Opinion MAID is Not Only Unethical, It's Murder

[Mike]

So they deemed her to be terminally ill? Yes she has a good amount of mental problems, but is it be all or end all? I don't know.

Not saying what she's going through is terrible, I've had crippling depression before and it puts you in the worst possible position. You feel like there is no way out of it kind of thing. You are in the deepest darkest hole and there is no light in the end of the tunnel.

But according to the article she also had autism and personality disorder. So she was going through a lot.

Not sure what to say about this, I just hope she found peace. Because once you die there is no turning back.

She isn't terminally ill I have almost the exact same set of mental disorders that she does.

 

[Mike]

They're literally sending the message that people like me should just kill ourselves. Gee thanks guys I'm sure that's going to help a lot of people out there struggling to keep going just one more month hoping if they keep fighting it'll get better.

 

[Takes_Two_To_Tango]

They're literally sending the message that people like me should just kill ourselves. Gee thanks guys I'm sure that's going to help a lot of people out there struggling to keep going just one more month hoping if they keep fighting it'll get better.

It's definitely a very extreme measures to do that's for sure. Like what I said earlier once you die, there is no turning back. So might as well do what you can to stay alive, especially if you are not terminally ill.

Yes a crippling depression is terrible, you can be be completely immobilized for weeks even months, maybe even longer. But is it a terminal illness I don't think so. Cause I know first hand, that you can overcome it. It's not easy, but it's worthwhile considering you only have one life, might as well make the best of it.

 

[shockaholic12]

If you want to die because you have some crippling illness that causes constant physical pain that is untreatable, that is one thing. The crux of mental health issues are that depressive and anxiety based disorders are commonly intertwined in such a way that MOST people with mental health issues will experience mental breakdowns in which they have suicidal thoughts. That's just part of the illness. So using those feelings as the basis to take drastic action, you have to keep in mind that we're talking about an illness that's going to make you irrationally want to harm yourself. It's extremely dangerous to be legislating in favor of supporting that thought process in any way.

Clearly this isn’t a rash decision her doctors and her came to in the midst of a mental breakdown. It’s not even happening till may. Clearly a long term plan and exploration of the idea is the protocol. Your issue here doesn’t make sense.

 

[shockaholic12]

They're literally sending the message that people like me should just kill ourselves. Gee thanks guys I'm sure that's going to help a lot of people out there struggling to keep going just one more month hoping if they keep fighting it'll get better.

someone making a personal choice is their choice. You projecting their decision on yourself is your own doing. At no point in the article does it describe anyone recommending this to anyone and it clearly states it was her choice.

Do doctors allowing people to forgo chemo mean they are telling other cancer patients they all should forgo it? No. Terrible logic.

 

[Mike]

Clearly this isn’t a rash decision her doctors and her came to in the midst of a mental breakdown. It’s not even happening till may. Clearly a long term plan and exploration of the idea is the protocol. Your issue here doesn’t make sense.

Yeah ok man. Sure they thought it out first so that makes it fine. You don't tell depressed people you're right you should kill yourself. I'm genuinely not sure why you aren't horrified at this.

Of course a person with a mental illness that makes you want to kill yourself, wants to kill herself. That's part of the illness she has.

 

[Mike]

someone making a personal choice is their choice. You projecting their decision on yourself is your own doing. At no point in the article does it describe anyone recommending this to anyone and it clearly states it was her choice.

Do doctors allowing people to forgo chemo mean they are telling other cancer patients they all should forgo it? No. Terrible logic.

You don't see how this would have an effect on other impressionable people? If you don't know anything about mental health it's ok to not chime in with your opinion on it. The people that do know understand why you don't want to in any way encourage people to take their own lives.

 

[shockaholic12]

Yeah ok man. Sure they thought it out first so that makes it fine. You don't tell depressed people you're right you should kill yourself. I'm genuinely not sure why you aren't horrified at this.

