Rewatch Just rewatched Volk vs Islam

This is a classic case of winning the match and losing the fight

Islam won Maybe 3 rounds but they were close

Round 5 was a massive victory for volk as he looked to be just getting started while Islam was at the end of his rope. And Volk landed more damage in r5 than Islam did the whole fight
I bet 95% of fans had Islam up 3-1 going into the 5th.

And after the fight suddenly a lot of people claim to have had it tied going into the 5th.

None of the first 4 rounds were blowouts, but I thought Islam was pretty comfortably ahead.
 
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This is a classic case of winning the match and losing the fight

Islam won Maybe 3 rounds but they were close

Round 5 was a massive victory for volk as he looked to be just getting started while Islam was at the end of his rope. And Volk landed more damage in r5 than Islam did the whole fight

Yeah a punch that hit Islam's shoulder and maybe one or two clean punches that landed via GnP (the rest was Volk flailing and hiitting arms n shoulders).

Islam hit him with the way better strikes in that round too. Volk kept nodding when he was being tagged making it obvious he had been caught.
 
I bet 95% of fans had Islam up 3-1 going into the 5th.

And after the fight suddenly a lot of people had it tied going into the 5th.

None of the first 4 rounds were blowouts, but I thought Islam was pretty comfortably ahead.
Exactly my feelings. Then the next day, all I read was how Volk got "robbed". Islam clearly won the fight. No way you can give
Volk 3 rounds in that fight.
 
I think I view grappling quite differently that many others. People say Islam was doing nothing when he had his back. I don’t see it that way. What I see is Volk defending well, preventing advancement. Islam is working for his opportunity but it looks like nothing because of the defense. But the key word here is still defense, Volk was the one in trouble in this position and rabbit punches behind his head are not enough for me to say he’s being more successful. That to me in not effective striking whilst being stuck in a position one wrong move away from getting finished.
Its still striking vs going for a finish that never happened
 
Its still striking vs going for a finish that never happened

That’s one of the biggest issues in how many interpret the rules to me. People see any strikes as being successful, no matter how weak or meaningless. But to me (and the rules) taking a dominant position and maintaining it is successful and effective grappling. You cannot judge it the same way as you do striking because grappling in and of itself does not cause damage unless the submission is completed. So much of grappling is taking good positions that force your opponent to take a risk to escape, which leads to submissions.

However, with this idea that a defending fighter can make no attempts to escape and just defend for it to be considered an even exchange doesn’t make sense. Or the fighter can throw meaningless arm punches and be considered the winner of the exchange? All this does is incentivize the defending fighter to play it safe, make no attempts to escape, and at worst come out even. In my mind, the defending fighter is losing that exchange until they escape or utilize effective offensive maneuvers, arm punches behind your back don’t hit that threshold.
 
Can't tell if people are Islam haters or Volkanovski fans nowadays, lol. The mental gymnastics on display are hilarious sometimes either way.

Volkanovski fought a great fight and surprised us all. He still lost that fight. 48-47.
 
Regardless how it finished Islam won
Fury nearly died in the 12th round vs Wilder. OK he got up and finished strong, but he was the guy who won most rounds. Wilder did damage

Volk definitely finished stronger and inflicted more damage, but Islam won the majority of the fight

A football team can be up 3-0 and a team comes in strong and scores 2 late goals looking way more fresh. Yes the team that's fresh would likely go on to win, had there been more time. But this is the thing, there wasn't more time. The 5 rounds were complete and Islam hung on to win

Should of, would of, could of
That means fuck all now, as they are fighting on Saturday. It's a different fight and obviously under different circumstances

I would love these guys to both have a full camp, but it is what it is. The better man on the night will win, it will not be Alex
How the fuck do you know? Now I hope Alex sleeps the little retard
 
This is a classic case of winning the match and losing the fight

Islam won Maybe 3 rounds but they were close

Round 5 was a massive victory for volk as he looked to be just getting started while Islam was at the end of his rope. And Volk landed more damage in r5 than Islam did the whole fight


People say a lot of dumb things, round five Volk landed one good punch that floored Makhachev, then missed most of the ground and pound because of the good defence by Makhachev.
 
