Social Landmark Dutch study shows those pesky conservatives were right all along: Kids grow out of "gender confusion"

[Rygu]

physicians provide gender affirming treatment to people experiencing gender dysphoria because that has the best outcomes for patients.

Short term perhaps, medium-long term no

Many women get boob jobs and then later regret it - we don't then decide to outlaw breast enhancement surgery

No because these are adults in this situation

Many men get hair transplants and then later regret it - we don't then decide to outlaw hair transplants.

No, because again, adults

Why do you think normal/mainstream doctors in garden variety hospitals are providing gender affirming care Mick?

Money

That's what this is about. It's about you being emotionally motivated to harm people that your lizard brain (the amygdala) has identified as the "out group". A group that elicits a disgust response from your amygdala.

Ohhhh someone took intro Psych over here

You like to play it straight like you're a serious rational calm conservative, when the reality is that you're just as emotionally motivated as any other rabid frothing MAGA freak. That's what this is about. It's about you being emotionally motivated to harm people that your lizard brain (the amygdala) has identified as the "out group". A group that elicits a disgust response from your amygdala. This isn't about a rational calm careful analysis of the evidence. It's about you being unable to restrain and regulate the primitive lizard part of your brain.

Pot meet kettle

 

[Rod1]

So your position is that we have trans characters in kids shows,

Again, which kid shows are you talking about?

and trans athletes in schools

I never agreed with trans athletes in high performance sports and we have always had mixed gender competition in schools, we just stop doing that when the differences between sexes and competition results start to matter.

and trans visibility days because of social media algorithms?

I think the issue is made much larger because of all the visibility brought by social media, yes.

 

[Sweater of AV]

I don't care to make this a left vs right thing but if the study is sound then it's good to see. I don't negate the possibility that there are people who are genuinely trans etc but something is really off with what's been happening. Hopefully more research is done and approaches for helping children are developed.

 

[blackheart]

Short term perhaps, medium-long term no

No because these are adults in this situation

Oh, so medical treatment should only be provided to adults now? That's an interesting line of logic.

No, because again, adults


Money


Ohhhh someone took intro Psych over here

More like 400 level political psychology. Pointing out that I'm educated isn't an own. You thinking that is an own, is ironically a self own.

Pot meet kettle

Sorry bud - the data shows that it's right wingers who are the most emotionally motivated in their political behavior. Particularly the emotions of fear and disgust.

 

[terrapin]

I don't care to make this a left vs right thing but if the study is sound then it's good to see. I don't negate the possibility that there are people who are genuinely trans etc but something is really off with what's been happening. Hopefully more research is done and approaches for helping children are developed.

This is a good sane post. There is a social contagion involved and there's also public shaming of professionals or lay people who don't completely support everything the trans activist community is doing. There are plenty of scholars who've spoken out against this who've been labeled bigots who are actually firmly on the left politically but they're labeled bigots just because they're seeing serious problems here.

I also am convinced that a very small percentage of people are actually trans and they definitely need to get the care they deserve but to distinguish between someone who is actually trans and someone who has comorbidities can take a great deal of time and therapy and since we don't want to pay for that, it doesn't happen.

 

[Rygu]

Oh, so medical treatment should only be provided to adults now? That's an interesting line of logic.

Permanent body modifying medical treatment requested by a brain that isnt close to being fully developed? Yes

Pointing out that I'm educated isn't an own.

I certainly was not doing that at all.

Sorry bud - the data shows that it's right wingers who are the most emotionally motivated in their political behavior. Particularly the emotions of fear and disgust.

Ahhhh yes conservatives need safe spaces, trigger warnings, and become suicidal from being misgendered and dead-named. Forgot about that

 

[BudKing8806]

Right wingers think about trans dick 100x more than even trans people do. It's fucking insaneeeeeee how much free real estate trans dick owns in right wingers heads.

Regulating corporations?
Increasing taxes on the rich?
Increasing protections for American workers?
Crumbling infrastructure?
Children in poverty going hungry?

NOPE LOL. WE TALKIN' 'BOUT TRANS DICK BOYS. TRANS DICK FOR BREAKFAST. TRANS DICK FOR LUNCH. TRANS DICK FOR DINNER. TRANS DICK ON MY DOME 24/7 365

Now this is intelligence

 

[AbominableJoman]

Wanting to protect children from mutilation = you love trannies and want to bang them

It’s projection by the left. They can’t be trusted with children

 

[Sinister]

What a pathetic attempt to conflate slapstick humor with genuine mental illness.

