Anthony Joshua vs. Oleksandr Usyk.

[Based and White Pilled]

We've seen a robotic and cautious HW champion who has reigned close to 10 years.

Maybe you should take a break from the interweb for a few weeks. You seem confused.

Assuming you're talking about Wlad, I think it's fair to say that his game was a lot more nuanced than Joshua's even if he was just as stiff. The earlier description of Joshua that's since been shortened to "robotic" included criticism of the simplicity of his boxing.

 

[Skeletor2021]

He never recovered against Ruiz. He was getting hurt with every shot.

So what? Evander Holyfield said that Ruiz is one of the hardest hitting guys he's ever sparred

 

[Seano]

So what? Evander Holyfield said that Ruiz is one of the hardest hitting guys he's ever sparred

What do you mean so what? He was getting hurt everytime Ruiz touched him. Arreola took Ruiz's punches. So did Joseph Parker.

 

[Skeletor2021]

What do you mean so what? He was getting hurt everytime Ruiz touched him. Arreola took Ruiz's punches. So did Joseph Parker.

Joseph Parker went the distance with Joshua. He clearly has a good chin. I don't know much about Arreola and how many flush punches he took

 

[Hypetrainhipsta]

Joshua has to step up from his performance against an ancient Pulev, I was not impressed by that one. An old Wlad has already layed to blueprint on how to beat Pulev if you're a big puncher and that was years ago.
If he's too cautious and tries to outbox Usyk it could become a long night for him. If he's able to draw Usyk into a firefight (we have seen him getting sucked into one more than once) he probably has the best chance of beating him, unless he gasses out and Usyk has the combination of chin+stamina to break him down.

 

[aries]

That's a weird response. What does Joe Joyce have to do with a guy claiming he hasn't seen any flaws in Joshua's game?

Not it's not. It's pointing out robotic fighters don't look good to the eye but they can be very effective. Take Vitali Klitschko as another example. Being robotic isn't some terrible flaw by itself.

 

[aries]

We've seen a robotic and cautious HW champion who has reigned close to 10 years.

Maybe you should take a break from the interweb for a few weeks. You seem confused.

I seem confused about what? I pointed out that Joshua holds 3 belts despite being robotic then you back up my comment by mentioning Wlad. I think it's you who are confused.

 

[Seano]

Joseph Parker went the distance with Joshua. He clearly has a good chin. I don't know much about Arreola and how many flush punches he took

So if Parker took Ruiz's best because he has a good chin and Joshua got hurt with every shot, Joshua has a questionable chin.

 

[Based and White Pilled]

Not it's not. It's pointing out robotic fighters don't look good to the eye but they can be very effective. Take Vitali Klitschko as another example. Being robotic isn't some terrible flaw by itself.

So you were only responding to a single word in his paragraph?

He is basic and predictable. He has size and power, discipline, but only a basic fundamental skillset. He has no infighting, not much defence, no different looks, no traps and setups. He is stiff and plodding, basic and robotic.

He wrote that and your response was "Joe Joyce is more robotic!" <Lmaoo>

 

[aries]

So you were only responding to a single word in his paragraph?



He wrote that and your response was "Joe Joyce is more robotic!" <Lmaoo>

Now you are just being purposefully dense. He ended his paragraph with this summation

If you got a 6'6 robot and taught it how to box, it would look like Joshua

And then later in response, he said this

Joshua looks like a 6'6 boxing robot

So him thinking Joshua is a robot seems like a pretty big part of his argument.

 

[FlowchartRog]

So you were only responding to a single word in his paragraph?



He wrote that and your response was "Joe Joyce is more robotic!" <Lmaoo>

Exactly. I gave a harsh but fair and accurate assessment of Joshua, and he responds with "another boxer is also robotic".

 

[FlowchartRog]

Now you are just being purposefully dense. He ended his paragraph with this summation
And then later in response, he said this So him thinking Joshua is a robot seems like a pretty big part of his argument.

Not really, you just chose to latch onto that bit and ignore the rest of the concise and accurate description of Joshua. The boxing robot bit was just a bit of fun, and a fitting analogy of Joshua.

If there was one word to describe Joshua it would be "basic".

Also there's no comparison with Vitali. Vitali had that stiff upright Euro style yes, and could look robotic and threw largely arm punches. But he had a much higher workrate than Joshua, a much better chin and stamina, and a completely different style.

And again, Vitali being robotic doesn't make Joshua any less robotic

You seem to be very defensive of Joshua. Let's not forget how this topic started - it started with some moron saying that Joshua is a great boxer with no known weaknesses <Lmaoo>

I simply responded to that, listing Joshua's weaknesses.

 

[aries]

Not really, you just chose to latch onto that bit and ignore the rest of the concise and accurate description of Joshua. The boxing robot bit was just a bit of fun, and a fitting analogy of Joshua.

If there was one word to describe Joshua it would be "basic".

Also there's no comparison with Vitali. Vitali had that stiff upright Euro style yes, and could look robotic and threw largely arm punches. But he had a much higher workrate than Joshua, a much better chin and stamina, and a completely different style.

And again, Vitali being robotic doesn't make Joshua any less robotic

You seem to be very defensive of Joshua. Let's not forget how this topic started - it started with some moron saying that Joshua is a great boxer with no known weaknesses <Lmaoo>

I simply responded to that, listing Joshua's weaknesses.

