Are there actually any cases of "you can't win in thailand unless you get a KO"?

[UWanaPlayDaGame]

It's been my experience that Thai boxers take the first round as a careful feeling out and then Escalade from there on out never ceasing until they've knocked you unconscious or beaten you to a bloody pulp. I think that it's their conditioning that is quite interesting as it is not as good as one would expect from a style with that degree of concentration on running. I often use them as an example of why combat athletes should not be involved in steady-state cardio

you are parroting a string of ready made jargons that don't make any sense mate.

Muay Thai has nothing to do with beating the opponent to a bloody pulp. They actually feel each other out and will almost accommodate things unless the fighter that is losing wants to push things to the next level. they're more likely to stop fighting with a minute and a half left than to "escalate and never cease" - so they're ready to fight the next week or so. your assumptions about fight pace and cardio are fundamentally flawed.

 

[KOMRADE]

Because they score it the same whether it's thai vs foreigner or thai vs thai. Obviously someone that doesn't understand Muay Thai scoring will have a disadvantage.

Muay Thai is scored the same way any fights sport is

1- strikes that land
2-dominating the center of the ring/ lack of fouls
3-knock-down criteria

I give Muay Thai credit for being damaged oriented and still maintaining the standing eight count, you have to further respect it for the fact that it hasn't changed its rules in a very long time but I find it endlessly entertaining what lengths MT disciples will go to to justify the corrupt decision making so common in the sport. I think I was debating a couple Benny urquidez matches when it hit me that Muay Thai disciples we're dedicated to their style like the Branch Davidians were dedicated to their ranch

Benny would go out there and dribble their head like a basketball and then slam them on the mat every time they tried to knee him but they would score a few more leg kicks on him and thus would win the corrupt decision, I'm pretty sure this happened to Peter Cunningham a few times as well

Thai disciples were always desperate to disqualify the superior boxer with their nebulous special tie scoring criteria

Whenever you have that level of Third World style pressure on fights or you're going to get a lot of funny calls at the decision

for God's sake man you might get killed if you piss off the wrong people

 

[KOMRADE]

you are parroting a string of ready made jargons that don't make any sense mate.

Muay Thai has nothing to do with beating the opponent to a bloody pulp. They actually feel each other out and will almost accommodate things unless the fighter that is losing wants to push things to the next level. they're more likely to stop fighting with a minute and a half left than to "escalate and never cease" - so they're ready to fight the next week or so. your assumptions about fight pace and cardio are fundamentally flawed.

Mmmhmmm, sounds more like sparring their way to a rigged fight

 

[Kanka]

Muay Thai is scored the same way any fights sport is

1- strikes that land
2-dominating the center of the ring/ lack of fouls
3-knock-down criteria

I give Muay Thai credit for being damaged oriented and still maintaining the standing eight count, you have to further respect it for the fact that it hasn't changed its rules in a very long time but I find it endlessly entertaining what lengths MT disciples will go to to justify the corrupt decision making so common in the sport. I think I was debating a couple Benny urquidez matches when it hit me that Muay Thai disciples we're dedicated to their style like the Branch Davidians were dedicated to their ranch

Benny would go out there and dribble their head like a basketball and then slam them on the mat every time they tried to knee him but they would score a few more leg kicks on him and thus would win the corrupt decision, I'm pretty sure this happened to Peter Cunningham a few times as well

Thai disciples were always desperate to disqualify the superior boxer with their nebulous special tie scoring criteria

Whenever you have that level of Third World style pressure on fights or you're going to get a lot of funny calls at the decision

for God's sake man you might get killed if you piss off the wrong people

People are also betting on the foreigner, so if the judges don't score the fight correctly, people will also get mad at them

 

[Snubnoze707]

Muay Thai disciples always seem to make this debate when trying to justify bad scoring

Dumps and throws don't count for points but leg kicks do

all Thai boxers feel out in the first round

He's not tired it's just traditional to Coast at the end even when your losing.

You get more points for checking a leg kick thing to do for landing one that doesn't appear to knock your opponent off balance

I had my 1st muay thai class in 1985 but largely stopped watching in the 90ties because of MMA

I love the sport and think it's super cool to bring it back with MMA gloves the way one is doing so HOWEVER there's no way I'm going to sit here and say that foreigners got a fair shake when fighting a Thai in Thailand back in the day cuz everybody knows that's just not the case!

