NEVER give a dime to De La Riva ever again

[Lord Coke]

I am pretty uncomfortable taking this allegation at face value or even calling what she is describing as assault. Even in her version of events, she let him come over to her home and did not say anything when he made his advance. Even if there was some argument that an assault has been alleged, there is no reason her recollection is accurate. Memories change. Even if she legitimately remembers what she experienced as assault that does not mean that an assault occurred. Did she think at the time he wanted to pursue a relationship and found out that was not the case? Did she otherwise regret the incident after the fact? Those and many other things can lead to bitterness that clouds and distorts memories. Remember she eventually went to another school i.e. she did not immediately leave. And the above is being charitable towards her. She could easily have a monetary motive to attack Riva. Let's give Riva the chance to defend himself at a bare minimum before casting judgement.

 

[Lord Coke]

Weird, it says you are quoting me, but this is nothing I posted.

Kforcer its been to long i had no idea you were still posting. Come to the war room sometime. I am still with Baret. Someday you have to come visit us.

 

[yetanother]

She could easily have a fiduciary motive to attack Riva.. Let's give Riva the chance to defend himself at a bare minimum before casting judgement.

His response is some PR bullshit that to me makes him look super guilty.

 

[yetanother]

Do I have to stop using his guard too?

No just instead of suporting some old piece of shit maybe spend your seminar money on some upcoming competitior who has more skills anyway?

 

[Balto]

Sure you know, but I didn't and I bet many many others are the same. BJJ is not like tennis where female stars are as well known as male stars. It's closer to the NBA/WNBA.


Continuing along those lines, I think a hypothetical accusation by Sharapova would get the same press and belief as a hypothetical accusation by Federer about a mythical daughter. Maybe you don't and that's fair. But that's the parallel analogy not BJ or Claudia.

Fair enough. I think we are agreeing that women speaking out in BJJ get discounted vs a man of the similar level of achievement, regardless of our speculations as to the exact mechanism why.

 

[Balto]

FloGrappling actually has an article up where the quote her description of situation.
They post his response but it looks so fake it actually makes him look more guilty.

I saw that.

I was pleasantly surprised that FloGrappling chose to even cover it. In the past, they have elected to completely ignore these issues. They usually do it with some half ass reasoning that they don't like to highlight negative stuff, etc. As I said before, things seem to be changing slowly. I am glad FloGrappling changed for the better here.

I get why they would post De La Riva's response as well. He needs to address this, and he deserves a chance to defend himself.

But I also agree with you that De La Riva's response came off very poorly. It is extremely legalistic, vague, and non committal on just about everything. I know it is still early and he will likely end up saying more than that, but that was not a good start.

 

[Balto]

Hear wat you’re saying but ironically bringing up BJ of all people? Really ? The dude who got accused himself of being a multiple time scumbag with women himself ? Please . So yeah we agree that the bar is higher for criminal cases and lower for court of public opinion .

The irony is not lost on me. I bring it up because it's the earliest case of this I can remember in my experience.

If anything the irony seems to illustrate how different the two bars are. We do agree on that point.

 

[esteven]

The irony is not lost on me. I bring it up because it's the earliest case of this I can remember in my experience.

If anything the irony seems to illustrate how different the two bars are. We do agree on that point.

I think very few people commenting actually listened to the interview.

 

[JagRoss]

Personally I am not sure how to approach these situations.

I think the story seems credible.
I believe one should be considered innocent until proven guilty.
There is no evidence that I have seen.

I know that it is difficult to tell if someone is lying (broadly).
People's eyewitness testimonies are notoriously unreliable.
I do take into account my perception of someone's story, but I don't weigh it very heavily, because I have been in situations where people have lied to my face, and I couldn't tell if they were lying (for certain).

In this situation, I have no choice to make.
I am not affiliated with De La Riva, or any of his schools.
I wasn't planning to attend any of his seminars, or buy any of his products.

But if I was?

If I was affiliated with him, I think I would keep the affiliation.
If some type of hard evidence came out, or the story was corroborated, then I would reconsider.

 

[Calibur]

So we going back to calling it Jello Guard?

 

[kenetics]

I saw that.

I was pleasantly surprised that FloGrappling chose to even cover it. In the past, they have elected to completely ignore these issues. They usually do it with some half ass reasoning that they don't like to highlight negative stuff, etc. As I said before, things seem to be changing slowly. I am glad FloGrappling changed for the better here.

I get why they would post De La Riva's response as well. He needs to address this, and he deserves a chance to defend himself.

But I also agree with you that De La Riva's response came off very poorly. It is extremely legalistic, vague, and non committal on just about everything. I know it is still early and he will likely end up saying more than that, but that was not a good start.

Flo has been creating dram lately... Their becoming TMZ of the bjj world sadly.