You and I rarely agree on topics, but I’ve never known you to debase yourself like this…

Also, it’s not “making me feel weird” it’s needlessly confusing kids about their gender and who they are as developing people FFS.

You brought up the idea that cartoons are transing the kids, and now when faced with the idea that we've always had gender-confusion and even implicit homosexuality (Bugs and Elmer sure kissed a lot) and it never resulted in this explosion of homosexuality, look at how heated your reply is.

BTW for those in here who earlier brought up the Cass report:

"In the latest twist over the Cass Review, a controversial report released in England last week targeting transgender care, the review’s leader has seemingly walked back recommendations and findings that have already led to a crackdown on transgender care in the United Kingdom. Dr. Hilary Cass, in an interview with LGBTQ+ organizations, reportedly stated that puberty blockers and hormone therapy should be made available at differing ages based on individual need, and that current policies in England often result in those medications being offered too late. This stands in stark contrast to the report itself, which presents much more restrictive findings and recommendations on trans youth care that have been used to ban treatments in the UK and cited by far-right organizations behind bans in the United States."

Seems the authors of these studies don't conclude the same as people celebrating them as moral victories.

 

[Sinister]

And you've ignored the OP because you don't like it's conclusion... Head in sand



But yes... continue to support mutilating teens and possibly making them permanently infertile. Teens who barely know what they want in life and what they want to do. What a fantastic idea... Letting a 12 or 13 year old make a decision that will permanently alter their body for the rest of their life. Espeically a kid who may be experiencing mental issues and not making decision clearly.

Let me be clear... I give zero fucks about what an adult wants to do. After 18... have at it, even if believe that's a still a little young. But kids are far more malleable and will bend to the will of the adults in their lives, especially parents and doctors. If a psycho parent is pushing a trans agenda on their young child.. guess what happens. And because the America system has lost its minds, there's almost zero pushback from doctors as shown in the article below.

Notice how most EU countries require thorough therapy and counseling before even considering hormone blockers or surgery? What a novel idea... Maybe make sure the kid really is trans and not projecting due to outside influence or other mental issues.

Europe And U.S. Diverge Sharply On Treatment Of Gender Incongruence In Minors​

Europe And U.S. Diverge Sharply On Treatment Of Gender Incongruence In Minors

In line with precautionary principle, introduction of treatments whose effects are either disputed or unknown should be carefully reviewed before being routinely adopted.

www.forbes.com

In Europe political divisions on this topic aren’t nearly as conspicuous as they are in the U.S. Rather, the debate is much more fact-based. An increasing number of countries have conducted systematic reviews of evidence to determine the benefits and risks of puberty blockers and cross-sex hormones. And the findings from these reviews—that the certainty of benefits is “very low”—have informed changes in policy regarding treatment of gender incongruence in minors. While European health authorities aren’t instituting bans on treatment, currently minors in six European countries—Norway, U.K. Sweden, Denmark, France and Finland—can access puberty blockers and cross-sex hormones only if they meet strict eligibility requirements, usually in the context of a tightly controlled research setting.

Unlike Europe, there doesn’t appear to be a middle ground in the U.S. Instead the discussion on trans care for youth is polarized, with dueling diametrically opposed viewpoints. It’s either provide access to a full set of services, including pharmaceutical interventions, without reservation and cite existing evidence as if it’s settled science, or prohibit therapy entirely. (What were you saying again? The Science is settled? lol)

A marked shift in policy this year has meant that in Denmark most youth referred to the centralized gender clinic no longer get a prescription for puberty blockers, hormones or surgery. Rather, they receive therapeutic counseling and other support services. (NO WAY!! SHOCKING)

In France, the Académie Nationale de Médecine in February 2022 recommended the “greatest reserve” when considering puberty blockers or hormone treatments. The academy warned that the risk of “over-diagnosis” is real and urged caution when evaluating patients.

At the risk of overgeneralizing, the American approach allows minors much more autonomy, in which the medical establishment’s role is mostly to assent to a child’s declaration that he or she is trans. This affirmative model removes several safeguards put in place by, say, the Dutch Protocol, resulting in a possible deficient lack of medical precautions.

Lol@posting what the authors of the study in the OP concluded =/= ignoring the OP.

Like I said you are incapable of honest discourse.

 

[Ruke Doufus]

Mediocre surgeons after learning how many youths are affected by gender confusion

 

[SammyJar88]

All sex change surgeries should be banned for children and adults. It's an extremely disgusting and immoral mutilation of the body that's never helped anyone psychologically.

 

[PhitePhan]

I think the issue is made much larger because of all the visibility brought by social media, yes.

Much larger than what?