They were literally worried about making out of the stadium alive!!!

Thanks again for proving my point. Muay Thai doesn't assign "points" to techniques and even then you got what they are actually looking for wrong. You are about 30 years out of touch but it doesn't seem like you were actually in touch back then either...

 

[KOMRADE]

People are also betting on the foreigner, so if the judges don't score the fight correctly, people will also get mad at them

Good point but the fans back in Belgium aren't going to burn your Stadium down and stab you while you're walking to your ride

 

[KOMRADE]

Thanks again for proving my point. Muay Thai doesn't assign "points" to techniques and even then you got what they are actually looking for wrong. You are about 30 years out of touch but it doesn't seem like you were actually in touch back then either...

LOL@"POINTS"

Yeah... one teep to the body is exactly three points, solar plexus is 4 and face is 5 plus a shot of sangsom!
*of course Muay Thai doesn't assign "points" to particular techniques, its not
"point karate"

Like I said the funniest one is the line that punching a guy in the face 10x isn't as valuable as a leg kick!
(Classics are always the best)

 

[Snubnoze707]

LOL@"POINTS"

Yuhhuu one teep to the body is exactly three points, solar plexus is 4 and face is 5 plus a shot of sangsom

LOL

Are you making fun of yourself, or...?

 

[Kanka]

Good point but the fans back in Belgium aren't going to burn your Stadium down and stab you while you're walking to your ride

To be fair there were rumors about Ilias Bulaid punching a judge and also in a Glory event some guy punched Groenhart and also apparently during Rico vs Badr I there was a fight going on among the public.

Either way it doesn't matter because it's not going to be the foreigners that bet on the foreigner, but thai gamblers. If they bet on a foreigner and he gets robbed, they will not be happy. That might be a contributing factor to why in four page of discussion, only one no contest and one exmaple of a thai taking a dive has been posted.

On the other hand if the discussion was about any other country than Thailand, we could have plenty of examples.

Either way, I won't take your arguments seriously unless you post a video of an actual robbery. Then we can discuss the scoring aspect, plenty of people here know how fights are scored in Thailand and can do a non-biased assessment.

 

[KOMRADE]

To be fair there were rumors about Ilias Bulaid punching a judge and also in a Glory event some guy punched Groenhart and also apparently during Rico vs Badr I there was a fight going on among the public.

Either way it doesn't matter because it's not going to be the foreigners that bet on the foreigner, but thai gamblers. If they bet on a foreigner and he gets robbed, they will not be happy. That might be a contributing factor to why in four page of discussion, only one no contest and one exmaple of a thai taking a dive has been posted.

On the other hand if the discussion was about any other country than Thailand, we could have plenty of examples.

Either way, I won't take your arguments seriously unless you post a video of an actual robbery. Then we can discuss the scoring aspect, plenty of people here know how fights are scored in Thailand and non-biased assessment.

I guess I can dust off my old muay thai collection and find a few for you but that could take a while I'm pretty busy at work

it's the exact same way for the hometown boy in every fight sport ya know...

 

[Snubnoze707]

The fight you just posted happened in California and was ruled a draw...

 

[KOMRADE]

The fight you just posted happened in California and was ruled a draw...

WOW, I really got a lead you guys to the barn!

The whole point of that post was to illustrate that "hometown" decisions are commonplace and affect everyone the same way including thais.

Peter Cunningham clearly lost that fight but was saved from the D because of Hometown advantage.

you guys know how it works, dont play coy

 

[Broadcast]

You have bought too much into the Ramon Dekker narrative. But of course you're welcome to prove me wrong by posting the fights here. As you can see in this thread we have only found a few real robberies, but it only proves that it is actually not that common.

In my opinion there are far more robberies in Netherlands, France, Japan and China

Surely not in the Netherlands. But nowadays the judging is very fair, pro in Romania for example (in fact in some promotions I even think they hate their Romanian fighters). I saw some worse decisions in the Netherlands in the present, meaning they are decreasing. We have corrected stuff in Romania, we want to be an example now but it seems in KB they really don"t care. These fucks rob like hell, I am not even talking about smaller and regional scenes such as Slovakia and Moldova, I even remember how was Morosanu robbed in Australian against Ben Edwards. Totally hometown decision. Not that Australia is big, but just saying it"s Australia and normally a Western mentality. Mixfight of Germany same shit, and they want to grow. Never!

