DC Believes Fedor Was 'Average At Best' In 2009

[BFoe]

he definitely wouldve had a chance on the ground if he could avoid the bombs

Definitely Mir has a chance, he’s a bad motherfucker and a legend. But what I am saying (and I’ll tag @Fioretti too), is that if we start imagining who Fedor could or couldn’t beat in this scenario, I think we have to put Mir on the list of opponents that lose to Fedor, right? We can sit here and debate whether Fedor beats JDS or Cain, but we know he can beat Mir.

 

[Taric]

i think you guys are missing the point. 2009 was around the time the guard was changing. Cain and JDS and the like were cutting their teeth and they were already better than Randy, Mir and Carwin. by a lot, to be fair.

fedor was a great fighter when he was great. hes an all time great. DC is making the point that he was never going to be able to compete with the best guys any longer because the high water mark had risen. he couldnt even compete with guys who were not the best, such as bigfoot and hendo. werdum to a lesser extent, because even though werdum got better after he beat fedor, he was still one of the best guys around that time.

So his/your point is that in the future fighters that hadn't done anything yet were better than everyone else? Fantastic.

The top fighters in 2009 were Fedor, Brock, Mir, Nogueira, Barnett, and Couture. They were the top fighters in 2009 'cause they had proven their elite status by actually defeating other top fighters for essentially a decade (minus Brock).

How can any one of those fighters be "average" when they were the elite of the division at the time. What he/you are proposing is the literal definition of revisionist history.

On top of that DC doesn't get to magically claim his superiority over the elite fighters of that time frame because 4 years later he finally started to defeat some quality competition. If he fought anybody of note in 2009 he probably would have lost considering he was just entering MMA.

 

[Megatronlee]

Yes, that is my point. If DC believes Fedor would have defeated the UFC HW champion then Fedor wasn't an average fighter.

Nah Brock just matched up horribly with him specifically.

but anybody else would have waxed that ass like gambit

 

[TerrorTimmy]

Fedor's time had already passed by 2009, realistically. Maybe he was better than "average" and especially at HW, but he wasn't at his best and we can't pretend otherwise

 

[Megatronlee]

H

Definitely Mir has a chance, he’s a bad motherfucker and a legend. But what I am saying (and I’ll tag @Fioretti too), is that if we start imagining who Fedor could or couldn’t beat in this scenario, I think we have to put Mir on the list of opponents that lose to Fedor, right? We can sit here and debate whether Fedor beats JDS or Cain, but we know he can beat Mir.

He beat stonewall slugger mir.

Not freakshow frank!

freakshow frank beat cheick Kongo and Todd duffee and countless others

 

[bambammccoy]

The top guys at Heavyweight in 09 were

(C)Brock Lesnar (who DC said he would beat)
1. Frank Mir (who Fedor has a W over)
2. Big Nog (who Fedor has multiple Ws over)
3. Randy Cotoure (fantasy match up I favor the more youthful Prime Fedor)
4. Andrei Arlovski(who he has a W over that year lol)
5. Josh Barnett (scheduled but never happened Josh pulled out/popped/can't remember)

Mirko was also top 10 at that time another who Fedor has a W over.

 

[MyFavSport]

 

[Final Say]

So his/your point is that in the future fighters that hadn't done anything yet were better than everyone else? Fantastic.

The top fighters in 2009 were Fedor, Brock, Mir, Nogueira, Barnett, and Couture. They were the top fighters in 2009 'cause they had proven their elite status by actually defeating other top fighters for essentially a decade.

How can any one of those fighters be "average" when they were the elite of the division at the time. What you're proposing is the literal definition of revisionist history.

On top of that DC doesn't get to magically claim his superiority over the elite fighters of that time frame because 4 years later he finally started to defeat some quality competition. If he fought anybody of note in 2009 he probably would have lost considering he was just entering MMA.

Again, you’re focusing too much on the exact rankings in 2009 because DC mentioned that specific year but you’re kind of using that to dismiss his broader point. The point he’s making is that fedor would not have been able to compete with the best fighters any more. Brock, Mir, Nog, Barnett etc, were not the best guys in the world at that time (regardless of their ranking) and it became painfully obvious within about a year of that time.

Fedor was great when he was great. It’s not a knock to say he wasn’t good enough to beat the next generation of great fighters. It’s stating the obvious.

 

[loveme]

Strange. Didn't DC say that Fedor was one of his all-time favorite fighters just a few years back?....and that he was honored to be called "the black Fedor"?
I'll look for it and post it when I find it.

 

[Taric]

Brock, Mir, Nog, Barnett etc, were not the best guys in the world at that time (regardless of their ranking) and it became painfully obvious within about a year of that time.

