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Which model of Ring to Cage is a Winning clone? Thanks!
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Thanks!
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Opinions on Boon/Windy/Ring2Cage?
I'm looking for MT padwork gloves either 10-12oz and would be curious to know about the differences people have found, as they're a lot less talked about than Fairtex/Twins/Yokkao
I'm looking for MT padwork gloves either 10-12oz and would be curious to know about the differences people have found, as they're a lot less talked about than Fairtex/Twins/Yokkao
My Boon 16 oz's are my favorite all around glove. However I have some Boon 10oz's and they have a tiny hand compartment. Literally hard to get my hand in with wraps and I have fairly small hands. Just FYI.
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New glove time and just bought my first pair of Hit n Move All Day Balance @ 16oz.
Seemed to be a lot of positive stuff around these as good quality training/sparring gloves that both protect hands well but provide pop on the bag at a good price point - I paid £200 which was coming in cheaper than Reyes, RIvals Guerrero and the italian-made Superares which were the main competitors I looked at
Seemed to be a lot of positive stuff around these as good quality training/sparring gloves that both protect hands well but provide pop on the bag at a good price point - I paid £200 which was coming in cheaper than Reyes, RIvals Guerrero and the italian-made Superares which were the main competitors I looked at
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Some how i managed to piss off Kazumichi at Winning USA. He no longer responds to me. So this helps a lot. I'm on the verge of giving up altogether on Winning though. Just not worth the hassle.
UPDATE: Winning USA got back to me and accused me of some ish I didn't even say. I tried winningglovesglobal and no response after 24 hours. I think I'm done with Winning - selling the same product for over 20 years, no innovations, not even real leather, the availability keeps going down, and the prices keep going up - on top of the worst customer service experience in recent memory.
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Bought some Winning MS600 from Kazumichi, just had to wait one month. No problem at all, everything went smoothly. And Winning do change their product. My MS-600 that I bought 7years ago are different that the one I just received. The new one are more snugged, less pillowy. I actually think that they are a little bit too stiff for Winning which have a very soft reputation. The shape of the thumb is also different, little bit thinner that before, the tag is different too. Leather is real, the headgear are synthetic to be lighter, and they are incredibly light. At the end some little change, but nothing major, which is perfect because those gloves are perfect. People think that Winning is awesome because of the sensation. But they are not. They are very durable, and they are very reliable. You know each time you put your glove that your hands are safe and that you'll not hurt them no matter what happen. And that is priceless.
I don't know what you say to Kazumichi to piss him off, but very good experience for me. For the delay and the price, Winning seems to have make the choice to not become a huge factory that make product like Everlast or Rival and to continue to hand made their gloves and to have a very good quality control, so there is a lot of delay because the demands is very high, and when the demands is higher than the offer, price tends to rise. America seems to be pissed off with basic capitalism, ready to switch to socialism apparently
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I'd ordered from him before. Have spent hundreds and hundreds of dollars with him. Directed people to his site since 2008. Thought we had a good rapport. Messaged him asking about backorder times. Told him i saw really long backorder times on other sites like WJapan and I wanted to know if the backorder times on the Winning USA site were still accurate (which are 3 or 4 months currently depending on color). He flipped out on me, typing in all caps "NEVER ask me about WJapan again, SAYONARA". I apologized stating that wasn't my intention, he sent me back a copy of my mail. About 5 hours later someone else from Winning USA wrote me back and accused me of asking about another company's inventory. The thing is, I never asked about WJapan. I only asked about their own backorder times. I speak, read, and write Japanese so I've really been considering taking them to task, because that is NOT how Japanese companies do customer service. Absolutely horrible. Done sending money to that cranky old man. Should really improve his English comprehension if he's going to be flipping out on customers.
FWIW - the Winnings I ordered in 2015 are exactly like what I'm seeing at the gym, so I have no idea what you had 8 years ago, but that statement doesn't jive with my experience.
Call me a socialist if you want. I'm done pretending Winning are actually good gloves.
On their website they put limitations of orders and prices. I think they realized that some companies were doing some huge orders to have some stocks to sell gloves at a higher prices, and it was fucking with their own customers orders. They must be under thousands of emails asking for gloves every weeks. That the consequences of success!
Winning gloves are different since years ago, it's just little details, nothing major:
Thumb is different in shape (blue is new, black is old):
The border on the font is black on the new gloves, no border on the old one:
And the new tag:
And the padding is stiffer than before, which I guess will be softer after few rounds. But the older where very very soft directly outside of the box. Saying that Winning are not good gloves because you had some bad email from their service is a little exigerated. I tried almost all the brands, and I always come back to Winning, even if I don't particulary like their design. It's the only gloves that keep my hands pain free training after training... The closest I found are the Adidas Adispeed, which I recommand to everybody that do not want to spend too much money. But the inner lining is too loose and I dont very like it, but it's a minor point.
