News Gegard Mousasi to defend title vs. John Salter at Bellator 264, Aug. 13

[TITS]

Will be a lot closer than the Salter fight. The same game plan, though.

Mousasi looked old and stiff, and moved like the Mummy.

 

[CorninginChristianburg]

Marvin throws ground and pound when you're against the fence whereas Salter will kind of forlornly hold onto your hips in an effort to flatten you out.

There were some things in the fight that actually made me think Marvin wouldn't do great. And a lot of it is recency bias. On the one hand John is not explosive so maybe it wouldn't hold true in other cases with more explosive athletes, but Gegard, as I expected, did a decent job stuffing single shots, and it took clever reshots from Salter to get him to the ground, I can remember exactly which but like low picks and trips.

Vettori is not a wrestler. Marvin Vettori has like two takedowns, the double leg, the blast double, maybe something approaching an ankle pick, he has terrible takedown variety and he's very bad at transitioning from one takedown to another or reshooting. I'm sure he's pulled off other stuff before, but I'd say 90% of his takedowns are the aforementioned. Against guys who can't even defend a single shot that's fine. But against guys who can defend a single shot he often just ends up pressing them against the fence not really knowing what to do. Marvin lacks a lot in technical skill that other fighters have, both in striking and in wrestling, his jiu jitsu is probably his strongest skill point.

That said, I mean comparing him to Salter is absolutely ridiculous. Salter himself admitted that, especially as he gets older, he cannot gain weight after a cut like other fighters. So he may have walked into the ring under 190 pounds against Gegard. He is very small. And call it what it is, he is very physically weak. If you look at Bellator's MW roster, not a single fighter on the roster would lift less than Salter in the gym. And no middleweights in the UFC come to mind who would be weaker than Salter either. Meanwhile Marvin is one of the physically strongest Middleweights in the world. On fight night against Karl Roberson he weighed in at 211 pounds. He has immense physical explosiveness and pressure. Salter was never a great athlete, he was always a greater technician, but now at 36 he has no gas tank. He got this title fight essentially off of beating Costello Van Steenis, as in he clutched Van Steenis for 8 minutes, got his ass whooped for 7 minutes, and won by round scoring. Marvin Vettori has cardio for days, he's has fought 3 25 minute fights, and while his level of effectiveness due to his lack of technique may vary, he's never gassed or come close to gassing. And Vettori is one of the most durable fighters in the sport. I said Austin Vanderford is a bigger stronger more explosive faster more durable better cardio version of Salter, the thing is Vanderford is still a converted WW. He's been at MW for a little while but he's still not very big for the division, he's maybe 40th-45th percentile in terms of size. Marvin is one of the biggest toughest guys in the division. And Salter is one of the smallest weakest guys in the division with terrible cardio. And I said all of this before the recent fight, none of this is new information. I have a tremendous amount of respect for Salter, because he consistently outperforms what he should be able to do with his lack of physical traits due to his incredible jiu jitsu technique and fight knowledge. But even that "outperformance" at this age is beating Andrew Kapel, or Chidi Njokuani, or Costello Van Steenis, journeymen strikers with no grappling background or notable grappling skills. I truly believe he will be an elite coach someday for younger fighters. But people blowing smoke up Salter's ass really did not give a fuck who he was 6 months ago before the fight with Mousasi was announced, suddenly Mousasi is scheduled to fight him and he becomes an all time great? Not how that works.

If Vettori gets Gegard to the ground, Gegard is either going to take damage, or he is going to stay on the ground for the entire round. If Vettori doesn't do much damage, and prioritizes holding Gegard down as opposed to hitting him, Gegard is not going to move. If Vettori prioritizes landing shots, Gegard may be able to escape during the gaps in pressure, but he will take shots. And Vettori is also not going to get tired, so he can do that for 5 rounds without gassing. Certainly he can do that for at least 3 rounds to win by round scoring, and Vettori has never been finished so if he does win 3 rounds on the cards he likely wins the fight. The big question mark, I think, for Vettori is whether he would wrestle hard or smart. If he just wrestles hard I think Gegard can stuff the head, and Vettori just tends to sit in that position doing nothing, in fact taking damage from elbows. But if he mixes it up a bit, does some different takedowns and gets Gegard to the ground he wins the fight.