Except they were. You're trying refute actual reality.

"The Roman empire was average in strength because years later they fell."
This is your exact argument. Again, it's the literal definition of revisionist history. The actual textbook definition.

 

[BFoe]

H

He beat stonewall slugger mir.

Not freakshow frank!

freakshow frank beat cheick Kongo and Todd duffee and countless others

You know who Fedor had beaten as of the end of 2009?

Spoiler

Everybody he’d ever fought.

 

[BFoe]

The top guys at Heavyweight in 09 were

(C)Brock Lesnar (who DC said he would beat)
1. Frank Mir (who Fedor has a W over)
2. Big Nog (who Fedor has multiple Ws over)
3. Randy Cotoure (fantasy match up I favor the more youthful Prime Fedor)
4. Andrei Arlovski(who he has a W over that year lol)
5. Josh Barnett (scheduled but never happened Josh pulled out/popped/can't remember)

Mirko was also top 10 at that time another who Fedor has a W over.

Exactly. Things get interesting in 2010-2011, as Fedor declines (he retired in 2012) and fighters like Cain and JDS emerge. But for a good stretch, we could expect Fedor to be easily in the top 2 or 3 at worst, and champ at best. That’s a far cry from average at best, like DC claimed.

 

[Final Say]

Except they were. You're trying refute actual reality.

"The Roman empire was average in strength because years later they fell."

This is your exact argument. Again, it's the literal definition of revisionist history. The actual textbook definition.

No, they weren’t. JDS and Cain were the best at that time, they were just still working their way up the rankings. Werdum was up there too. Even Bigfoot would’ve competed with those guys you mentioned. Overeem comes to mind.

Hell even DC as a rookie would’ve likely beaten some of them.

The game had changed, it was just in the process of being digested

 

[AtomicPanther]

DC, what do you think about Fedor being better than you?

 

[Jorge Luis Borges]

Prime Fedor would've destroyed prime Cain and DC

Maybe. Maybe not.

But 2009 Fedor probably would not have destroyed 2009 Velazquez or Cain. I'd favor both those guys over Fedor in 2009, even though Fedor's legacy is greater than both of their combined imo.

 

[BFoe]

No, they weren’t. JDS and Cain were the best at that time, they were just still working their way up the rankings. Werdum was up there too. Even Bigfoot would’ve competed with those guys you mentioned.

But if Fedor came to the UFC in ‘09, he wouldn’t be fighting Cain and JDS. Those fights wouldn’t happen until late 2010/early 2011. So even if Fedor couldn’t hang with those dudes (which, like you say, would be understandable) he’d still have almost a 2 year stretch where he’d be on top and winning fights. That’s the problem with what DC is saying.

 

[kflo]

Your defense of Cormier's argument flies out the window when you consider the fact that Cormier said Fedor would defeat Lesnar (who was the champion); Cormier laughably contradicted himself.

Cormier directly addressed this point of course…..

 

[Final Say]

But if Fedor came to the UFC in ‘09, he wouldn’t be fighting Cain and JDS. Those fights wouldn’t happen until late 2010/early 2011. So even if Fedor couldn’t hang with those dudes (which, like you say, would be understandable) he’d still have almost a 2 year stretch where he’d be on top and winning fights. That’s the problem with what DC is saying.

You guys are still thinking about rankings and this and that. Who were the best guys in the world? And let’s not even get stuck on 2009, either. Look at the following years.

The game had obviously changed and was evolving. We know who the best in the world were around that time, and it damn sure wasn’t brock or the guys he beat in title fights. Those were the guys in fedor’s class, but that’s the point. That class of guys were no longer the best.

 

[kflo]

But if Fedor came to the UFC in ‘09, he wouldn’t be fighting Cain and JDS. Those fights wouldn’t happen until late 2010/early 2011. So even if Fedor couldn’t hang with those dudes (which, like you say, would be understandable) he’d still have almost a 2 year stretch where he’d be on top and winning fights. That’s the problem with what DC is saying.

Except dc was talking about how fedor stacked up against the best fighters in the ufc during that time period. Not sure why it’s so controversial. Again, he was losing 3 straight during that period.

If you want to argue fedor could have won with the right matchups that’s fine (and possible) but that wasn’t the point dc was making. Just that he wasn’t at the top of the food chain anymore.

 

[Draxton]

I love Fedor. I have a walkout hoodie! But yeah 2009-2011 were not good years for him.

Arlovski was a great win. Rogers in hindsight was not that great. A lossy to roided up Bigfoot has no shame but losing to LHW 206 pound Hendo, yikes. And jumping into the guard of a fresh Werdum???