Social Landmark Dutch study shows those pesky conservatives were right all along: Kids grow out of "gender confusion"

[kflo]

That's true but I would say the point of the thread is what's in the parentheses. Basically only ~ a third of the people who express gender non-contentedness in early adolescence still express it at 26. That's a fairly substantial reduction.

That’s why I asked the other question. Are there ways to identify the 4% that persist in adolescence

And the other point is that 4% is still a big number.

 

[Stump]

I ended up finding it. They didn’t cover it. I just found the study a bit odd in some areas. In the end i just skimmed through it and there is nothing really controversial about it.

They are using a term of gender non contendness vs gender dysphoria. The wording of the survey is a bit vague. The authors did state it might have loaded up the percentage of people who experience gender non contendness.

Agreed. This isn't the worldshattering revelation some in this thread want it to be.

And yes, I've never heard of the term gender non contentedness before.

 

[NoSmilez]

That's true but I would say the point of the thread is what's in the parentheses. Basically only ~ a third of the people who express gender non-contentedness in early adolescence still express it at 26. That's a fairly substantial reduction.

Isn't that normal though? My understanding is that gender non contendness is not gender dysphoria. Suppose say a girl starts to experience puberty and she wishes she is a boy so she doesn't have to live through the embarrassment. She will most likely grows out of it later. That is a common experience?

 

[Stump]

That's true but I would say the point of the thread is what's in the parentheses. Basically only ~ a third of the people who express gender non-contentedness in early adolescence still express it at 26. That's a fairly substantial reduction.

But what is gender non contentedness? As described in the study, it's basically the result of a questionnaire that asks about feeling uncertain about your gender, from what I quickly read. I think this is pretty obviously a much lower bar than gender dysphoria.

Honestly I think almost any aspect of self identity is going to change along similar lines between childhood and early adulthood. That's kind of the point of growing up

 

[AbominableJoman]

Ah the retard is back. I'll go back to ignoring you. I should have known you were too immature to be able to take some friendly ribbing.

Is that @jackhandyjr or whatever? Hmm…

 

[Scerpi]

That’s why I asked the other question. Are there ways to identify the 4% that persist in adolescence

And the other point is that 4% is still a big number.

The point for me would be... Why not take the European route and take their time. Even waiting until their 18-20. Instead of starting treatment at 12 or 13. Seriously, it's not too late.

Focus on therapy... determine whether there's something else going on or are they truly trans. Then start treatment after a thorough checkout.

Instead of the US approach which is start hormone blockers straight out of the gate.

I posted an article earlier about the differences between the US and EU on how minors are treated.

 

[NoSmilez]

Agreed. This isn't the worldshattering revelation some in this thread want it to be.

And yes, I've never heard of the term gender non contentedness before.

That term is a bit odd. I am not in that space to know if it's widely used or not. That word is making my autocorrect on my phone go nuts. My impression is that conclusions regarding gender non contendness(GNC) cannot be applied to gender dysphoria. While people with gender dysphoria also experience GNC but people with GNC don't necessarily experience gender dysphoria.

Personally I don't feel like children should be fast tracked on transitioning but this study doesn't really help my cause. The title is spicier vs the actual conclusion.

 

[Sweater of AV]

That’s why I asked the other question. Are there ways to identify the 4% that persist in adolescence

And the other point is that 4% is still a big number.

I doubt any of them are physically the same throughout.

Agreed, that's still fairly large, or at least larger than I would have expected.

Isn't that normal though? My understanding is that gender non contendness is not gender dysphoria. Suppose say a girl starts to experience puberty and she wishes she is a boy so she doesn't have to live through the embarrassment. She will most likely grows out of it later. That is a common experience?

But what is gender non contentedness? As described in the study, it's basically the result of a questionnaire that asks about feeling uncertain about your gender, from what I quickly read. I think this is pretty obviously a much lower bar than gender dysphoria.

