NEVER give a dime to De La Riva ever again

[yetanother]

Please stop going to his seminars and paying for training at his gym when travelling.

- Claudia Doval describing how she was molested when training at his gym.

 

[HunterAcosta]

Listen i don’t have to believe her . I don’t care how convincing she sounds . IF other women come forward with this or she has proof then maybe I’ll change mind. I’m not believing her just cause she’s a woman . If dude has rep like that , again maybe I’ll consider it . But to believe her cause “ female “ is asinine imo. Dude is entitled to defend himself . Hey Fellow sherdogger I was raped by your mother! Prove I wasn’t . See how difficult these cases are ?!

 

[yetanother]

Listen i don’t have to believe her . I don’t care how convincing she sounds . IF other women come forward with this or she has proof then maybe I’ll change mind. I’m not believing her just cause she’s a woman . If dude has rep like that , again maybe I’ll consider it . But to believe her cause “ female “ is asinine imo. Dude is entitled to defend himself . Hey Fellow sherdogger I was raped by your mother! Prove I wasn’t . See how difficult these cases are ?!

Are false accusations where the falsely accused guy wasn't a total piece of shit regardless common? Looked into some and it turned out most of them where scumbags trying to take advantage of super crazy girls. So the scumbags kind of deserved what they got.

 

[Peteyandjia]

I’ve trained with Claudia, I wouldn’t say I know her super well or anything, but she has always seemed to be a good person who treated people around her kindly & with respect. It’s hard to believe she would suddenly come out of nowhere and make up a crazy story with specifics. So to me, it seems like DLR was a scumbag to her. It’s trashy for an instructor, — married or not, though he was married — to show up at his female students’ houses who are half his age, and use the instructor/student power dynamic to leverage that into sexy time. It’s creepy, predatory shit.

All that said: I can’t actually say any of it was a fact, because I wasn’t there. There is a reason we humans had to come up with courts of law, it’s because we can’t just trust accusations & feelings & hunches we have as 100% facts.

I can only say having personally known Claudia, I would be beyond shocked if she were just lying about this. He seems like a creep at best, and probably worse.

This is also yet another example of why instructors really shouldn’t be going after their students sexually, it’s unprofessional at best, and really shits on the trust that should exist at the foundation of any dojo.

 

[yetanother]

This is also yet another example of why instructors really shouldn’t be going after their students sexually, it’s unprofessional at best, and really shits on the trust that should exist at the foundation of any dojo.

It's super lame when guys do that and expect to be given any respect as a coach.

 

[HunterAcosta]

Are false accusations where the falsely accused guy wasn't a total piece of shit regardless common? Looked into some and it turned out most of them where scumbags trying to take advantage of super crazy girls. So the scumbags kind of deserved what they got.

Granted but the system , civil and criminal is full of guys railroaded by chicks. I personally have been in a situation like that of which I was accused of some shit and was innocent ( never went to court ) but she Wes bipolar bat shit crazy and have known few friends too who I believe them when they tell me of similar situations . Of course they could be lying and every women who criies rape is 100 correct but we know that’s not true . We don’t know what happened in that house . She may have had consensual sex that she later regretted. She may have had affair with him and was mad he didn’t leave wife . She may hsve even been raped. I don’t know and nobody knows who wasn’t there . Burden is on her to prove it not him to defend self otherwise people can accuse people of anything . Is your neighbor Muslim ? Imagine if you called cops and said they were terrorists . They should just go to jail cause you said so ? Fuck all that noise. System is set up to have your day in court if need be . But i get it . The court of public opinion doesn’t need irrefutable proof to condemn somebody and that’s fine to extent but can be dangerous slippery slope .

 

[Balto]

Damn this one hurts.

I trained with De La Riva a few times at seminars years back. He gave my coach his black belt. My coach stopped associating with him more than a decade ago but still he spoke of him fondly.

There is no excuse for this kind of behavior. I have been around long enough to know a lot of people will try to make excuses for it, but there are none. It is completely unacceptable for a coach to act in this manner.

The only silver lining I can find in this is that at least we have finally reached the point where top women in the sport can speak out directly about this stuff. That's a big step forward from where we were even just five years ago.

 

[yetanother]

Granted but the system , civil and criminal is full of guys railroaded by chicks. I personally have been in a situation like that of which I was accused of some shit and was innocent ( never went to court ) but she Wes bipolar bat shit crazy and have known few friends too who I believe them when they tell me of similar situations .

There should be a better way to resolve baseless allegations. Like you should be able to get a formal declaration of innocence if it's something made up by a crazy person. OTOH for dudes who take advantage of crazy chicks I don't have any sympathy.

 

[Balto]

The court of public opinion doesn’t need irrefutable proof to condemn somebody and that’s fine to extent but can be dangerous slippery slope .

I don't think it's a slippery slope here though. This is just how we normally act when hearing credible negative anecdotes about people in the BJJ community. The only difference is when it's a woman saying it, for some reason (at least from what I have seen in the past), we try to ignore it.

