Crime Maine shooting - 18 dead

@koquerelle

Here's a discussion of the methodology used to get that number.

Opinions will vary.

Do 98 percent of mass public shootings happen in gun-free zones?
Tx!

It's pretty much what I expected.

"Lott tightens his definition, excluding shootings that resulted from gang or drug violence or during the commission of a crime."

"His data set classifies the shootings that took place at Fort Hood and the Washington Navy Yard as having occurred in gun-free zones."
 
Ummm. Ok.

Can you explain to me what their purpose is then?
Using surpressor on a rifle greatly lower probability of hearingloss for the shooter.

You can use earplugs when practicing, but you cannot use them when hunting and you need to pick up faint sounds of moving animals somewhere around you before the come into sight.
Silencers do not cancel out the risk of hearingloss, but it significantly reduces it.

You still hear the shot over long distaces, but... softer. not as sharply.
 
Stop it with this hyperbole. You know that isn't it.

An unarmed society is at the mercy of it's leadership, or whoever else is armed.

Many Americans, including those who founded this country, rightfully fear tyranny and oppression more than they fear their anarchy more than their neighbor.

For me it's just a matter of simple statistics:

The odds of my child being murdered in a mass shooting is roughly 1 in 500,000.

I calculate the odds of my child being killed due to civil unrest or societal collapse for one of many reasons to be at least 100 times higher than that.

If those odds were to change I would change my opinion.
In civil unrest or societal collapse a few guns aren't saving your child. US citizens are no safer than any other countries when it comes to government takeover. A tank rolling through your neighborhood isn't going to be turned back by some fat 50 year old with a handgun
 
In civil unrest or societal collapse a few guns aren't saving your child. US citizens are no safer than any other countries when it comes to government takeover. A tank rolling through your neighborhood isn't going to be turned back by some fat 50 year old with a handgun

I don't think we have to actually worry about any tanks rolling through our hoods. Our government might be stupid, but it isn't THAT stupid.
 
But you felt the need to chime in? Thanks.



<JackieThumbsUp>

Aren't you the one who asked me to join in the gun discussion thread and I declined?

Buddy asked where a number came from so I found out and showed him, I still know nothing about guns but I'm familiar with stats and how they can be interpreted differently from different angles.
 
In civil unrest or societal collapse a few guns aren't saving your child. US citizens are no safer than any other countries when it comes to government takeover. A tank rolling through your neighborhood isn't going to be turned back by some fat 50 year old with a handgun

Explain Afghanistan and Vietnam then.

Also in a scenario like that, both sides would have tanks. You think every single person in the military is just itching to start mowing down the civilians they swore an oath to protect?
 
Aren't you the one who asked me to join in the gun discussion thread and I declined?

Heck if I know . . . I don't remember last week.
 
But let's continue to blame the gun and cry for more laws.

Before last week's mass shooting in Maine that left 18 dead and 13 wounded, the U.S. Army says suspect Robert Card's commander was told he should not have access to an Army-issued weapon, and that it asked the local sheriff’s office to perform a welfare check.

In a statement to ABC News on Monday, Lt. Col. Ruth Castro, a U.S. Army spokesperson, said that following his mental health hospitalization and evaluation in mid-July, Card's commander was told he "should not have a weapon, handle ammunition, and not participate in live fire activity."

The Army also determined he should not be put in deployable status "due to concerns over his well-being," according to the statement.
 
Do you have any idea how hard it is to own an automatic weapon it is in the US?.

I'm thinking much easier than in Switzerland since they have banned them.

They have very strick gun laws and the make up of their country is very different then the US and that's more the reason for their gun violence rates.

Their country is also different from, lets say, Germany. And Germany doesn't have constant mass shootings either. The common denominator for low gun violence in developed countries is strict gun laws.

The idea that you think guns are like toys to anyone tells how much you know about guns and the US.