Anyway, France is not a serious scene, in kickboxing there are robberies almost everywhere. I mean they could still find some fighters, more in MT I guess, but they rob like hell. China also robbing, we all know that. At least France is backed by small promotions, but China is backed by rich and Communist promotions.

 

[Broadcast]

In France from the whole West there have been the worst decisions against Romanian fighters. It is almost impossible to take a decision there (you need to box a punching bag maybe, not even sometimes). They put shows only for 1-2 decent fighters. Seems that Belgium is also a kind of relative sometimes. Spain the same.

And Germany is full of Ubedas referees, while Switzerland and Austria are pretty fair considering some events take place at hotels or in some high school gyms (lol).

I kinda understand boxing, but kickboxing? It doesn"t matter you don"t have a clean record.

Real promotions who sign even foreign fighters for some fights, they usually don"t laugh about them. Because this is what it is a promotion. You need fighters anytime, everytime. In my country if you steal, you lose the Dutch gyms. And the reputation is destroyed for years.

People go to France for money. I see many Dutch don"t collaborate with them anymore. They would rather prefer to go to China, even being robbed, but at least being robbed for big money.

I am personally not interested Slovakia, Moldova, whatever are stealing. I don"t give a fuck, lately we don"t send anymore (lower) fighters to Moldova. Just that from France I have expectations of civilization!

 

[Snubnoze707]

WOW, I really got a lead you guys to the barn!

The whole point of that post was to illustrate that "hometown" decisions are commonplace and affect everyone the same way including thais.

Peter Cunningham clearly lost that fight but was saved from the D because of Hometown advantage.

you guys know how it works, dont play coy

So you are proving to us that Thailand is the mecca of robberies by showing us a robbery in California against the Thai?

 

[KOMRADE]

So you are proving to us that Thailand is the mecca of robberies by showing us a robbery in California against the Thai?

Close...so close

Just proving that Hometown decisions are for real and when a farang shows up in Thailand to trade leather they're no different then any country plus they got that third world spice

 

[Snubnoze707]

I guess I can dust off my old muay thai collection and find a few for you but that could take a while I'm pretty busy at work

So how's this coming along?

 

[Deleted member 363827]

Why the fuck are you guys allowing yourself to get trolled by a white belt lol

 

[KOMRADE]

So how's this coming along?

Actually I haven't had an excuse to watch classic Muay Thai in a while so I'm kind of looking forward to it but I'm on 12-hour shifts at work so it's going to be my weekend. I've had this argument a million times and I know what you guys are going to say. You always run back to the nebulous scoring criteria of whether or not the leg kick knocked your opponent off-balance while conveniently ignoring the dozens of punches to the face. I haven't watched Muay Thai with any regularity since ramon dekkars and Danny Bill fought so I don't know what's going on in the modern era but back in those days Thai judging was notoriously biased

 

[KOMRADE]

Why the fuck are you guys allowing yourself to get trolled by a white belt lol

this sounds like a snotty karate gym already. you Muay Thai disciples crack me up, you're as bad as the American wrestlers any day of the week LOL.

I do love to hear the scoring chicanery, especially as it relates to leg kicks and the knee.

the early American kickboxers were under trained in these areas so it was by far the Thais biggest opportunity. The American kickboxers were far better with their hands and landed much more crowd-pleasing Dynamic aerial kicks because of their above the waist background. I was always disappointed that America never allowed full-blown Muay Thai because it is such an incredible Style but then again the anglicized version will always be nerfed compared to the Old School stadium style I grew up with. after an international childhood my family settled in the states where I only had American kickboxing available to me and it was entertaining to here all the back and forth between the international stylists and the American stylists. I grew up with an equal exposure to boxing American kickboxing and Muay Thai so I never developed an affinity for any one particular style.

I started a kickboxing Club a few years before the movie kickboxer came out and my number one student created one of the Sport's biggest internet forums

(I'm hardly a "white belt")