Honestly I think almost any aspect of self identity is going to change along similar lines between childhood and early adulthood. That's kind of the point of growing up

These are fair points and I'd have to get more familiar with this stuff and the definitions used. There's definitely a difference between dissatisfaction and actually identifying as a different gender. Honestly, I don't know very much about these things but it would be a shame if they went through all of this trouble without recording how dysphoria changed with age.

 

[kflo]

The point for me would be... Why not take the European route and take their time. Even waiting until their 18-20. Instead of starting treatment at 12 or 13. Seriously, it's not too late.

Focus on therapy... determine whether there's something else going on or are they truly trans. Then start treatment after a thorough checkout.

Instead of the US approach which is start hormone blockers straight out of the gate.

I posted an article earlier about the differences between the US and EU on how minors are treated.

As you know, the physical difference between someone who goes through puberty and someone who doesn’t can be dramatic. IF they ultimately transition, it’s a big difference for the rest of their life.

Of course, there’s differing views on the long term impact of puberty blockers. Families should make informed decisions knowing risks and effects. I’m on board with delaying more permanent treatments in almost all cases.

 

[Sweater of AV]

Is that @jackhandyjr or whatever? Hmm…

Add one more to the list.

You guys should really get together and tell each other stories of how I hurt you so badly on a karate forum. Lmao.

 

[AbominableJoman]

Add one more to the list.

You guys should really get together and tell each other stories of how I hurt you so badly on a karate forum. Lmao.

 

[Sweater of AV]

I know I'm upset but I can't stop thinking about Sweater of AV. He's why I log onto Sherdog every minute of every day.

Strange, but I don't judge.

 

[Senzo Tanaka]

The biggest change I've seen is a lot of people identify as "non-binary" and "they/them" when 20-30 years ago, they'd simply be gay. Social media has clearly influenced this new generation of people to make them think they are special or separate from the male/female binary.

I don't think there's even such a thing as a butch lesbian now. They are all "non-binary". I saw a video recently where some lesbians were talking about how they can't even meet lesbians at a bar anymore because they think they are men now.

 

[PhitePhan]

Isn't that normal though? My understanding is that gender non contendness is not gender dysphoria. Suppose say a girl starts to experience puberty and she wishes she is a boy so she doesn't have to live through the embarrassment. She will most likely grows out of it later. That is a common experience?

Exactly, and when you realize how malleable identity is during our youth, you can start to realize how damaging the trans ideology can be… take a child who is naturally confused, scared, hesitant, and tell them they can actually be the opposite sex… even go so far as to celebrate it.

It’s a recipe for disaster, both in the form of damaging the normal developmental processes, and more so when kids get swept into actual “affirmative care” model of “treatment” due to idiot parents and an unethical healthcare model.

 

[Loiosh]

The point for me would be... Why not take the European route and take their time. Even waiting until their 18-20. Instead of starting treatment at 12 or 13. Seriously, it's not too late.

Focus on therapy... determine whether there's something else going on or are they truly trans. Then start treatment after a thorough checkout.

Instead of the US approach which is start hormone blockers straight out of the gate.

I posted an article earlier about the differences between the US and EU on how minors are treated.

I have no idea why you think that.

The process is slow and cautious, and getting to the mildest medicinal treatment often takes years of therapy.

Where did you hear kids get blockers right out of the gate?

The focus has always been on therapy, which is called affirmation not because it prioritizes a new gender but because it helps a child reduce anxiety. It lets children know they are loved and supported no matter what they decide.

Conservatives want to mold children into what they think is best, while progressives want to help children find their own way. In my opinion the healthiest course is a mix of the two.

Families have rejected and banished gay children for a very long time, it feels like the conservative war on trans children is a new front for this war. Conservatives will ultimately lose this war as they have mostly lost the war against homosexuality, the question is how many children will they harm along the way?