 

[CorninginChristianburg]

Evidently there was a lot of controversy with the Gwerder-Bestaev decision. I thought it was fine. Bestaev landed cleaner in the second than Gwerder did, he turned and popped the head a number of times and I think stumbled him at one point. Gwerder landed harder but most of his shots hit the guard of Bestaev. Gwerder got a takedown at the very end but both had little control time and did nothing with the position. There could be an argument for Gwerder too but in a close fight I don't get offended if judges go either way, and all judges went with Bestaev so there's some unanimity there. Of course if you listened to the commentary you would have thought that Gwerder was dominating but watch the fight...

Then Gwerder got knocked down twice in the 3rd. He already had welts on his face, on on the upper right forehead and one on the lower left cheek, and then the middle of his face got busted wide open by the knockdowns at the start of the third, tremendous leakage. This sport has a lot of controversial decisions, fights where the guy who wins is busted up and the guy who loses is clean as a windshield. Fights like the TJ/Cory fight. This was the opposite of that, the guy who won was clean as a windshield, the guy who lost had cuts and bruises up and down his face. It kinda makes sense, feels like that's how it should be.

 

[Feniamin]

If anyone cares, Koreshkov said that next fight is gonna be last on his contract.

 

[Hellowhosthat]

If anyone cares, Koreshkov said that next fight is gonna be last on his contract.

I care, I'd like to see Koreshkov try a run in the UFC, I still think he can make an impact there.

 

[careto]

If anyone cares, Koreshkov said that next fight is gonna be last on his contract.

Any indication of what his plans are?

 

[GueseGuy]

I care, I'd like to see Koreshkov try a run in the UFC, I still think he can make an impact there.

Same. Looked solid Friday night albeit a weak but game opponent. Only question is will UFC sign him?

 

[GueseGuy]

Had a few casuals who were pre-gaming with my roommate watching the Magomedov-Stots fight and they loved it. One of the best fights of the year for me so far. That was some really high level mma. Don't know what the oddsmakers were thinking with the line. Anyhow, I'm glad Stots won because I think Magomedov felt he was going to run through the division easy. Think this sends a message that BW is a tough ass division in Bellator. Imagine being James Gallagher thinking you can compete with these guys lol.

 

[Franklin U.]

There were some things in the fight that actually made me think Marvin wouldn't do great. And a lot of it is recency bias. On the one hand John is not explosive so maybe it wouldn't hold true in other cases with more explosive athletes, but Gegard, as I expected, did a decent job stuffing single shots, and it took clever reshots from Salter to get him to the ground, I can remember exactly which but like low picks and trips.

Vettori is not a wrestler. Marvin Vettori has like two takedowns, the double leg, the blast double, maybe something approaching an ankle pick, he has terrible takedown variety and he's very bad at transitioning from one takedown to another or reshooting. I'm sure he's pulled off other stuff before, but I'd say 90% of his takedowns are the aforementioned. Against guys who can't even defend a single shot that's fine. But against guys who can defend a single shot he often just ends up pressing them against the fence not really knowing what to do. Marvin lacks a lot in technical skill that other fighters have, both in striking and in wrestling, his jiu jitsu is probably his strongest skill point.

That said, I mean comparing him to Salter is absolutely ridiculous. Salter himself admitted that, especially as he gets older, he cannot gain weight after a cut like other fighters. So he may have walked into the ring under 190 pounds against Gegard. He is very small. And call it what it is, he is very physically weak. If you look at Bellator's MW roster, not a single fighter on the roster would lift less than Salter in the gym. And no middleweights in the UFC come to mind who would be weaker than Salter either. Meanwhile Marvin is one of the physically strongest Middleweights in the world. On fight night against Karl Roberson he weighed in at 211 pounds. He has immense physical explosiveness and pressure. Salter was never a great athlete, he was always a greater technician, but now at 36 he has no gas tank. He got this title fight essentially off of beating Costello Van Steenis, as in he clutched Van Steenis for 8 minutes, got his ass whooped for 7 minutes, and won by round scoring. Marvin Vettori has cardio for days, he's has fought 3 25 minute fights, and while his level of effectiveness due to his lack of technique may vary, he's never gassed or come close to gassing. And Vettori is one of the most durable fighters in the sport. I said Austin Vanderford is a bigger stronger more explosive faster more durable better cardio version of Salter, the thing is Vanderford is still a converted WW. He's been at MW for a little while but he's still not very big for the division, he's maybe 40th-45th percentile in terms of size. Marvin is one of the biggest toughest guys in the division. And Salter is one of the smallest weakest guys in the division with terrible cardio. And I said all of this before the recent fight, none of this is new information. I have a tremendous amount of respect for Salter, because he consistently outperforms what he should be able to do with his lack of physical traits due to his incredible jiu jitsu technique and fight knowledge. But even that "outperformance" at this age is beating Andrew Kapel, or Chidi Njokuani, or Costello Van Steenis, journeymen strikers with no grappling background or notable grappling skills. I truly believe he will be an elite coach someday for younger fighters. But people blowing smoke up Salter's ass really did not give a fuck who he was 6 months ago before the fight with Mousasi was announced, suddenly Mousasi is scheduled to fight him and he becomes an all time great? Not how that works.