Of course a person with a mental illness that makes you want to kill yourself, wants to kill herself. That's part of the illness she has.

She wasn’t just depressed. You keep assuming your condition and hers are the exact same experience, that’s bullshit.

So if she is always wanting to die and in perpetual suffering as you say, why should she be forced to live? To protect your feelings? That’s a ton of entitlement from you.

 

[Mike]

She wasn’t just depressed. You keep assuming your condition and hers are the exact same experience, that’s bullshit.

So if she is always wanting to die and in perpetual suffering as you say, why should be forced to live? To protect you? That’s entitlement.

Because I the same conditions she does guy. I have severe depression, BPD, and am on the spectrum too. No two mentally ill people are exactly the same of course and there's variance in the disorders between men and women but I'm a hell of a lot more similar to her than you are.

 

[Two Crows]

They're literally sending the message that people like me should just kill ourselves. Gee thanks guys I'm sure that's going to help a lot of people out there struggling to keep going just one more month hoping if they keep fighting it'll get better.

I don't think that's the message, and I hope you don't take it like that.

I think they (she?) is in a place were they feel like they are hurting and don't have any hope of recovery. She may be mistaken (I'm not qualified to comment). I HOPE she is mistaken, and finds something to give her hope in continuing life, especially if it's a valid hope.

Other people, like you and myself not more than 3 years ago, feel or felt the same, but were mistaken. I get not wanting everyone who feels or thinks this might be the answer to jump in unnecessarily on an irreversible decision and potentially miss out on what life has to offer.

But it is ultimately up to the individual, IMO. I got through my spot, but the other three guys I grew up with (avoiding drugs) did not. If we count the drug addicts the numbers skyrocket. If things had not fallen into place like they did, I would have been right there with her.

I just can't criticize someone I would have been right behind in line without a little luck. I hope it doesn't end like that for her, but I understand if it does.


Fucking depressing thread, TBH

 

[Mike]

I don't think that the message, and I hope you don't take it like that.

I think they (she?) is in a place were they feel like they are hurting and don't have any hope of recovery. She may be mistaken (I'm not qualified to comment). I HOPE she is mistaken, and finds something to give her hope in continuing life, especially if it's a valid hope.

Other people, like you and myself not more than 3 years ago, feel or felt the same, but were mistaken. I get not wanting everyone who feels or thinks this might be the answer to jump in unnecessarily on an irreversible decision and potentially miss out on what life has to offer.

But it is ultimately up to the individual, IMO. I got through my spot, but the other three guys I grew up with (avoiding drugs) did not. If we count the drug addicts the numbers skyrocket. If things had not fallen into place like they did, I would have been right there with her.

I just can't criticize someone I would have been right behind in line without a little luck. I hope it doesn't end like that for her, but I understand if it does.


Fucking depressing thread, TBH

I'm not trying to criticize her, just a system that would assist her in killing herself. Yeah it's rough. One of my friends killed himself a couple years back. Not everyone is going to make it for sure. But normalizing people commiting suicide because of depression is such a dangerous road to go down.

That's part of the illness. MOST sufferers will get to the point of considering suicide at some point. Now not only will you have a route they can take to kill themselves that is easier to pursue and less stressful to carry out, but you will also have isolated mentally ill people reading this thinking see even medical professionals out there agree if I think it's not going to get better I should just do it.

 

[shockaholic12]

Because I the same conditions she does guy. I have severe depression, BPD, and am on the spectrum too. No two mentally ill people are exactly the same of course and there's variance in the disorders between men and women but I'm a hell of a lot more similar to her than you are.

All people who have depression experience the exact same levels of it? Everyone has the same types of autism? Bipolar disorder manifests the exact same way in everyone?

Bipolar disorder itself has three different diagnosis. You have no idea what you’re talking about and are making wild assumptions about her experience to make a weak point.