I see a lot of people say this, but Volk lost 2 whole rounds purely off of getting controlled in the grappling, just because he couldn't get finished doesn't mean grappling wasn't a big liability for him, it was by far his biggest liability and he should still be very worried about it. It's not like he can let his hands go without a care in the world.

That doesn’t mean he shouldn’t let his hands go without a care in the world.

If the first fight proved anything, it was that getting taken down by Islam is not a death sentence like it was when Khabib did it. You can survive it and come out swinging in the next round.

Volk only wins this by finish. Repeating the same strategy would be foolish.
 
That’s one of the biggest issues in how many interpret the rules to me. People see any strikes as being successful, no matter how weak or meaningless. But to me (and the rules) taking a dominant position and maintaining it is successful and effective grappling. You cannot judge it the same way as you do striking because grappling in and of itself does not cause damage unless the submission is completed. So much of grappling is taking good positions that force your opponent to take a risk to escape, which leads to submissions.

However, with this idea that a defending fighter can make no attempts to escape and just defend for it to be considered an even exchange doesn’t make sense. Or the fighter can throw meaningless arm punches and be considered the winner of the exchange? All this does is incentivize the defending fighter to play it safe, make no attempts to escape, and at worst come out even. In my mind, the defending fighter is losing that exchange until they escape or utilize effective offensive maneuvers, arm punches behind your back don’t hit that threshold.

Maintaining a position isn't effective grappling, it's stalling. The UR of MMA make it a point of emphasis to analyze what's happening in a position moreso than the position itself.

” It shall be noted that a successful takedown is not merely a changing of position, but the establishment of an attack from the use of the takedown. Top and bottom position fighters are assessed more on the impactful/effective result of their actions, more so than their position"

Merely holding a dominant position(s) shall not be a primary factor in assessing dominance. What the fighter does with those positions is what must be assessed.




This is what effective grappling is per the UR. Please explain the negative impact Islam's grappling had on Volk, either the immediate or cumulative.

Successful execution of takedowns, submission attempts, reversals and the achievement of advantageous positions that produce immediate or cumulative impact with the potential to contribute to the end of the match, with the IMMEDIATE weighing more heavily than the cumulative impact.”

When we look at the 4th round, they were in basically the same position for the last 3 1/2 minutes. Sure Islam was "maintaining" back control.......from the bottom. Volk being on top is an overlooked point imo, but moot anyway since the UR tells us the action is more important than the position. What happened in the position was Volk outstriking Islam about 3 to 1. Islam spent more effort defending his face from strikes, than Volk spent defending from anything. The "advantageous position" Islam held lead to zero sub attempts and a large striking deficit, all while his cardio was depleting more rapidly than Volks. That doesn't sound like an advantge to me.

While the UR does say this about favoring the immediate over the cumulative, it doesn't tell us to ignore the cumulative completely.

“Legal blows that have immediate or cumulative impact with the potential to contribute towards the end of the match with the IMMEDIATE weighing in more heavily than the cumulative impact. Successful execution of takedowns, submission attempts, reversals and the achievement of advantageous positions that produce immediate or cumulative impact with the potential to contribute to the end of the match, with the IMMEDIATE weighing more heavily than the cumulative impact"

In the 4th round there wasn't much striking or grappling that appeared to have much immediate impact. When it comes to cumulative impact, it looked like Islam received more cosmetic damage to his face, while his energy, confidence, and spirit all seemed diminished by the round. Volk didn't show any signs that the round had any negative affect on him at all. He jumped up energetic and happy after the round like he just scored the winning goal.

A judge shall assess if a fighter impacts their opponent significantly in the round, even though they may not have dominated the action. Impact includes visible evidence such as swelling and lacerations. Impact shall also be assessed when a fighter’s actions, using striking and/or grappling, lead to a diminishing of their opponents’ energy, confidence, abilities and spirit


I went in to the first fight as an anti fan of both guys. Great fight! Much like Yan/O'Malley, I came out of it with a far greater appreciation for both guys. I hope they go tooth and nail again.
 