The criminal standard of beyond a reasonable doubt is a high bar to clear. But for putting a man in a cage for potentially the rest of his life, that's the right bar to set. However, we aren't talking about putting De La Riva in prison for this. We are talking about adjusting our view of him accordingly. That is a different bar.

I've (unfortunately) seen by now several criminal cases in these situations resolve themselves. The last one I saw up close ended in a conviction. The evidence that it took to convict was three women coming forward about their rapes. There was a ton of digital evidence (resulted in 1000+ felony counts being filed) including actual videos of the rapes in progress. From the timestamps of the digital evidence + the ages of the parties involved, consent was not even litigated. It was statutory rape in all cases.

This guy was so screwed up, he even raped a dog. They found that in the digital evidence too. I can't make this up. They threw on a cruelty to animals type of charge due to that and convicted him on it too.

That is what it took to overcome the beyond a reasonable doubt bar. But again, when talking about criminal convictions and prison time specifically, that is the bar we have.

Adjusting our opinion of De La Riva after this account is a much lower bar. At least it normally is when it's something one man says about another man.

I remember when BJ left Ralph. He described in detail incidents that were criminal assault and battery. I recall people largely considering them credible based on BJ's account. The stories were largely he said/he said stories, but they were then factored in to Ralph's reputation.

What people did not do is demand BJ convict Ralph in a criminal court of law on the assault charges, etc. They held a different bar. And over the years, Ralph's reputation began to reflect these accounts. Especially after he assaulted Bobby Southworth at a tournament. Most especially after he assaulted Flavio Almeida at yet another.

None of us is putting De La Riva in prison for this. Some of us though may adjust our opinions accordingly. And it's a profound negative adjustment.

Personally my view of him is tainted by this. Maybe that will change in the future, but this was a pretty damning account so my view is negative right now. That's not just me believing Claudia purely because she is a woman. That is just me believing the credible, detailed, firsthand account of a well known BJJ competitor. Man or woman I would likely do the same.

We seem to have no issue with the he said/he said stuff in this community. I think anyone being honest with themselves who has been around BJJ for any length of time at all holds a lot of opinions on different figures primarily off he said/he said anecdotes.

Somehow the reaction seems different when it's he said/she said though. As I posted above, the only silver lining I can find is that I feel we've improved a lot on this over time.

 

[winterbike]

Suggestion I saw on Reddit: it's now called ''De La Rapist'' guard.

 

[Os3y3ris]

I don't think it's a slippery slope here though. This is just how we normally act when hearing credible negative anecdotes about people in the BJJ community. The only difference is when it's a woman saying it, for some reason (at least from what I have seen in the past), we try to ignore it.

The criminal standard of beyond a reasonable doubt is a high bar to clear. But for putting a man in a cage for potentially the rest of his life, that's the right bar to set. However, we aren't talking about putting De La Riva in prison for this. We are talking about adjusting our view of him accordingly. That is a different bar.

I've (unfortunately) seen by now several criminal cases in these situations resolve themselves. The last one I saw up close ended in a conviction. The evidence that it took to convict was three women coming forward about their rapes. There was a ton of digital evidence (resulted in 1000+ felony counts being filed) including actual videos of the rapes in progress. From the timestamps of the digital evidence + the ages of the parties involved, consent was not even litigated. It was statutory rape in all cases.

This guy was so screwed up, he even raped a dog. They found that in the digital evidence too. I can't make this up. They threw on a cruelty to animals type of charge due to that and convicted him on it too.

That is what it took to overcome the beyond a reasonable doubt bar. But again, when talking about criminal convictions and prison time specifically, that is the bar we have.

Adjusting our opinion of De La Riva after this account is a much lower bar. At least it normally is when it's something one man says about another man.

I remember when BJ left Ralph. He described in detail incidents that were criminal assault and battery. I recall people largely considering them credible based on BJ's account. The stories were largely he said/he said stories, but they were then factored in to Ralph's reputation.

What people did not do is demand BJ convict Ralph in a criminal court of law on the assault charges, etc. They held a different bar. And over the years, Ralph's reputation began to reflect these accounts. Especially after he assaulted Bobby Southworth at a tournament. Most especially after he assaulted Flavio Almeida at yet another.

None of us is putting De La Riva in prison for this. Some of us though may adjust our opinions accordingly. And it's a profound negative adjustment.

Personally my view of him is tainted by this. Maybe that will change in the future, but this was a pretty damning account so my view is negative right now. That's not just me believing Claudia purely because she is a woman. That is just me believing the credible, detailed, firsthand account of a well known BJJ competitor. Man or woman I would likely do the same.

We seem to have no issue with the he said/he said stuff in this community. I think anyone being honest with themselves who has been around BJJ for any length of time at all holds a lot of opinions on different figures primarily off he said/he said anecdotes.

