Tech Gaming Hardware discussion (& Hardware Sales) thread

[My Spot]

My god the rest of 2021? Insane. I’m so glad I got my 3080 when I did. It was already bad then but has only gotten worse.

It got pretty bad in the spring of 2018 but things got back to normal (for the most part) that fall. This looks to be far worse thanks to Covid and PS5/XB4 demand.

 

[GtehMVP]

It got pretty bad in the spring of 2018 but things got back to normal (for the most part) that fall. This looks to be far worse thanks to Covid and PS5/XB4 demand.

Yeah, it's a perfect storm

I was thinking of buying prebuilt with Dell. They have 3080's advertised (is it true? @Madmick ), but at this point I'm either going to wait for the rumoured 3080ti, or the next gen

 

[Madmick]

Yeah, it's a perfect storm

I was thinking of buying prebuilt with Dell. They have 3080's advertised (is it true? @Madmick ), but at this point I'm either going to wait for the rumoured 3080ti, or the next gen

Of course they have 3080's. The manufacturers like Dell get first dibs. Always have. Even CyberpowerPC and iBuypower are now granted this preferential, earlier supply access. That's why so many were customizing their builds; although based on my consumption of anecdotally reported experiences across the internet, however unreliable that may be, one is definitely better off buying a prebuilt from CPPC or IBP, too, rather than ordering a custom assembly. That's understandable. It's always easier to assemble the same thing many times rather than many different things once.

Dell's major lines for gaming desktops are the Alienware (luxury) and G-series (budget/mainstream).
https://www.dell.com/en-us/shop/gaming-and-games/sc/game-desktops

 

[GtehMVP]

Of course they have 3080's. The manufacturers like Dell get first dibs. Always have. Even CyberpowerPC and iBuypower are now granted this preferential, earlier supply access. That's why so many were customizing their builds; although based on my consumption of anecdotally reported experiences across the internet, however unreliable that may be, one is definitely better off buying a prebuilt from CPPC or IBP, too, rather than ordering a custom assembly. That's understandable. It's always easier to assemble the same thing many times rather than many different things once.

Dell's major lines for gaming desktops are the Alienware (luxury) and G-series (budget/mainstream).
https://www.dell.com/en-us/shop/gaming-and-games/sc/game-desktops

Thanks brother. I haven't dealt with Dell (good experience), or bought a pre-built system, since the early 2000's. I've since only bought parts to upgrade or assemble a new system (with help).

Anything with a 3080 at Dell is Alienware, with a case I hate the look of. I'm sure being Alienware the price is inflated too

I'll look into CPPC and IBP. I need a full upgrade so prebuilt seems like my best choice unless i want to wait a year.

 

[Madmick]

Heads up, gents. A great combo sale from Newegg you won't catch on BPCS. Today only. This is a phenomenal starting block for anyone considering a new build right now.

($368) i5-10600K + Gigabyte Z590 UD ATX Motherboard + Death Stranding (Epic Games code)
https://www.newegg.com/Product/ComboDealDetails?sdtid=15006250&ItemList=Combo.4243332&nm_mc

For some reason, the Gigabyte Z590 UD still isn't showing up on PCPP-- only the WiFi variant (UD AC). They're otherwise identical. The "UD" is Gigabyte's entry line, but of course, this is a Z590 motherboard. Here are the major specifications via the manufacturer:
https://www.gigabyte.com/Motherboard/Z590-UD-rev-10#kf
Concerning more advanced considerations, while the UD line has been lackluster for other chipsets, for example the Z490 rendition, which was awful, this one is really good. The VRM gets a "B" tiering from unofficial builder enthusiasts online for the VRM (only A, S, and S+ are above this). It boasts a 12+1 phase design with a Vishay SiC651A (50A) vCore MOSFET & Vishay SiC649A (60A) UNCORE MOSFET. The speculated peak ceiling current tolerance is 120A. It is overall the best performer among budget Z590 boards:
https://www.anandtech.com/show/16347/the-intel-z590-overview/38
Note: the clickbait thumbnail is directed at ASRock whose Phantom 4 failed the basic thermal test outright.