I'm open to some minor changes in gun law like red flag. But before that I want the laws we have enforced and more criminal control.

No I didn't say "guns are like toys". I said your behaviour regarding gun ownership and rights is baby-like. Nothing bad will happen to you if you have strict gun laws. Your ego will be hurt and you'll throw a tantrum, but that's it.
 
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Is there a correlation between how many people in America are pumped up on big pharma drugs, specifically anti depressants, vs. how many people are on them in other countries?

I don't know. But that question would only be relevant if the large majority of mass shooters in the US were on anti depressants.
 
The comment was about risk. Not about comparing driving to guns.

And it's nonsense, since vehicles are a necessary risk. A modern society cannot function without transportation. The same cannot be said about guns, since most developed countries have strict gun laws. It's a false analogy.

You post this junk and have the nerve to critique my comments?

LOL how is it junk? Why do you think you're here in this thread? Because a bad guy owned guns.
 
In civil unrest or societal collapse a few guns aren't saving your child. US citizens are no safer than any other countries when it comes to government takeover. A tank rolling through your neighborhood isn't going to be turned back by some fat 50 year old with a handgun

You're right about handguns, which is why they should be banned and rifles should be protected (and why rifles are targeted by the government and not handguns).

You're wrong about everything else. Learn your history. You're point about it being impossible to fight military invasion with just infantry weapons has been proven wrong consistently over the past 20 years.

I agree that the fat weekend warriors, gun nuts are embarrassing. But keep in mind, that If shit hit the fan most of the fighting men wouldn't be fat 50 year olds, they'd be trained AWAL soldiers who would use their personal weapons to steal those tanks and other ordinance. And they could use a militia of well armed infantry behind them.

As for the usefulness of arms during civil unrest or societal collapse, it's nonsensical to say it wouldn't matter. Of course it would. This is the scenario that is most likely. There is no way an unarmed group would have any say in that world.

Rooftop Koreans FTW:
roof-koreans-civilians-defended-koreatown-racist-violence-la-riots-1992-4.jpg
 
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I don't know. But that question would only be relevant if the large majority of mass shooters in the US were on anti depressants.

Yeah I don't know the answer to that but I wouldn't doubt it if it was true.

Something has changed in the last 30 years and anti depressants are definitely one thing that weren't nearly as prevalent 30+ years ago.

But then again it more than likely takes a depressed person to go and do something like that so the correlation might not quite be there. What makes me think it's possible is the fact that we've always had depressed people but we haven't always had mass shootings like this. Depressed people + anti depressants that send them over the edge could potentially be a cause.
 
How is it even legal to buy a silencer? What civilian purpose does a silencer have other than quietly murdering someone?

That shit is hilarious.

- We cant buy here. Also cant buy bulletproof vests.
We vsn buy the vest, but not the plaque
 
(1) The Communists in the Vietnam War had full armed forces on their side, not just the Viet Cong.

9781472823540.jpg


(2) The Taliban in Afghanistan didn't just have semi automatic rifles but machine guns of all calibres, explosives, RPGs, antitank rifles, mortars etc. The VC were even better equipped.

ba80fb34-e7c9-11eb-ae62-001543f36ea0_1627825618708_1627825653942.jpg


(3) You can't just 'steal a tank', like you might a car, and use it, it takes months of training for the crew (usually four people) to be effective. This applies to other military hardware.

(4) Comparing wars thousands of miles away, in poor, third world countries, to the force the US government could bring to bear on its own soil is like comparing how much you can lift with one arm to how much you can lift using your whole body.

Gun-Nut-Drone.jpg
 
I'm thinking much easier than in Switzerland since they have banned them.



Their country is also different from, lets say, Germany. And Germany doesn't have constant mass shootings either. The common denominator for low gun violence in developed countries is strict gun laws.



No I didn't say "guns are like toys". I said your behaviour regarding gun ownership and rights is baby-like. Nothing bad will happen to you if you have strict gun laws. Your ego will be hurt and you'll throw a tantrum, but that's it.