If Vettori gets Gegard to the ground, Gegard is either going to take damage, or he is going to stay on the ground for the entire round. If Vettori doesn't do much damage, and prioritizes holding Gegard down as opposed to hitting him, Gegard is not going to move. If Vettori prioritizes landing shots, Gegard may be able to escape during the gaps in pressure, but he will take shots. And Vettori is also not going to get tired, so he can do that for 5 rounds without gassing. Certainly he can do that for at least 3 rounds to win by round scoring, and Vettori has never been finished so if he does win 3 rounds on the cards he likely wins the fight. The big question mark, I think, for Vettori is whether he would wrestle hard or smart. If he just wrestles hard I think Gegard can stuff the head, and Vettori just tends to sit in that position doing nothing, in fact taking damage from elbows. But if he mixes it up a bit, does some different takedowns and gets Gegard to the ground he wins the fight.

Mousasi - 240
Vettori +200

..maybe MAYBE A tad less due to UFC bias.

Mousasi finishes marvin by stoppage . Gegard still one of the top 3 middles in world and who knows where in pecking order of 3.

What has marvin exactly done. I appreciate your wordy post but if u think vettori tskes down mousasi and either keeps him there or puts this damage on him , lol , please.

The BMMA middle division isnt impressive by any means but outside izz& rob - neither is todays UFC.

Gegards time will come ( as he said hinself) where he wont be a top middle in world but at 36, still going strong....which is crazy.

His post presser looks the same ( his physical features ) as it did before he hit 30. It doesnt even make sense.

 

[Franklin U.]

There were some things in the fight that actually made me think Marvin wouldn't do great. And a lot of it is recency bias. On the one hand John is not explosive so maybe it wouldn't hold true in other cases with more explosive athletes, but Gegard, as I expected, did a decent job stuffing single shots, and it took clever reshots from Salter to get him to the ground, I can remember exactly which but like low picks and trips.

Vettori is not a wrestler. Marvin Vettori has like two takedowns, the double leg, the blast double, maybe something approaching an ankle pick, he has terrible takedown variety and he's very bad at transitioning from one takedown to another or reshooting. I'm sure he's pulled off other stuff before, but I'd say 90% of his takedowns are the aforementioned. Against guys who can't even defend a single shot that's fine. But against guys who can defend a single shot he often just ends up pressing them against the fence not really knowing what to do. Marvin lacks a lot in technical skill that other fighters have, both in striking and in wrestling, his jiu jitsu is probably his strongest skill point.