The lone disappointment of this pairing is that the first m.2 slot, the PCIe 4.0 x4 one, will be disabled because the 10600K isn't a Rocket Lake chip. That's true for all Z590 motherboards. However, the board has two other m.2 slots, and the #2 slot will work at PCIe 3.0x4 speeds since the first m.2 slot won't be populated. While it's disappointing Intel didn't engineer it so that the first slot simply downclocks with a Comet Lake CPU, letting you operate three m.2 drives, practically speaking, I don't think this matters, because PCIe 4.0 NVMe SSDs are still overpriced, and any budget build likely won't boast 3x NVMe SSDs, anyway. Besides, 2 x m.2 slots is the most common number among $150-$200 B560 motherboards (or B550/X570 motherboards on the AMD side).

Otherwise, apart from the usual bells and whistles, yada yada, perhaps the most attractive feature of this board are the 2 x Thunderbolt AIC connectors.

Gigabyte was coy with MSRP quotes at launch like everyone else because they wanted to wait and see how much they could gouge gamers for, but the initial release at Microcenter indicates a $189 and $209 intended MSRP for it and the WiFi variant, respectively. Thanks to a "sale" quote lasting for the next 17 hours, serendipitously coinciding with this combo deal, Newegg has it priced at this MSRP before the combo discount.

Right off the bat this is favorable start in today's motherboard market. Just getting a high-end ATX board at its intended MSRP is a win, and at this price Newegg matches Amazon/B&H/Microcenter as the best currently available from any reseller on the market. There's no Z590 ATX MoBo that is cheaper, new, and as you can see from the HUB video above, the only competitors that are equally priced are significantly inferior in thermal performance except for the MSI Z490-A. That board for $190 and the MSI B560 MAG Torpedo for $170 via Wal-Mart are the only other ATX options worth mentioning in the same sentence below $200 that I can find.

Consequently, this means the price of the i5-10600K is effectively $223 - $45 = $178.

The free digital copy of Death Stranding (for Epic Games) is just the icing on the cake. After all, this game is still $60 on Steam and Epic alike, and the current low anywhere is $33.

*Edit* Upon further reflection, I noticed the new value king CPU i5-11400 is still available for $189 from B&H (they also have the iGPU-less 11400F for $175). This CPU beats up the 10600K in terms or raw editing processing power. More recent benchmarks also show the frametime issue in games is almost entirely resolved, and it appears to to trade blows with the 10600K in gaming, though perhaps winning the preponderance of races, especially the 0.1% and 1% lows, I noticed. With this CPU you could use all three m.2 slots, and you'd also net the Thunderbolt 4.0 support + A.I. improvements. Since the Gigabyte Z590 UD is available for $189 discretely via Amazon, it's difficult to accept the free copy of Death Stranding as preferable given the price difference.

The i5-10400F for $141 from Staples I highlighted days ago with the MSI MAG B560 Torpedo for $170 I mentioned above is the more sensible among thriftier alternatives. Another motherboard to keep your eyes peeled for is the ASRock B560 Steel Legend which at its initial intended MSRP of $140 was underpriced-- can't get that anymore; sells for $180 even at Microcenter. The lesser Asus PRIME B560-Plus for $120 is even more frugal, and ought to prove more obtainable at this price, though it went on back order as of several days ago.

 

[KaNesDeath]

https://www.theverge.com/2021/5/7/2...heiser-consumer-business-headphones-soundbars

 

[PEB]

My eyes started watering as soon as my garage is done I am setting it up to do wood and metal fab I hope.



The walnut chair is only 320 bucks but flax leather. I don't know about the cooling on the computer case and potential fire issues these would need to be addressed. Oh in another video he shows how to make the speakers and the audio issues.

