + part of the USMF

Where? https://roufusport.com/roufusport-kickboxing-association/

 

[SandisLL]

There does not exists stuff called Dutch muay thai.
There is stuff called Dutch KB rullset. K-1 aka Glory style.
-

 

[AndyMaBobs]

Where? https://roufusport.com/roufusport-kickboxing-association/

https://roufusport.com/programs/kickboxing-and-boxing-classes/

Based on Muay Thai – the 700 year old National sport of Thailand – Roufusport’s Kickboxing program is known around the world as one of the premier Striking systems available, and great to know for practical self defense.

There’s never been a better time to discover how kickboxing and boxing can change your life! That’s because at Roufusport MMA Academy, beginners can start at anytime!

• Member United States Muaythai Federation (USMF)

To find out more, just take a minute to complete the short contact form on this page to your right. A helpful Roufusport staff member will contact you so you can get started in the Roufusport Striking program today with a FREE class!

Quotes from that page

But Dutch Muay Thai guys don't learn as much either. They train for the ruleset they compete in

'Dutch Muay Thai' is not a thing. Dutch kickboxing is based on Kyokushin + Kenji Kurosaki's Mejiro style kickboxing, not muay thai.

The dutch competed in Muay Thai in the 80s, in some events but for the most part competed in kickboxing in Europe. The style has had influence from Muay Thai, but it's not 'dutch muay thai' it's kickboxing.

Even the more 'muay thai' influenced coaches like Lucien Carbin do not consider it really to be Muay Thai. 'Dutch Muay Thai' is more Americans mislabelling the nations approach to fighting.

 

[User89]

https://roufusport.com/programs/kickboxing-and-boxing-classes/





Quotes from that page




'Dutch Muay Thai' is not a thing. Dutch kickboxing is based on Kyokushin + Kenji Kurosaki's Mejiro style kickboxing, not muay thai.

The dutch competed in Muay Thai in the 80s, in some events but for the most part competed in kickboxing in Europe. The style has had influence from Muay Thai, but it's not 'dutch muay thai' it's kickboxing.

Even the more 'muay thai' influenced coaches like Lucien Carbin do not consider it really to be Muay Thai. 'Dutch Muay Thai' is more Americans mislabelling the nations approach to fighting.

If I take a Muay Thai class in Europe, will I elbow someone in sparring? If I don't, then it's just like (traditional) Karate and TKD. Elbow, low kicks and knees to mitts but not in sparring.

 

[AndyMaBobs]

If I take a Muay Thai class in Europe, will I elbow someone in sparring? If I don't, then it's just like (traditional) Karate and TKD. Elbow, low kicks and knees to mitts but not in sparring.

You're not saying anything here

 

[User89]

You're not saying anything here

There are kickboxing. Karate, TKD places in which you learn all these things but are not allowed to use them in sparring

 

[User89]

So, if Muay Thai is fundamentally different from KB regardless of region, you would expect that I can elbow someone in sparring, as one of the distinct trade marks. Yet that doesn't seem to be the case.

 

[AndyMaBobs]

So, if Muay Thai is fundamentally different from KB regardless of region, you would expect that I can elbow someone in sparring, as one of the distinct trade marks. Yet that doesn't seem to be the case.

You don't tend to elbow in sparring even in Thailand.

Either way, you're not really making sense here, you're just saying a lot of stuff that isn't true, and then when its explained why it's not true, you move onto the next point - but it's hard to read what point you're actually trying to make.

So to clear it up:

Muay Thai, is a martial art onto itself.

Kickboxing is a collection of different rulesets but broadly when we refer to kickboxing we refer to K1 rules. K1 itself is a ruleset rather than a martial art, hence Buakaw, that tends to be the case for most of kickboxing.

Dutch Muay Thai doesn't exist.

 

[SandisLL]

K1 itself is a ruleset rather than a martial art

Exactly. Like all euro KB too it is ruleset, depends from rules but yeah, these are competitions rules.

Dutch Muay Thai doesn't exist.

Yes.
There is stuff called Dutch KB that had been tailored to train to compete under exact KB rules.

 

[User89]

You don't tend to elbow in sparring even in Thailand.

Either way, you're not really making sense here, .

If you want to distinguish Muay Thai from Kickboxing, you have to point to things they always train in Muay Thai that they never train in Kickboxing. Can you do that?

 

[User89]

K1 itself is a ruleset rather than a martial art, hence Buakaw, that tends to be the case for most of kickboxing.

Dutch Muay Thai doesn't exist.

There are clubs who call themselves kickboxing and more specifically writes : can be described as K1-kickboxing.

 

[User89]

I suppose the takedown in uniquely Muay Thai. Something you will learn at any place, any region of the world, any level. But some places don't do it much

 

[II Muchetto II]

I see spacetime opened up a new account