 

[yetanother]

But I also agree with you that De La Riva's response came off very poorly. It is extremely legalistic, vague, and non committal on just about everything.

He is bragging how great he is rather then denying everything. Exactly I would expect some guilty narcissistic asshat to do.

 

[ijustwannasurf]

So we going back to calling it Jello Guard?

Outside Spiral.

 

[Peteyandjia]

Outside Spiral.

I like this. Less rapey, & it sounds cooler too.

 

[ens189]

I don't think the situations are analogous.

In the case of Ralph Gracie being a criminal who assaults people, if BJ had said Ralph was a rapist that would've been less believable. It's a small jump for a guy who trains MMA for a living to go around beating up people. We all know people like that, especially if we trained jiujitsu back then. Rapist is different. Big claims and big evidence.


On the second analogy, the analogy isn't parallel either. Claudia Doval isn't famous or well known, even though she may be a world champion. The parallel analogy isn't a famous male grappler's daughter , it's some lesser known purple belt champions daughter.


I think your point about the knowing person making the accusation mattering is certainly true. Michelle Niciolini, Mackenzie Dern, Gabi or somebody like that making this type of accusation would be bigger. Until then it's somebody I never heard of saying something about somebody I know nothing about (except professionally, barely) and have no investment in. If that kind of thing moved a needle every time it's happened, you wouldn't have time for ending else in your life. I don't need this to believe in the importance of investigating sexual assault.

She has 166k followers on IG and is one of the most recognizable figures in all of BJJ right now. You're a god damned moron.

 

[ens189]

You shouldn't compare the woman to a predator like Almeida.

Back this up immediately.

 

[Os3y3ris]

Back this up immediately.

He's a Barra exec. They like to scam you and then play victim when you do or say something about it.

 

[rmongler]

it's not something you would want to invent.

Status consciousness is a rosetta stone that lurks in the background of all socially mediated behavior. Folks who know the game can start to notice the patterns, hella incentive to want such things.

It's a weapon you can use to hurt those who you feel or have come to feel negatively about. And at very little risk to yourself as well. Even if some people come to believe you have been proved wrong, or never believed you meritorious in the first place, there will be others who say 'even if they were wrong, even if they were in bad faith, we need to take accusations like this seriously/they are of a demographic we need to give the privilege of greater regard'. Even if nothing definite comes of it one way or another, the 'miasma' of the episode itself will still stick to your target. The process is the punishment.

Big upside if it pays off, little down side if it doesn't. That's the kind of gamble you can take any day, and twice on sunday.

The human organism has fine tuned senses for feeling which way the winds are really blowing in such matters, they can tell the score, even if only on an instinctual level. No matter what happens, if you are the right kind of person, you've always got that in your back pocket, something you can pull out to flip the table, if you don't like the way things are going.

 

[dimmyfinster]

She has 166k followers on IG and is one of the most recognizable figures in all of BJJ right now. You're a god damned moron.

Gordon Ryan has 8x the views on bjjheroes.com. Rafa 5x.
Claudia do Val has around the same number of views of Michael Liera Jr. who is recognizable only to hard core BJJ players.

And on here, if you search "Gordon" for thread titles in the grappling forum, you get pages and pages.
If you search "Liera" you still get a handful.

If you search "Claudia" or "do val" or whatever, you get zero.
If you search for maybe the greatest BJJ female player of all time, "Bia" or "mesquita", you get two.

Almost nobody talks about women's BJJ. At least nobody on this forum, and the search function is proof.

Fair enough. I think we are agreeing that women speaking out in BJJ get discounted vs a man of the similar level of achievement, regardless of our speculations as to the exact mechanism why.

I"m not quite saying that. I"m saying at the top level, the statements of the male get magnified because of the relative fame of the two sports. This is not some sinister anti-female thing, but rather the effects of fame.

You could eliminate this factor by taking it down to the club level, where nobody knows anybody. In this case, I'm not sure I'd agree with your hypothetical . That is, is random white belt female who makes an accusation of groping less believed than random white belt who says his daughter was groped? Asking by the club across town who has no stake in anybody?

I'm not sure that's the case. Again, maybe you or somebody else thinks it is the case, and that's OK. Just make the apples to apples comparison.

 

[Balto]

I"m not quite saying that. I"m saying at the top level, the statements of the male get magnified because of the relative fame of the two sports. This is not some sinister anti-female thing, but rather the effects of fame.

But you're saying they aren't famous just because they are female. Then they get discounted because they "aren't famous" enough, even if they are literally the #1 female competitor in the world at the moment. You equated that accomplishment to the clout of a lesser known purple belt male champion.

I didn't say it was sinister. I just said it is what it is. There is a massive power disparity in BJJ between men and women. You are not refuting what I am saying. You are just demonstrating how clear the disparity is.

The double standard is obvious. I have come to expect it by now, but it is obvious.