International Dutch documentary on Saudi Arabia. Pretty good.

[MicroBrew]

As the vast majority of us here are interested in culture and politics, I think you all should watch this documentary posted on August 21st 2021. It's not gritty hard hitting like some VICE docs but at the same time it is not a fluff piece either.

The German reporter - who may be of MENA ethnicity - talks to average Saudis. He doesn't shy away from asking some uncomfortable questions.

This is a very good YT channel, with lots of documentaries on Saudi Arabia and other places.




------

I'll try to give a brief synopsis of the first 17mins of this 44minute documentary.

- Starts off mentioning the war in Yemen and contrasting the peacefull life in Saudi Arabia.

- He visits the annual Riyadh festival. He chats with a Filipino maid and some locals. He points out that the religious police (the Mutawa) tries to get people to attend prayers but not everyone supports them.

- He chats with a Apache gunship pilot and sits in the cockpit of the Apache. He asks the Saudi pilot if he fought in Yemen.

--

Dialog with Shura council member. The Shura council is the consultative body that the King can consult, but can ignore.

- Reporter asks the Shura member if it is possible to choose members (i.e. the people voting them in).

The Shura member: "You know you shouldn't deal with us here like we in Europe, we need time to develop the way of thinking , then you we can talk about election"

Reporter : But let me say they could be elected, what type of people will be in the Shura then?

Shura member: It will be tribal people , because we tribal traditon is very strong here in Saudi Arabia.

Reporter: very consevative people also ? .

Shura member: Conservative people, I mean the extremists, extremist peoples and their ideas. This kinds of people will dominate.

NOTE: It *might* be that the Shura member is opposed to elections and says extremists will be elected so that the West does not pressure Saudi to liberalize and give the masses a voice, which would threaten MBS's rule. Or he could be right, that the public will vote in religious conservatives.

- Reporter then talks with a female Shura member. The female Shura member also questions the value of free elections.

----

- Reporter then travels to Asir province, a deeply conservative region . Reporter states the 9-11 hijackers came from this region. It is a rugged mountainous area and poor.

- Reporter visits the market, where farmers sell their goods. He mentions that all the women wear the Niqab, (the full face veil) , while the region he came from some women wore it and some didn't.

- Reporter talks with an elder Abha town resident: The man speaks about how the people haven't changed at all, only now they have money to build big houses. He mentions there aren't any foreigners from India and Pakistan, like Jeddah, Mecca and Taif. Asir is not like those other Saudi cities.

- The reporter asks what if the King wants to change things, to which the man responds: No nothing changes, Asir holds on to her identity and tribal traditions. The reporter states that in that area Tribes make the law and it is difficult for the Saudi government to push reforms.

- The elderly man states that the people will accept change as long as it does not infringe on the religon and the State. Reporter then asks what happens if you go against the government, to which the man says it is dangerous. The most important thing is to not infringe on the Saudi entity, other than that you are free.

 

[Fluffernutter]

Does he touch upon KSA having the largest wealth gap in the Middle East?

 

[Crom Cruach]

Thanks for posting that.

 

[MicroBrew]

Does he touch upon KSA having the largest wealth gap in the Middle East?

Have to rewatch it as I can't recall if he touched on that.

Will add some more summaries tomorrow. Didn't want to make a summary of the whole doc in the O.P. because ain't no one gona read a huge wall of text.

 

[Renard]

It was good. I'm surprised SA allowed these journalists in and let them film like this tbh.

 

[Bald1]

Good watch so far.

The reason Islam is a problem in a nutshell:
"Our constitution is the Quran and can never be changed". Lena, about 24 minutes in.

Islam isn't just a religion. It's an all encompassing set of rules and wholly incompatible with western thought and life. As long as the oil flows and such primitives control Mecca this won't change.

Edit: The body language of the lawyer is pretty telling when he talks about Kashoggi. Lol.

 

[Bald1]

Does he touch upon KSA having the largest wealth gap in the Middle East?

So far as mentioning that fully half their population is made up of foreign workers with no rights. Think about that. Every second person you meet is a nobody. You rear end them? Their fault because they don't belong there. A foreign woman gets raped? She's the one going to jail. Crazy town. I'd never go there for all the money in the world.