That said, I mean comparing him to Salter is absolutely ridiculous. Salter himself admitted that, especially as he gets older, he cannot gain weight after a cut like other fighters. So he may have walked into the ring under 190 pounds against Gegard. He is very small. And call it what it is, he is very physically weak. If you look at Bellator's MW roster, not a single fighter on the roster would lift less than Salter in the gym. And no middleweights in the UFC come to mind who would be weaker than Salter either. Meanwhile Marvin is one of the physically strongest Middleweights in the world. On fight night against Karl Roberson he weighed in at 211 pounds. He has immense physical explosiveness and pressure. Salter was never a great athlete, he was always a greater technician, but now at 36 he has no gas tank. He got this title fight essentially off of beating Costello Van Steenis, as in he clutched Van Steenis for 8 minutes, got his ass whooped for 7 minutes, and won by round scoring. Marvin Vettori has cardio for days, he's has fought 3 25 minute fights, and while his level of effectiveness due to his lack of technique may vary, he's never gassed or come close to gassing. And Vettori is one of the most durable fighters in the sport. I said Austin Vanderford is a bigger stronger more explosive faster more durable better cardio version of Salter, the thing is Vanderford is still a converted WW. He's been at MW for a little while but he's still not very big for the division, he's maybe 40th-45th percentile in terms of size. Marvin is one of the biggest toughest guys in the division. And Salter is one of the smallest weakest guys in the division with terrible cardio. And I said all of this before the recent fight, none of this is new information. I have a tremendous amount of respect for Salter, because he consistently outperforms what he should be able to do with his lack of physical traits due to his incredible jiu jitsu technique and fight knowledge. But even that "outperformance" at this age is beating Andrew Kapel, or Chidi Njokuani, or Costello Van Steenis, journeymen strikers with no grappling background or notable grappling skills. I truly believe he will be an elite coach someday for younger fighters. But people blowing smoke up Salter's ass really did not give a fuck who he was 6 months ago before the fight with Mousasi was announced, suddenly Mousasi is scheduled to fight him and he becomes an all time great? Not how that works.

If Vettori gets Gegard to the ground, Gegard is either going to take damage, or he is going to stay on the ground for the entire round. If Vettori doesn't do much damage, and prioritizes holding Gegard down as opposed to hitting him, Gegard is not going to move. If Vettori prioritizes landing shots, Gegard may be able to escape during the gaps in pressure, but he will take shots. And Vettori is also not going to get tired, so he can do that for 5 rounds without gassing. Certainly he can do that for at least 3 rounds to win by round scoring, and Vettori has never been finished so if he does win 3 rounds on the cards he likely wins the fight. The big question mark, I think, for Vettori is whether he would wrestle hard or smart. If he just wrestles hard I think Gegard can stuff the head, and Vettori just tends to sit in that position doing nothing, in fact taking damage from elbows. But if he mixes it up a bit, does some different takedowns and gets Gegard to the ground he wins the fight.

I also know little about mr. Vanzant. Hes undefeated but hasnt had much fights. On paper, Salter " should" be the tougher fight because hes a southpaw and his right hand is actually his dominant hand. This makes the entrance of Gegards striking a bit tricky but he had no respect for Salters striking in general.

Vanderford much quicker from what I have seen. I really cant say too much more except Mousasi flattens the guys that have taken vanderford to a decision.

Gegard continues to be in a lose lose situation in BMMA so the casuals just wont give mousasi credit . I thought he beat Lovato which would make him 12 out of 12 spanning back to UFC where he flattened all 7 men on his final 8 fight contract.

 

[Hellowhosthat]

Same. Looked solid Friday night albeit a weak but game opponent. Only question is will UFC sign him?

I think they would personally. He has a bit of name value, he's a former Bellator champ too.

 

[Hellowhosthat]

Mousasi - 240
Vettori +200

..maybe MAYBE A tad less due to UFC bias.

Mousasi finishes marvin by stoppage . Gegard still one of the top 3 middles in world and who knows where in pecking order of 3.

What has marvin exactly done. I appreciate your wordy post but if u think vettori tskes down mousasi and either keeps him there or puts this damage on him , lol , please.

The BMMA middle division isnt impressive by any means but outside izz& rob - neither is todays UFC.

Gegards time will come ( as he said hinself) where he wont be a top middle in world but at 36, still going strong....which is crazy.

His post presser looks the same ( his physical features ) as it did before he hit 30. It doesnt even make sense.

If Gegard can get it done I highly, highly doubt he finishes him. Marvin has never been even close to being finished.

 

[GueseGuy]

I also know little about mr. Vanzant. Hes undefeated but hasnt had much fights. On paper, Salter " should" be the tougher fight because hes a southpaw and his right hand is actually his dominant hand. This makes the entrance of Gegards striking a bit tricky but he had no respect for Salters striking in general.

Vanderford much quicker from what I have seen. I really cant say too much more except Mousasi flattens the guys that have taken vanderford to a decision.

Gegard continues to be in a lose lose situation in BMMA so the casuals just wont give mousasi credit . I thought he beat Lovato which would make him 12 out of 12 spanning back to UFC where he flattened all 7 men on his final 8 fight contract.