This looks retro boss.
https://www.eurway.com/concord-offi...wKDihc7soFlXkxy0DnAM5nTepd9w3IVrxLj5eb2_GAXQg

 

[Madmick]

Shortage of Semiconductors Affecting Switch Console, Nintendo President Says
Sony Now Expecting PS5 Shortages to Continue Into Next Year
It's undoubtedly the same for the Xbox Series X & S, but the demand for those isn't as high, so Microsoft isn't as squeezed with keeping up. NVIDIA and AMD have already said they don't expect their extreme PC-market GPU shortage to end until 2022, and NVIDIA has said they believe the semiconductor shortage will last until 2023. Even the NVIDIA Shield Pro revision remains delayed when it was supposed to be release nearly a year ago (the base Shield uses the same chipset as the Switch, so that isn't surprising).

Meanwhile, the CPU market also remains poor. The Rocket Lake chips are selling above MSRP, and the price on any Zen processors (not just Zen 3) are terrible below the 5800X. That's been a lone silver lining for enthusiast gamers. There's been a stream of highly attractive sales of 5800X and 5900X processors, lately. The most attractive pricing remains on the aging Intel Comet Lake CPUs, but an apparent recent mass restocking of B450/B550/X570 motherboards has offset that a bit, and continues to keep the lesser Zen 3 processors more competitive. On the whole, though, the CPU and motherboard market is unfavorable to buyers. It's not the nightmare the GPU market is, but it's bad.

And every headline in the past 4 months indicates it won't get better for a long, long time.

 

[rob mafia]

and the price on any Zen processors (not just Zen 3) are terrible below the 5800X

i'm routinely seeing them all for msrp (and the 5800x for under msrp), at least the zen3s. i don't pay attention to the older ones, though. the 5600x was on amazon, newegg, antonline, etc for $299 earlier today.

the gpu shit seems weird. nvidia's been shipping less to the retailers that track them (ie: mindfactory), amd's been shipping a bit more than last month... but they're all 6700xt/6900xt. the 6800s and 6800xts just don't seem to exist. which may mean that the 6900xt yields are nearly perfect, but it's weird.

tsmc is opening up more 6nm and i know amd is increasing their wafers throughout the year on 7nm (and i guess 6nm now), so supply should be a little better.... maybe.

 

[Law Talkin’ Guy]

Shortage of Semiconductors Affecting Switch Console, Nintendo President Says
Sony Now Expecting PS5 Shortages to Continue Into Next Year
It's undoubtedly the same for the Xbox Series X & S, but the demand for those isn't as high, so Microsoft isn't as squeezed with keeping up. NVIDIA and AMD have already said they don't expect their extreme PC-market GPU shortage to end until 2022, and NVIDIA has said they believe the semiconductor shortage will last until 2023. Even the NVIDIA Shield Pro revision remains delayed when it was supposed to be release nearly a year ago (the base Shield uses the same chipset as the Switch, so that isn't surprising).

Meanwhile, the CPU market also remains poor. The Rocket Lake chips are selling above MSRP, and the price on any Zen processors (not just Zen 3) are terrible below the 5800X. That's been a lone silver lining for enthusiast gamers. There's been a stream of highly attractive sales of 5800X and 5900X processors, lately. The most attractive pricing remains on the aging Intel Comet Lake CPUs, but an apparent recent mass restocking of B450/B550/X570 motherboards has offset that a bit, and continues to keep the lesser Zen 3 processors more competitive. On the whole, though, the CPU and motherboard market is unfavorable to buyers. It's not the nightmare the GPU market is, but it's bad.

And every headline in the past 4 months indicates it won't get better for a long, long time.

Being able to score a PS5 on release, and a Series X two months later, in the current market makes me feel like I’m Gollum or something.