Social media is pointing a lens at what is happening in the world, it’s not fabricating it… you seem to be in here pretending that this issue “isn’t really that big” as if people are making these facts up (kids shows, schools promoting gender confusion, athletics, politics, etc).

Seems like you want to paint people who are concerned as off-base and having fallen victim to algorithms as a way to diminish their concerns.

 

[Rod1]

Much larger than what?

Much larger than believing its a national crisis.

Social media is pointing a lens at what is happening in the world, it’s not fabricating it… you seem to be in here pretending that this issue “isn’t really that big” as if people are making these facts up (kids shows, schools promoting gender confusion, athletics, politics, etc).

BS man, social media just shows what people want to see, it has no bearing on the scope of things happening.

You still have failed to name a trans kid netflix show that somehow your kids are watching.

Seems like you want to paint people who are concerned as off-base and having fallen victim to algorithms as a way to diminish their concerns.

Concerned about stuff t

 

[Andy Capp]

Posters like these two geeks don't seem smart enough to see the irony of them defending trans people....... by using being attracted to trans people as an insult.

What is "defending trans people" and why is it a bad thing?

 

[DiddlyDoodly]

All these new pronouns and genders has all the children and teens confused to identify with hahaha!

I heard some idiot on twitter talking about a new Gender that changes every season.

I mean, what the Hell is going on here?

 

[kflo]

But that's not what the science says, or what the scientists themselves said. What they said was that among the small percentage of gender-confused kids, some will progress to gender dysphoria and some have other problems. This is also not at all a controversial contention. Their study suggested 4% of kids will progress to clinical gender dysphoria. For the US, that's nearly 3 million kids. These dingleberries in here are going to suggest that those 3 million kids (a percentage verified by the cited study) will also just eventually grow out of it.

the amount of people under 18 receiving hormone treatment, puberty blockers or (especially) surgery are a tiny fraction of the #'s implied from this study. for some reason, people are gloating about a study suggesting up to 4% of the population has gender issues / could benefit from care. it's not like we have 20% of the population starting treatment only for the predominant majority to have regret.

they are also generally clueless about recommendations in the published standards of care:

Statements of Recommendations

• 7.1- We recommend health care professionals working with gender diverse children receive training and have expertise in gender development and gender diversity in children and possess a general knowledge of gender diversity across the life span.
• 7.2- We recommend health care professionals working with gender diverse children receive theoretical and evidenced-based training and develop expertise in general child and family mental health across the developmental spectrum.
• 7.3- We recommend health care professionals working with gender diverse children receive training and develop expertise in autism spectrum disorders and other neurodiversity or collaborate with an expert with relevant expertise when working with autistic / neuro divergent, gender diverse children.
• 7.4- We recommend health care professionals working with gender diverse children engage in continuing education related to gender diverse children and families.
• 7.5- We recommend health care professionals conducting an assessment with gender diverse children access and integrate information from multiple sources as part of the assessment.
• 7.6- We recommend health care professionals conducting an assessment with gender diverse children consider relevant developmental factors, neurocognitive functioning, and language skills.
• 7.7- We recommend health care professionals conducting an assessment with gender diverse children consider factors that may constrain accurate reporting of gender identity/gender expression by the child and/or family/caregiver(s).
• 7.8- We recommend health care professionals consider consultation, psychotherapy, or both for a gender diverse child and family/caregivers when families and health care professionals believe this would benefit the well-being and development of a child and/or family.
• 7.9- We recommend health care professionals offering consultation, psychotherapy, or both to gender diverse children and families/caregivers work with other settings and individuals important to the child to promote the child's resilience and emotional well-being.
• 7.10- We recommend health care professionals offering consultation, psychotherapy, or both to gender diverse children and families/caregivers provide both parties with age-appropriate psychoeducation about gender development.
• 7.11- We recommend that health care professionals provide information to gender diverse children and their families/care givers as the child approaches puberty about potential gender affirming medical interventions, the effects of these treatments on future fertility, and options for fertility preservation.
• 7.12- We recommend parents/caregivers and health care professionals respond supportively to children who desire to be acknowledged as the gender that matches their internal sense of gender identity.
• 7.13- We recommend health care professionals and parents/caregivers support children to continue to explore their gender throughout the pre-pubescent years, regardless of social transition.
• 7.14- We recommend the health care professionals discuss the potential benefits and risks of a social transition with families who are considering it.
• 7.15- We suggest health care professionals consider working collaboratively with other professionals and organizations to promote the well-being of gender diverse children and minimize the adversities they may face.

nothing suggests just pushing a child towards their then preferred gender, and this study doesn't suggest either that gender identity isn't real, or that treatment isn't in the interest of some patients. and it recognizes there can be other underlying factors.

some believe noone should have access to gender care. they should be forced to conform.

others recognize that isn't always in the best interest of the individual.

i'm all for treatment under mandatory supervision / clinical trial. more info, more data, better. that's what's happening in the countries some are pretending have banned treatment.