 

[Stump]

That term is a bit odd. I am not in that space to know if it's widely used or not. That word is making my autocorrect on my phone go nuts. My impression is that conclusions regarding gender non contendness(GNC) cannot be applied to gender dysphoria. While people with gender dysphoria also experience GNC but people with GNC don't necessarily experience gender dysphoria.

Personally I don't feel like children should be fast tracked on transitioning but this study doesn't really help my cause. The title is spicier vs the actual conclusion.

Agreed on all points.

I doubt any of them are physically the same throughout.

Agreed, that's still fairly large, or at least larger than I would have expected.





These are fair points and I'd have to get more familiar with this stuff and the definitions used. There's definitely a difference between dissatisfaction and actually identifying as a different gender. Honestly, I don't know very much about these things but it would be a shame if they went through all of this trouble without recording how dysphoria changed with age.

So I two-third-assed read the article now, and I think the reason they use the term GNC is because GD is a diagnosis with associated negative symptoms, whereas GNC is a term they may even be coining here, that seems to just refer to someone answering "I agree" to the statement "I wish to be of the opposite sex" on a 0-2 point likert scale, with 2 being "Very True or Often True."

It looks like this study is just an analysis of data from a big Dutch general population study thats been issuing "waves" of questionnaires to youth as they age, and a second study that gives the same questionnaire to youth from a psychiatric outpatient population that matched the population in the bigger study. The authors of this study just crunched the numbers to look at how GNC is related to different factors and, interestingly, they also looked at trends - what are the factors associated with someone increasing or decreasing their GNC reporting over time?

An increasing gender non-contentedness trajectory was significantly associated with the clinical cohort, a homosexual or bisexual orientation, the self-concept subscale “Global Self-Worth,” and female sex, but not with the self-concept subscale “Physical Appearance.” A decreasing gender non-contentedness trajectory was also significantly associated with a homosexual or bisexual identification and global self-worth, but not with cohort type, sex, and the self-concept physical appearance subscale.

Interesting study, worth a quick read through.

 

[NoSmilez]

Exactly, and when you realize how malleable identity is during our youth, you can start to realize how damaging the trans ideology can be… take a child who is naturally confused, scared, hesitant, and tell them they can actually be the opposite sex… even go so far as to celebrate it.

It’s a recipe for disaster, both in the form of damaging the normal developmental processes, and more so when kids get swept into actual “affirmative care” model of “treatment” due to idiot parents and an unethical healthcare model.

I completely understand your point. The issue is that gender non contendness(GNC) isn't gender dysphoria. People with GNC not necessarily will have gender dysphoria. It takes quite a bit of reaching to arrive to that conclusion from this study. You would need a evil medical industry to adopt GNC as the new standard to begin transitioning. They already have a parameter for gender dysphoria that they are using to diagnose patients.

You really can't use this study to apply against aggressive trans ideology. It's really not a study about gender dysphoria or trans people. I agree with not pushing little kids early into transitioning but this study doesn't really help my case. There is nothing wrong with this study at all but it doesn't address the actual issues.

 

[Mr Holmes]

jesus man, you activated the village retard. now we'll get 40 notifications of schizo quotes filled with emojis about how he's "winning".

 

[kflo]

I completely understand your point. The issue is that gender non contendness(GNC) isn't gender dysphoria. People with GNC not necessarily will have gender dysphoria. It takes quite a bit of reaching to arrive to that conclusion from this study. You would need a evil medical industry to adopt GNC as the new standard to begin transitioning. They already have a parameter for gender dysphoria that they are using to diagnose patients.

You really can't use this study to apply against aggressive trans ideology. It's really not a study about gender dysphoria or trans people. I agree with not pushing little kids early into transitioning but this study doesn't really help my case. There is nothing wrong with this study at all but it doesn't address the actual issues.

It’s certainly been mischaracterized in this thread. Not surprisingly of course……

 

[NoSmilez]

It’s certainly been mischaracterized in this thread. Not surprisingly of course……

Yea we just got click baited by the thread title and initial post. Now I am sad because I know what gender non contendness is.....