 

[Madmick]

The 5600X isn't the only Zen processor below the 5800X-- there are dozens. The pricing is awful across the board. To offer a general snapshot of that truth, consider that currently the cheapest Zen 2 or Zen 3 processor listed on PCPP is the R3-3100 for $228!! Per the 5600X, in particular, the $300 MSRP is no longer an attractive purchase point even when it is available which hasn't been true for at least a few weeks out of the past couple months. It was priced high at launch. It's already overpriced.

This is due to the advent of the 11400, and the drop in pricing of key, older Comet Lake competitors. Contributing to this are the disruptive changes to Intel budget motherboards I've mentioned accompanying steady sales of the 10400F/10400 at $140-$150, the i5-10600KF for $200, and the 11400F/11400 at $175-$190. Staying abreast of chatter on Reddit one might notice the global gaming community is prickled, and souring towards AMD. That's because in Europe, for example, the i5-10400 is less than half the price of the 5600X in many markets, and 11400F is just slightly more than half.

Spoiler: Anyone who pays a 70%+ $$$ premium for >10% performance when not buying the best is stupid-- the 5800X is for the rich

The 5600X only carries a 5.3% 3DMark Time Spy advantage when using fast RAM.







Device Labs YouTube comparison

Intel Core i5-11400F Review: The New Value Champ
5600X = +11.7% fps avg & +8.2% fps lows (pure vanilla setups for both processors which is very weak for the 11400F, but only barely off the maximum for the 5600X)

Bear in mind the 5600X only gained 0.4% via OC, so the 5600X's +8.1% performance against the ceiling power limit setting of the Gear 2 mode (not a technical overclock) is still just 8.5% if nitpicking setup impact. This iterates the truth that either OC or PBO for the 5600X gains very little (PBO is better)-- not Zen 3's strength.

Notice using the automated Z590 motherboard optimization settings the 11400 beat the stock 5600X in Guru3D's game benchmark suite:

5600X wins by 11.0% on Tom's Hardware across their entire benchmark suite

More:
https://www.overclock3d.net/reviews..._i5_11400f_and_asus_b560_plus_prime_review/14

The realization has even dawned on AMD's own sub:



AMD needs to stop dragging its ass and get a Zen 3 budget CPU out there. They're not interested because they're making money. They're complacent like Intel once was, and offering an inferior product value.

 

[rob mafia]

The 5600X isn't the only Zen processor below the 5800X

it's the only zen3 currently lower.

AMD needs to stop dragging its ass and get a Zen 3 budget CPU out there.

they have plans for it. i think the lack of them is a testament to tsmc's yields. there seem to be little to no low-binned chips. why gimp a $300+ cpu to sell for less?

 

[Madmick]

"Zen processors" aren't limited to Zen 3.


I went out of my way twice to make that clear including specifically highlighting the lack of budget Zen 3 processors. Historically AMD has offered wonderful values on the previous generation. The 1600AF and the 2600 are prime examples, and those were just the tip of the iceberg. There was a time when they owned every price point below $200. It was a blowout that dizzied everyone because Intel had dominated for so long. Well, today the 5600X is overpriced bullshit. Makes as much sense as the old X series Intel processors. AMD better get something out quick because right now they don't win a single price point below $250. How quickly things change.

 

[rob mafia]

"Zen processors" aren't limited to Zen 3.

i'm aware. i said i was limiting this to zen 3.

I went out of my way twice to make that clear including specifically highlighting the lack of budget Zen 3 processors. Historically AMD has offered wonderful values on the previous generation. The 1600AF and the 2600 are prime examples, and those were just the tip of the iceberg. There was a time when they owned every price point below $200. It was a blowout that dizzied everyone because Intel had dominated for so long. Well, today the 5600X is overpriced bullshit. Makes as much sense as the old X series Intel processors. AMD better get something out quick because right now they don't win a single price point below $250. How quickly things change.

ok, but you also said this:

Rubbish.