We really haven’t seen enough from Vanderford to really make a clean assessment I feel. Going from Fabian Edwards in a 3 rounder to a 5 rounder vs Mousasi is a big step up. I really don’t know what to expect.

 

[Franklin U.]

If Gegard can get it done I highly, highly doubt he finishes him. Marvin has never been even close to being finished.

Hes 27 with what ? 20 fights under his belt. Give it time. Mousasi would beat Marvin- no doubt in my mind ( until moose hits 38 ...msybe- at this point only God knows but his time will come, of course).
That's my opinion and I'd like to believe its without any personal bias. If he doesn't finish him then I see a fairly easy decision.

Listen , I still dont know how good Israel Adesanya is. His stand up is awesome....on every count. However , if the " Italian dream" is the best style on the UFC roster to beat Adesanya then Israel will be in for a long reign. I'll be rooting for Whitaker but I dont see him getting Israel to ground so this could be a rinse & repeat or decision for champ.

 

[Franklin U.]

We really haven’t seen enough from Vanderford to really make a clean assessment I feel. Going from Fabian Edwards in a 3 rounder to a 5 rounder vs Mousasi is a big step up. I really don’t know what to expect.

Agreed and basically said as much except Fabian Edwards doesn't last 3 rounds with Mousasi.
That doesn't mean Mousasi wins but I feel when fight happens, he'll be the same significant favorite ( which also doesnt mean he wins ).
Vanderford is undefeated and has already talked himself up ....which is a good thing.

 

[Hellowhosthat]

We really haven’t seen enough from Vanderford to really make a clean assessment I feel. Going from Fabian Edwards in a 3 rounder to a 5 rounder vs Mousasi is a big step up. I really don’t know what to expect.

Edwards is pretty shit. They really need to get some bridging MW's in to get people ready to fight Moose. Someone like Elias Theodorou would be a good test of people so they fight someone inbetween the quality of Mousasi and Fabian Edwards.

 

[Hellowhosthat]

Hes 27 with what ? 20 fights under his belt. Give it time. Mousasi would beat Marvin- no doubt in my mind ( until moose hits 38 ...msybe- at this point only God knows but his time will come, of course).
That's my opinion and I'd like to believe its without any personal bias. If he doesn't finish him then I see a fairly easy decision.

Listen , I still dont know how good Israel Adesanya is. His stand up is awesome....on every count. However , if the " Italian dream" is the best style on the UFC roster to beat Adesanya then Israel will be in for a long reign. I'll be rooting for Whitaker but I dont see him getting Israel to ground so this could be a rinse & repeat or decision for champ.

He's survived fine with world class strikers like Izzy and world class grapplers like Shoeface while being stuck in their realm for decent portions of the fight. The dude is just hard to get out of there. His cardio isn't going to wilt and he isn't going to wilt mentally either.

 

[Franklin U.]

He's survived fine with world class strikers like Izzy and world class grapplers like Shoeface while being stuck in their realm for decent portions of the fight. The dude is just hard to get out of there. His cardio isn't going to wilt and he isn't going to wilt mentally either.

This doesn't mean he cant be finished and Israel , at times, fights tentatively ( just like moose does )) from time to time - even more so when you consider where he is in his career.

Didnt he lose to shoeface- ( my bad if wrong ). Any version of him loses to Mousasi ..... and in a straight up grappling match , he loses to Raphael.

 

[Hellowhosthat]

This doesn't mean he cant be finished and Israel , at times, fights tentatively ( just like moose does )) from time to time - even more so when you consider where he is in his career.

Didnt he lose to shoeface- ( my bad if wrong ). Any version of him loses to Mousasi ..... and in a straight up grappling match , he loses to Raphael.

He lost a close decision to Shoeface a few years ago. He's improved a lot since then though and from memory of that fight I think he would have won a 5 rounder at the time anyway.

Not sure about Shoeface and Lovato in straight grappling. Those are two high level grapplers.

 

[careto]

He lost a close decision to Shoeface a few years ago. He's improved a lot since then though and from memory of that fight I think he would have won a 5 rounder at the time anyway.

Not sure about Shoeface and Lovato in straight grappling. Those are two high level grapplers.

Lovato is way outside the realm of Shoeface or Vettori's level of grappling, IMO.