I picked up on that because unlike your other arguments which have some validity, I don't see what this issue is with being labelled robotic like it's some big negative when we've seen plenty of robotic fighters go on to have major success. It doesn't look great but it has little to do with a boxer's actual performance imho. As for Joshua being basic that's pretty untrue to me because he throws some pretty good combinations, has good punch variety, he has an awesome uppercut which is not basic and has shown the ability to adapt and box in a different style.

 

[Jonny Ninja]

I don’t think he’s that robotic. He’s actually looked fairly fluid, for such a muscular fighter, these last 2 fights. The drop in weight/muscle has helped, no doubt.
If he is as robotic and basic as some say, then you’d expect usyk to seriously expose that. If Joshua comes in heavy and looking for the KO, that’s very possible.

can’t wait for this fight now

 

[Jonny Ninja]

I picked up on that because unlike your other arguments which have some validity, I don't see what this issue is with being labelled robotic like it's some big negative when we've seen plenty of robotic fighters go on to have major success. It doesn't look great but it has little to do with a boxer's actual performance imho. As for Joshua being basic that's pretty untrue to me because he throws some pretty good combinations, has good punch variety, he has an awesome uppercut which is not basic and has shown the ability to adapt and box in a different style.

I can’t think of anyone at HW who’s as good a combination puncher tbh. Most of his knock outs are at the end of 3/4 punch combos.

 

[Seano]

I don’t think he’s that robotic. He’s actually looked fairly fluid, for such a muscular fighter, these last 2 fights. The drop in weight/muscle has helped, no doubt.
If he is as robotic and basic as some say, then you’d expect usyk to seriously expose that. If Joshua comes in heavy and looking for the KO, that’s very possible.

can’t wait for this fight now

To be fair, in some of his earlier pro fights, where he was all hulked up, he did look a little stiff and cumbersome.

 

[Badr Hari]

I don’t think he’s that robotic. He’s actually looked fairly fluid, for such a muscular fighter, these last 2 fights. The drop in weight/muscle has helped, no doubt.
If he is as robotic and basic as some say, then you’d expect usyk to seriously expose that. If Joshua comes in heavy and looking for the KO, that’s very possible.

can’t wait for this fight now

This is a solid point about muscular fighters over 6' 5" being UNABLE to get that fluidity. We can accuse the fighter of not working enough on the sweet science or say he isn't talented but it is a serious question: Is it possible for such a huge guy bulked up with weights so much to move like regular elite boxers do in the ring? I am looking at the examples past and present and the answer seems to be no. Carnera, Abe Simon, Wladimir, Joshua. But then you get to Lennox or Fury and something changes, maybe it's god given talent. I heard once Holyfield's old coach say he was against the massive bulk and said that Evander would have performed better had he stayed leaner. Evander's argument on the topic was as long as you do the hours of training in pure boxing the motor function won't be lost. I think the truth is somewhere in the middle. If you are too invested in weight training, you simply won't have the neccesary time to practice the craft, hence you become more power-dependent. I've seen it happen with almost every kickboxer or MMAer taking steroids and throwing most of what they learnt out the window.

The irony is Usyk himself has bulked up a ton since the Chisora fight and Joshua will be slimmer than ever for this fight. They'll probably be within 3 kilos of difference on fight night and that could very well turn out to be counter-productive for Usyk. Hyped for this one.

 

[FlowchartRog]

I picked up on that because unlike your other arguments which have some validity, I don't see what this issue is with being labelled robotic like it's some big negative when we've seen plenty of robotic fighters go on to have major success. It doesn't look great but it has little to do with a boxer's actual performance imho. As for Joshua being basic that's pretty untrue to me because he throws some pretty good combinations, has good punch variety, he has an awesome uppercut which is not basic and has shown the ability to adapt and box in a different style.

Fair enough, it was just one of many things that spring to mind when describing Joshua. And tbh, partly to counter the weird notion he's this great highly skilled boxer.

We've seen robotic fighters have success, but I'm not sure anyone is going to be describing Big Joe Joyce as a great flawless boxer

And btw I don't think combos have that much to do with being basic or not. You can drill some preset combos into anyone, true skill is knowing when and where to throw, tricking your opponents, setting traps, countering effectively etc, being unpredictable, outthinking your opponent etc.

 

[FlowchartRog]

I don’t think he’s that robotic. He’s actually looked fairly fluid, for such a muscular fighter, these last 2 fights. The drop in weight/muscle has helped, no doubt.
If he is as robotic and basic as some say, then you’d expect usyk to seriously expose that. If Joshua comes in heavy and looking for the KO, that’s very possible.

can’t wait for this fight now

Not really, Usyk is a cruiserweight. If they were the same size, I would pick Usyk without hesitation, but I'm not convinced about Usyk at heavyweight at all. I think Joshua is probably just a bit too big and powerful, which even if he doesn't KO him, will make him too gunshy to let his hands go enough to outbox Joshua.

 

[Sonxy]

The irony is Usyk himself has bulked up a ton since the Chisora fight and Joshua will be slimmer than ever for this fight. They'll probably be within 3 kilos of difference on fight night and that could very well turn out to be counter-productive for Usyk. Hyped for this one.

I agree, but maybe Usyk gained some power too etc. we will see.
For me its clearly AJs best opponent since old Wlad, even if Usyk is more a cruiser.
And respect to Usyk for trying it, even if it may be the retirement paycheck.
Im hyped too.