At the same time they should be able to govern themselves as they see fit. As long as they contain their craziness within their borders, which isn't the case at all. The Saudi Arabia problem is a hell of a puzzle. And that country is a global problem make no mistake.

 

[ElKarlo]

Interesting thanks for the notes. It’s not available in my country.
I wonder how much the quagmire in Yemen has slowed down the changing of the economy?

 

[lweiberg]

Abu Schaubi admitting to smoking in Saudi Arabia.

Dicey, Bapa!

 

[Islam Imamate]

As the vast majority of us here are interested in culture and politics, I think you all should watch this documentary posted on August 21st 2021. It's not gritty hard hitting like some VICE docs but at the same time it is not a fluff piece either.

The German reporter - who may be of MENA ethnicity - talks to average Saudis. He doesn't shy away from asking some uncomfortable questions.

This is a very good YT channel, with lots of documentaries on Saudi Arabia and other places.




------

I'll try to give a brief synopsis of the first 17mins of this 44minute documentary.

- Starts off mentioning the war in Yemen and contrasting the peacefull life in Saudi Arabia.

- He visits the annual Riyadh festival. He chats with a Filipino maid and some locals. He points out that the religious police (the Mutawa) tries to get people to attend prayers but not everyone supports them.

- He chats with a Apache gunship pilot and sits in the cockpit of the Apache. He asks the Saudi pilot if he fought in Yemen.

--

Dialog with Shura council member. The Shura council is the consultative body that the King can consult, but can ignore.

- Reporter asks the Shura member if it is possible to choose members (i.e. the people voting them in).

The Shura member: "You know you shouldn't deal with us here like we in Europe, we need time to develop the way of thinking , then you we can talk about election"

Reporter : But let me say they could be elected, what type of people will be in the Shura then?

Shura member: It will be tribal people , because we tribal traditon is very strong here in Saudi Arabia.

Reporter: very consevative people also ? .

Shura member: Conservative people, I mean the extremists, extremist peoples and their ideas. This kinds of people will dominate.

NOTE: It *might* be that the Shura member is opposed to elections and says extremists will be elected so that the West does not pressure Saudi to liberalize and give the masses a voice, which would threaten MBS's rule. Or he could be right, that the public will vote in religious conservatives.

- Reporter then talks with a female Shura member. The female Shura member also questions the value of free elections.

----

- Reporter then travels to Asir province, a deeply conservative region . Reporter states the 9-11 hijackers came from this region. It is a rugged mountainous area and poor.

- Reporter visits the market, where farmers sell their goods. He mentions that all the women wear the Niqab, (the full face veil) , while the region he came from some women wore it and some didn't.

- Reporter talks with an elder Abha town resident: The man speaks about how the people haven't changed at all, only now they have money to build big houses. He mentions there aren't any foreigners from India and Pakistan, like Jeddah, Mecca and Taif. Asir is not like those other Saudi cities.

- The reporter asks what if the King wants to change things, to which the man responds: No nothing changes, Asir holds on to her identity and tribal traditions. The reporter states that in that area Tribes make the law and it is difficult for the Saudi government to push reforms.

- The elderly man states that the people will accept change as long as it does not infringe on the religon and the State. Reporter then asks what happens if you go against the government, to which the man says it is dangerous. The most important thing is to not infringe on the Saudi entity, other than that you are free.

Saudi Arabia puts its citizens first, tightly restricts immigration, and eschews globalist norms. Feels like it should be a darling nation in the eyes of the WR.

 

[Bald1]

Saudi Arabia puts its citizens first, tightly restricts immigration, and eschews globalist norms. Feels like it should be a darling nation in the eyes of the WR.

And there's nothing wrong with that. Hell, I think it's commendable. Or it would be if not for their influence throughout the Islamic world. And we're partly to blame for them having such influence.

 

[Islam Imamate]

And there's nothing wrong with that. Hell, I think it's commendable. Or it would be if not for their influence throughout the Islamic world. And we're partly to blame for them having such influence.

What happened to the silent treatment? Am I off ignore now?

Anyway, isn't Islam itself the cancer in your eyes? So Saudis or no Saudis the "cancer" remains. If anything the Saudi Religious establishment is vehemently against terrorism and has published multiple fatwas against it so aren't they arguably a good influence?