Somehow the reaction seems different when it's he said/she said though. As I posted above, the only silver lining I can find is that I feel we've improved a lot on this over time.

You shouldn't compare the woman to a predator like Almeida.

 

[Cappy Goodtime]

I'm only gonna play inside position guards until this all gets worked out.

 

[Balto]

You shouldn't compare the woman to a predator like Almeida.

It's not a comparison in that way. I agree that the underlying situations are quite different.

The comparison was that when BJ Penn told us that Ralph liked to assault people, people generally put some weight behind BJ's account. Ralph had his defenders, but over the years, it became clear that BJ was telling the truth.

Before that, it was just he said/he said type of stories.

People jokingly accusing each other of rape in posts here and then saying "See how easy that was?" are being ridiculous and they know it. This is not some random lighthearted accusation but rather someone who we know trained there, left under strange circumstances, and is now telling her side.

When it's a man doing it another man, we largely tend to believe the account. Everyone I know at least factors it in seriously. That is probably because there is not a gain to making up these stories, and most of the time they end up being true.

I'd say that the vast majority of what people think about others in BJJ is not based on personal experience but rather what another trusted source told them about their experiences. How many people do each of us really know closely? It's not many. But when someone credible says that another did him wrong, everyone I know factors that in quite a bit. That's just how we normally operate. There are plenty of guys I won't associate with because there are credible stories out there of them acting wrong.

My point is that all of a sudden when it's a woman doing this, we pull out an entirely different standard. If this was a male famous competitor leaving a male famous coach and telling us about scumbag behavior, we would not demand it was proven in a court of a law first. It would just be plastered all over FloGrappling without editing as a firsthand account. And we would just update our perceptions accordingly.

 

[yetanother]

/
My point is that all of a sudden when it's a woman doing this, we pull out an entirely different standard.

I assume there is some push back because a narrative that the women is 100% right is being pushed by some.

 

[Solidus Snake]

I think that if you hold authority/power/whatever over somebody, not to mention being this older too, you are playing with fire in trying to hook up or find casual sex, regardless of how things really went in this specific case.

 

[Balto]

I assume there is some push back because a narrative that the women is 100% right is being pushed by some.

That is not what I am seeing.

I already said a lot on this. There is not too much more for me to say.

I have been in BJJ about 16 years now. Ever since the beginning, I've seen these types of stories come out about various instructors. When it's been a man saying it, they've been generally believed (not 100% believed but at least seriously factored in).

That's why I took it all the way back to BJ and Ralph. Because when I started in 2004, that was one of the first stories like this I remember. And back then, people believed BJ about Ralph's behavioral tendencies. I know I did. I didn't know that 15 years later there'd be criminal charges filed over another such incident, but that's how it turned out. I just generally believed BJ back then because I knew he trained there, he was respected, a lot of people in the community vouched for BJ being reliable, and why would he lie?

What I see in some of the responses is the obvious discounting of a female competitor's side because she is a female. It's hardly the first time I have seen this. I expect it 100%, but it is still disappointing.

The silver lining I even talked about is because at least now it is said publicly directly by the female. In the past, females were too scared to even say such things publicly because they knew how bad the reaction would be. Males never had this problem and ever since I have been training, there have been plenty of "what really went down" stories over people leaving their instructors.

This is a horrible situation. The best thing I can find in it is that at least now we've gotten to a point where it can even be said by a famous female competitor directly. Even five years ago, I do not think that would have happened.

 

[yetanother]

What I see in some of the responses is the obvious discounting of a female competitor's side because she is a female. It's hardly the first time I have seen this. I expect it 100%, but it is still disappointing.

Do you belive

I believe her story because it's not something you would want to invent.
If she is not doing a false accusation on purpose the only other option is that she is completely crazy but nobody is pointing that out yet.
I didn't believe the Brett Kavanaugh accusations without real proof because the seemed exactly like something you would invent by someone that it made sense for to make a false accusation.

 

[Balto]

Every situation is different. We naturally factor in a lot of stuff when we are forming an opinion on someone from such accounts.

What I can't shake is the feeling that if this was instead a male competitor that trained under De La Riva telling the same type of story, the reaction would be far different. What if this interview was instead a famous and connected male competitor talking about De La Riva, and the events recounted were what happened to his daughter when she visited the academy to train?

After this many years, such a question is rhetorical. I already know the answer. And it makes me sad.

But there's been some positive change in the years so maybe there is more positive change to come.

 

[yetanother]

What if this interview was instead a famous and connected male competitor talking about De La Riva, and the events recounted were what happened to his daughter when she visited the academy to train?.

If a famous female competitor was telling that story about her daughter I don't think there would be a lot of difference if a male competitor was telling that story about his daughter.

 

[Balto]

If a famous female competitor was telling that story about her daughter I don't think there would be a lot of difference if a male competitor was telling that story about his daughter.

I don't think so. I guess we differ on that.