You ducked the question, if she is perpetually suffering and doesn’t want to live why should she be forced to? So far you’ve only argued because you will project her choices on yourself, which is the definition of entitlement.

 

[Two Crows]

I'm not trying to criticize her, just a system that would assist her in killing herself. Yeah it's rough. One of my friends killed himself a couple years back. Not everyone is going to make it for sure. But normalizing people commiting suicide because of depression is such a dangerous road to go down.

That's part of the illness. MOST sufferers will get to the point of considering suicide at some point. Now not only will you have a route they can take to kill themselves that is easier to pursue and less stressful to carry out, but you will also have isolated mentally ill people reading this thinking see even medical professionals out there agree if I think it's not going to get better I should just do it.

Yes, I can understand the cost-benefit analysis you speak of. I see where you are coming from.

It's a horrible question. On the physical level it seems relatively simple to quantify, but on the mental level, it gets dubious quickly.

I don't feel like there are any great answers here, TBH.

 

[Two Crows]

All people who have depression experience the exact same levels of it? Everyone has the same types of autism? Bipolar disorder manifests the exact same way in everyone?

Bipolar disorder itself has three different diagnosis. You have no idea why you’re talking about and are making wild assumptions about her experience to make a weak point.

You ducked the question, if she is perpetually suffering and doesn’t want to live why should she be forced to? So far you’ve only argued because you will project her choices on yourself, which is the definition of entitlement.

I agree with you, but I don't think @Mike was trying to say that.

Rather, I think he was interpreting through a very personal level and trying to warn of unintended consequences of mass acceptance leading to higher rates of suicide among those who would/might have other alternatives.

I apologize if I am off-base for either of you.

 

[Mike]

All people who have depression experience the exact same levels of it? Everyone has the same types of autism? Bipolar disorder manifests the exact same way in everyone?

Bipolar disorder itself has three different diagnosis. You have no idea why you’re talking about and are making wild assumptions about her experience to make a weak point.

You ducked the question, if she is perpetually suffering and doesn’t want to live why should she be forced to? So far you’ve only argued because you will project her choices on yourself, which is the definition of entitlement.

She's free to kill herself if that's what she wants to do. I already stated the pretty logical reasons a to why we as a society shouldn't euthanize people with conditions known to cause suicidal thoughts and urges.

 

[The_Renaissance]

Well, she isn't "totally healthy", unless you don't consider mental afflictions as real. She suffers from Autism, Borderline Personality Disorder, & Depression, and after being told by her medical professionals it wasn't going to get any better for her, she elected death over continued existence.

She has a lover, is a reasonably attractive and young person, and has several pets she cares deeply about ... what do you suggest? We force her to live unhappily so that we might experience less cognitive dissonance? She wants to go. She will find a way with or without medical assistance.

Locking her up and forcing her to live against her will, will not make the world a better place.

I'm very much 'your body, your choice' in every situation - it's a sad state of affairs, yes, but forcing someone to live if they entirely don't want to is bad, IMO.

 

[Mike]

I agree with you, but I don't think @Mike was trying to say that.

Rather, I think he was interpreting through a very personal level and trying to warn of unintended consequences of mass acceptance leading to higher rates of suicide among those who would/might have other alternatives.

I apologize if I am off-base for either of you.

I definitely wasn't and feel like what I was saying was pretty straightforward and unambiguous. You didn't seem to have any difficulty understanding my main points.

 

[shockaholic12]

She's free to kill herself if that's what she wants to do. I already stated the pretty logical reasons a to why we as a society shouldn't euthanize people with conditions known to cause suicidal thoughts and urges.

You argued because you would project others medical decisions on your own. That’s a poor reason to force people to suffer.

 

[Mike]

You argued because you would project others medical decisions on your own. That’s a poor reason to force people to suffer.

I mean even a little bit of reading comprehension should make it pretty clear that's not what I'm saying.

 

[Yehudim]

damn, people arguing to kill young people to own the conservativez