 

[Islam Imamate]

In all seriousness I think people way overestimate the extent that the Saudis buy influence. Yeah they fund religious institutions around the world but they probably spread their values further with their immigration policy where Muslims absorb their values while over there and then bring them back. I know of two girls who spent some years there and both came back wearing hijab.

If you want to beat the Saudis at that game then the West would have to establish a similar immigration system which is temporary and has no path to citizenship and then expand the scale of immigration to the West so you have more folks coming here, absorbing democratic values, and then taking those back home. But of course those with the most anxiety over Saudi influence are also those who are most against taking in more Muslim immigrants so I see that as unlikely.

 

[JSN]

Good watch so far.

The reason Islam is a problem in a nutshell:
"Our constitution is the Quran and can never be changed". Lena, about 24 minutes in.

Islam isn't just a religion. It's an all encompassing set of rules and wholly incompatible with western thought and life. As long as the oil flows and such primitives control Mecca this won't change.

Edit: The body language of the lawyer is pretty telling when he talks about Kashoggi. Lol.

One narrative is like to flip a bit is the idea that a modern type democracy is inherently western. It’s really about civil protections IMO which is far more fundamental than elected representatives or any arbitrary western values.

 

[Bald1]

What happened to the silent treatment? Am I off ignore now?

Anyway, isn't Islam itself the cancer in your eyes? So Saudis or no Saudis the "cancer" remains. If anything the Saudi Religious establishment is vehemently against terrorism and has published multiple fatwas against it so aren't they arguably a good influence?

You stuck in a time loop? We've had plenty of exchanges since me trying to ignore you when it comes to this topic.

Islam sucks. But from their perspective so does liberalism and secularism, right? Don't care how people live their lives as long as they don't dictate to others. And SA are building extremist mosques world wide. Terrorism has never been my primary concern when it comes to Islam. My issue is the spread of the most conservative way of life we currently see.

 

[Islam Imamate]

You stuck in a time loop? We've had plenty of exchanges since me trying to ignore you when it comes to this topic.

Islam sucks. But from their perspective so does liberalism and secularism, right? Don't care how people live their lives as long as they don't dictate to others. And SA are building extremist mosques world wide. Terrorism has never been my primary concern when it comes to Islam. My issue is the spread of the most conservative way of life we currently see.

You say this but then shortly after say that your issue is with their way of life. No one is forced to go to a Saudi funded mosque so what is the issue? Who is and isn't allowed to try and spread their way of life?

 

[Bald1]

You say this but then shortly after say that your issue is with their way of life. No one is forced to go to a Saudi funded mosque so what is the issue? Who is and isn't allowed to try and spread their way of life?

Those who won't allow us to spread our way of life. If a relationship isn't reciprocal it's shite, right?

 

[Islam Imamate]

Those who won't allow us to spread our way of life. If a relationship isn't reciprocal it's shite, right?

Would you really be okay with Saudi funded mosques if the Saudis allowed churches to be built over there? Aren't you against the niqab which is a personal expression that bothers no one? Let's be honest here, every society has its norms and traditions which they're gonna guard to some extent.

 

[MicroBrew]

In all seriousness I think people way overestimate the extent that the Saudis buy influence. Yeah they fund religious institutions around the world but they probably spread their values further with their immigration policy where Muslims absorb their values while over there and then bring them back. I know of two girls who spent some years there and both came back wearing hijab.

If you want to beat the Saudis at that game then the West would have to establish a similar immigration system which is temporary and has no path to citizenship and then expand the scale of immigration to the West so you have more folks coming here, absorbing democratic values, and then taking those back home. But of course those with the most anxiety over Saudi influence are also those who are most against taking in more Muslim immigrants so I see that as unlikely.

Won't work in the West because we don't have any religous pilgrimmage sites, and even if we did it wouldn't attract Muslims. You could argue that Western ideals can be spread via foreign college students studying here and returning, but that's been going on for decades. The US has been generous in accepting foreign students. Religous identity and zeal is a lot more impactfull to a college education liberalising a person.

 

[Bald1]

Would you really be okay with Saudi funded mosques if the Saudis allowed churches to be built over there? Aren't you against the niqab which is a personal expression that bothers no one? Let's be honest here, every society has its norms and traditions which they're gonna guard to some extent.

Yes. I'm big on tit for tat. Right now we only have half of that equation and you've never heard me take exception to Islam in the new world. I don't like it, but it belongs as much as any other ideology.