AMD all these years set a standard of charging what they could based on what they were able to offer. It's not like they set prices as low as they did out of a sense of charity to mankind. It's simply the price their CPUs commanded. They were desperately clawing for sales. That's why even at their much lower prices they still only had a ~10% desktop share four years ago, and still just 20% today after three years of Ryzen. That's probably going to double or triple by the end of 2021. Intel's distribution networks, subcontracting, and partnering is profoundly strong, so it may take a few years holding this dominance for AMD to achieve a market majority, but in spite of the price hikes, that's where they're headed...because they earned it.

They earned these prices.

and you were previously complaining that the 5600x was unobtanium. if it was overpriced, it didn't seem to be a problem.


they do have more/cheaper models coming out, but they're at least initially all going to builders.


edit: and now i'm seeing the 5600x for $280

 

[WhiteMousse]

"Zen processors" aren't limited to Zen 3.


I went out of my way twice to make that clear including specifically highlighting the lack of budget Zen 3 processors. Historically AMD has offered wonderful values on the previous generation. The 1600AF and the 2600 are prime examples, and those were just the tip of the iceberg. There was a time when they owned every price point below $200. It was a blowout that dizzied everyone because Intel had dominated for so long. Well, today the 5600X is overpriced bullshit. Makes as much sense as the old X series Intel processors. AMD better get something out quick because right now they don't win a single price point below $250. How quickly things change.

If I understand you correctly-- you DO recommend the 5800X. Is the reason for the disapproval for the 5600X, just a matter of price for power?

 

[Madmick]

If I understand you correctly-- you DO recommend the 5800X. Is the reason for the disapproval for the 5600X, just a matter of price for power?

Yeah, you got it.

Because there are two choices, here. You either want (1) to get the most for your money, or (2) to get the best performance. AMD doesn't offer #1 at any price point below the 5800X. They have #2 on lockdown. Not only is the i5-11400F $175, but just yesterday the 10600KF hit a flash sale of $160 at Staples. The other advantages of Zen 3, such as its superior thermal performance, or lower power draws, are not enough to compensate for the 5600X's terrible relative price-- not even close. Intel also neutered AMD's budget motherboard advantages.

Meanwhile, the 5800X is the obvious choice for gamers who want the best, and the 5900X/5950X are the obvious choices for gamers who want the best with yet more raw processing power (for editing or some other reason). Last month, Microcenter hiked the price of the 5600X, twice, and it has lacked enough in availability during this stretch that it still gets /buildapcsales posts with high upvotes when it's available at MSRP. BAPCS does not flag MSRP unless a component is highly in demand, and that MSRP isn't readily obtainable without interruption (example 1; example 2). Because, obviously, if it was, these posts would be redundant. Yet, even at $299, as I documented, it's a terrible value. It's a phenomenal processor otherwise. Zen 3 is the leading high-performance PC CPU architecture in the world.

 

[My Spot]

Shit, I didn't even know Rocket Lake CPUs were out. Shame on me.
And the 11600K unseated the 5600X on Tom's Hardware.

 

[Madmick]

And the 11600K unseated the 5600X on Tom's Hardware.

Not surprising. If they were a bit more on the ball this would have been true starting in February. Price trackers show the non-sale pricing on the 10600K (and 10600KF) has been $215-$230 since late January. There were frequent sales in the months prior to that on those processors at even better prices, as low as $190, and also the 10700/10700K. The 5600X was even less obtainable at the time.

I've been talking about this since last December.

 

[PEB]

HTC answer to Facebook Quest 2 an 1300 dollar very high resolution stand alone headset really HTC? Your doing this all wrong even at 800 dollars you would sell them but 1,300 seriously with similar slightly better then Quest 2 specs.

 

[jefferz]

HTC answer to Facebook Quest 2 an 1300 dollar very high resolution stand alone headset really HTC? Your doing this all wrong even at 800 dollars you would sell them but 1,300 seriously with similar slightly better then Quest 2 specs.

Did you see Ian is going to be interviewing Jim Keller?!