 

[Osculater]

I heard some idiot on twitter talking about a new Gender that changes every season.

I mean, what the Hell is going on here?

Probably is confused with the difference between gender and personality

 

[shunyata]

Ahhhh yes conservatives need safe spaces, trigger warnings, and become suicidal from being misgendered and dead-named. Forgot about that

Elon is literally telling people not to vote for Democrats while complaining about people calling twitter "twitter" instead of "X" and how disrespectful it is. Don't they know the application identifies as "X" now?

And there are quite a few posters on here who seem like they'd be happier if Disney+ started putting up trigger warnings.

"Warning: this episode of Ahsoka may contain woke gay shit that could offend sensitive viewers, also Thrawn has a potbelly and may not be as sexy as he is in your fantasies."


But I digress.

While we're all here to protect the children, can everyone agree that the United States should pass medicare for all? As long as gender affirming care is an out of pocket elective expense?

 

[Andy Capp]

the amount of people under 18 receiving hormone treatment, puberty blockers or (especially) surgery are a tiny fraction of the #'s implied from this study. for some reason, people are gloating about a study suggesting up to 4% of the population has gender issues / could benefit from care. it's not like we have 20% of the population starting treatment only for the predominant majority to have regret.

they are also generally clueless about recommendations in the published standards of care:

Statements of Recommendations

• 7.1- We recommend health care professionals working with gender diverse children receive training and have expertise in gender development and gender diversity in children and possess a general knowledge of gender diversity across the life span.
• 7.2- We recommend health care professionals working with gender diverse children receive theoretical and evidenced-based training and develop expertise in general child and family mental health across the developmental spectrum.
• 7.3- We recommend health care professionals working with gender diverse children receive training and develop expertise in autism spectrum disorders and other neurodiversity or collaborate with an expert with relevant expertise when working with autistic / neuro divergent, gender diverse children.
• 7.4- We recommend health care professionals working with gender diverse children engage in continuing education related to gender diverse children and families.
• 7.5- We recommend health care professionals conducting an assessment with gender diverse children access and integrate information from multiple sources as part of the assessment.
• 7.6- We recommend health care professionals conducting an assessment with gender diverse children consider relevant developmental factors, neurocognitive functioning, and language skills.
• 7.7- We recommend health care professionals conducting an assessment with gender diverse children consider factors that may constrain accurate reporting of gender identity/gender expression by the child and/or family/caregiver(s).
• 7.8- We recommend health care professionals consider consultation, psychotherapy, or both for a gender diverse child and family/caregivers when families and health care professionals believe this would benefit the well-being and development of a child and/or family.
• 7.9- We recommend health care professionals offering consultation, psychotherapy, or both to gender diverse children and families/caregivers work with other settings and individuals important to the child to promote the child's resilience and emotional well-being.
• 7.10- We recommend health care professionals offering consultation, psychotherapy, or both to gender diverse children and families/caregivers provide both parties with age-appropriate psychoeducation about gender development.
• 7.11- We recommend that health care professionals provide information to gender diverse children and their families/care givers as the child approaches puberty about potential gender affirming medical interventions, the effects of these treatments on future fertility, and options for fertility preservation.
• 7.12- We recommend parents/caregivers and health care professionals respond supportively to children who desire to be acknowledged as the gender that matches their internal sense of gender identity.
• 7.13- We recommend health care professionals and parents/caregivers support children to continue to explore their gender throughout the pre-pubescent years, regardless of social transition.
• 7.14- We recommend the health care professionals discuss the potential benefits and risks of a social transition with families who are considering it.
• 7.15- We suggest health care professionals consider working collaboratively with other professionals and organizations to promote the well-being of gender diverse children and minimize the adversities they may face.

nothing suggests just pushing a child towards their then preferred gender, and this study doesn't suggest either that gender identity isn't real, or that treatment isn't in the interest of some patients. and it recognizes there can be other underlying factors.

some believe noone should have access to gender care. they should be forced to conform.

others recognize that isn't always in the best interest of the individual.

i'm all for treatment under mandatory supervision / clinical trial. more info, more data, better. that's what's happening in the countries some are pretending have banned treatment.

Shhhh their feelings don't care about your facts.