Bullshit as usual you know nothing about the US and I quoted the number of times guns are used in self defense. You ignore that.
 
Is there a correlation between how many people in America are pumped up on big pharma drugs, specifically anti depressants, vs. how many people are on them in other countries?

A few years ago, the Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development (OECD) looked at antidepressant use in 25 countries and found something startling.

In every single country the OECD looked at, antidepressant use was on the rise.

In Germany, antidepressant use had risen 46% in just four years. In Spain and Portugal, it rose about 20% during the same period. Iceland led the pack in overall use with about one in ten people taking a daily antidepressant — but that figure may underestimate the actual rate of use, since that calculation isn't restricted to just adults.

The United States was not included in the OECD analysis (we've added it to the chart below), but if it had been, it would knock Iceland out of the top spot: 11% of Americans over the age of 12 take an antidepressant.

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It's difficult to say exactly what the data tell us.

Antidepressant use is not an accurate window into rates of depression. Instead, the popularity of antidepressants in a given country is the result of a complicated mix of depression rates, stigma, wealth, health coverage, and availability of treatment.

In the United States, for example, only about a third of people with severe depression take an antidepressant. In South Korea, where antidepressant use is the lowest among the countries analyzed, the suicide rate is the highest in the developed world. Koreans are much likelier than Americans to see mental illness as a personal weakness, research has shown, which means many never seek treatment.

According to a review of the research on depression in Nordic countries, Iceland's unusually high antidepressant use is "a result of their perceived effectiveness by users, but also an effect of limited access to alternative treatment like psychotherapy." The rising rate of antidepressant usage there, however, has not been tied to any decrease in suicide rate or disability due to depression.

In fact, the review notes, "the increase in antidepressants consumption has spurred an ongoing debate [about] whether antidepressants are overprescribed (medicalization) or underprescribed (poor access to treatment)."

The OECD suggests two possible reasons the rate of antidepressant consumption is on the rise in so many countries. The course of treatment lasts longer than it used to, and antidepressants are now prescribed not only for severe depression, but also for mild depression, anxiety, social phobia, and more.

Spending long periods of time on antidepressants actually aligns with international guidelines for treatment. The World Health Organization recommends that people continue taking antidepressants at least nine to 12 months after they've recovered. (It acknowledges, however, that the evidence supporting that recommendation is "moderate;" more research is needed.)

Among Americans, 60% of people taking antidepressants have been taking them for at least two years; 14% have taken them for 10 years or more. That seems to match the WHO's guidance, but it hides a larger, more difficult-to-solve problem.

Less than a third of Americans taking an antidepressant have actually had an appointment with a mental health professional within the past year, suggesting a critical weakness in a system where medication is widely available — often prescribed by primary care physicians — but holistic mental healthcare and frequent monitoring are not.

https://www.businessinsider.com/countries-largest-antidepressant-drug-users-2016-2
 
(1) The Communists in the Vietnam War had full armed forces on their side, not just the Viet Cong.

9781472823540.jpg


(2) The Taliban in Afghanistan didn't just have semi automatic rifles but machine guns of all calibres, explosives, RPGs, antitank rifles, mortars etc. The VC were even better equipped.

ba80fb34-e7c9-11eb-ae62-001543f36ea0_1627825618708_1627825653942.jpg


(3) You can't just 'steal a tank', like you might a car, and use it, it takes months of training for the crew (usually four people) to be effective. This applies to other military hardware.

(4) Comparing wars thousands of miles away, in poor, third world countries, to the force the US government could bring to bear on its own soil is like comparing how much you can lift with one arm to how much you can lift using your whole body.

Gun-Nut-Drone.jpg

Our last civil war kind of showed this is wrong.

Most in the north though it would be over in a week because the south had no standing army.

Then 4 years of hell on earth happens.

Why do you think it would be any different in a civil war now.
 
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