I hadt it 3-2 Islam, but people are so fucking dramatic about that fight
 
Maintaining a position isn't effective grappling, it's stalling. The UR of MMA make it a point of emphasis to analyze what's happening in a position moreso than the position itself.

” It shall be noted that a successful takedown is not merely a changing of position, but the establishment of an attack from the use of the takedown. Top and bottom position fighters are assessed more on the impactful/effective result of their actions, more so than their position"

Merely holding a dominant position(s) shall not be a primary factor in assessing dominance. What the fighter does with those positions is what must be assessed.




This is what effective grappling is per the UR. Please explain the negative impact Islam's grappling had on Volk, either the immediate or cumulative.

Successful execution of takedowns, submission attempts, reversals and the achievement of advantageous positions that produce immediate or cumulative impact with the potential to contribute to the end of the match, with the IMMEDIATE weighing more heavily than the cumulative impact.”

When we look at the 4th round, they were in basically the same position for the last 3 1/2 minutes. Sure Islam was "maintaining" back control.......from the bottom. Volk being on top is an overlooked point imo, but moot anyway since the UR tells us the action is more important than the position. What happened in the position was Volk outstriking Islam about 3 to 1. Islam spent more effort defending his face from strikes, than Volk spent defending from anything. The "advantageous position" Islam held lead to zero sub attempts and a large striking deficit, all while his cardio was depleting more rapidly than Volks. That doesn't sound like an advantge to me.

While the UR does say this about favoring the immediate over the cumulative, it doesn't tell us to ignore the cumulative completely.

“Legal blows that have immediate or cumulative impact with the potential to contribute towards the end of the match with the IMMEDIATE weighing in more heavily than the cumulative impact. Successful execution of takedowns, submission attempts, reversals and the achievement of advantageous positions that produce immediate or cumulative impact with the potential to contribute to the end of the match, with the IMMEDIATE weighing more heavily than the cumulative impact"

In the 4th round there wasn't much striking or grappling that appeared to have much immediate impact. When it comes to cumulative impact, it looked like Islam received more cosmetic damage to his face, while his energy, confidence, and spirit all seemed diminished by the round. Volk didn't show any signs that the round had any negative affect on him at all. He jumped up energetic and happy after the round like he just scored the winning goal.

A judge shall assess if a fighter impacts their opponent significantly in the round, even though they may not have dominated the action. Impact includes visible evidence such as swelling and lacerations. Impact shall also be assessed when a fighter’s actions, using striking and/or grappling, lead to a diminishing of their opponents’ energy, confidence, abilities and spirit


I went in to the first fight as an anti fan of both guys. Great fight! Much like Yan/O'Malley, I came out of it with a far greater appreciation for both guys. I hope they go tooth and nail again.

I’m gonna be honest, there is a lot here and I’m currently down with covid so there’s a lot of effort to respond to all of it. There’s some good points and I’ll try to do a better response later. But I’d like your opinion on this. Do you think all 3 judges, 85% of fans (according to mmadecisions), and the majority of media members all just don’t understand the criteria or do you think it’s a product of the criteria being open to personal interpretation and the majority interpret it differently than you are here? Or something else entirely?
 
Seems counter intuitive to credit someone for "control" time while they are being face punched repeatedly.
That’s a crucial point, it is so unnatural to just hold a guy still while he hits you lightly. You almost should jsut stnad them up,

Volk won the fight but islam won the rounds
 
I have watched that fight like 8 times now... Islam won rounds 1,2,3,4 and 4 minutes of round 5. Volk dominated the last minute... GOD I hope Islam finally puts that midget to sleep on Saturday. This shit is getting annoying at this point. Yes fight was close, but people are delusional if they think Volk won that fight.. SMH
 
Can't tell if people are Islam haters or Volkanovski fans nowadays, lol. The mental gymnastics on display are hilarious sometimes either way.

Volkanovski fought a great fight and surprised us all. He still lost that fight. 48-47.

I find there's not many fighters I don't like these days, it's the delusional fan base that I dislike.
In this case, Volks and Islam's fanbase are as bad eachother imo.
 
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