Winning gloves are different since years ago, it's just little details, nothing major:
Thumb is different in shape (blue is new, black is old):
The border on the font is black on the new gloves, no border on the old one:
And the new tag:
And the padding is stiffer than before, which I guess will be softer after few rounds. But the older where very very soft directly outside of the box. Saying that Winning are not good gloves because you had some bad email from their service is a little exigerated. I tried almost all the brands, and I always come back to Winning, even if I don't particulary like their design. It's the only gloves that keep my hands pain free training after training... The closest I found are the Adidas Adispeed, which I recommand to everybody that do not want to spend too much money. But the inner lining is too loose and I dont very like it, but it's a minor point.
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Mine were definitely more like your gloves on the right, but I don't remember the black outline on the numbers (my pair was black - I can check this weekend).
See, price gouging may be in unregulated capitalism, but regulated capitalism is the only thing that works so far.
And Winning distributors are definitely price gouging.
This is the winning price in Japan (from this year's Winning catalog on the official Japanese page):
Japanese exchange rate is 150Y to the dollar.
Means these gloves should be under $300, but these distributors are having insane markup.
While it might be hyperbole, there is some truth to what I said.
For me, they're not good gloves. I'm not just balking at the price or the wait times.
I don't like the fit, I don't like the leather, I don't like the wrist support, and I just don't like how they perform.
They were absolutely terrible on the bags I used.
Kept them around for years as sparring gloves, but that was just trying to get money out of an expensive purchase more than actually liking the product.
Tried to use them for anything but sparring many times over those years, but they underperformed for me.
This entire issue I'm on about is because I was trying to see if maybe my last pair were defective, because I couldn't get over how overrated they are.
I sold those gloves and the guy I sold them to doesn't even use them or like them (he bought them from me when his winning 14s split the length of the cuff).
There's always so much peer pressure from people to get them, especially for me being from Japan, so I decided to give it another shot.
While trying to give them another chance, I run into this situation.
For me, definitely not worth the hassle, definitely not worth the inflated price, definitely not worth the long wait, and definitely not worth the rudeness.
Customer choice very much IS capitalism.
I can get a better glove experience that suits me better from other brands without all the nonsense.
I'm not buying into the peer pressure anymore. I don't have to like them. I'm not going to be clowned for pointing out that the gloves I bought from them underperformed.
It was definitely hyperbole in response to being accused of preferring socialism.
See, price gouging may be in unregulated capitalism, but regulated capitalism is the only thing that works so far.
And Winning distributors are definitely price gouging.
This is the winning price in Japan (from this year's Winning catalog on the official Japanese page):
Japanese exchange rate is 150Y to the dollar.
Means these gloves should be under $300, but these distributors are having insane markup.
While it might be hyperbole, there is some truth to what I said.
For me, they're not good gloves. I'm not just balking at the price or the wait times.
I don't like the fit, I don't like the leather, I don't like the wrist support, and I just don't like how they perform.
They were absolutely terrible on the bags I used.
Kept them around for years as sparring gloves, but that was just trying to get money out of an expensive purchase more than actually liking the product.
Tried to use them for anything but sparring many times over those years, but they underperformed for me.
This entire issue I'm on about is because I was trying to see if maybe my last pair were defective, because I couldn't get over how overrated they are.
I sold those gloves and the guy I sold them to doesn't even use them or like them (he bought them from me when his winning 14s split the length of the cuff).
There's always so much peer pressure from people to get them, especially for me being from Japan, so I decided to give it another shot.
While trying to give them another chance, I run into this situation.
For me, definitely not worth the hassle, definitely not worth the inflated price, definitely not worth the long wait, and definitely not worth the rudeness.
Customer choice very much IS capitalism.
I can get a better glove experience that suits me better from other brands without all the nonsense.
I'm not buying into the peer pressure anymore. I don't have to like them. I'm not going to be clowned for pointing out that the gloves I bought from them underperformed.
It was just a joke about socialism, since apparently lot of people in USA seems to discover it and think it could be a good solution right now.
Anyway about the Winning it's surprising that you hate them that much. I hurt my hands and my wrist in the past, and Winning do the best job at making it possible for me to continue boxing. But I would prefer having some Rival or other better design brands. Sometime I hit the bag with lighter and more dense gloves because the sensation are better, but my knuckles are hurting very fast. For sparring I really like Winning, and overall they perform well. Again not the best in all categories, but the best at doing everything right. I got my old pair for 250€ years ago, and it was a good price since they last so long. This time I had to pay 400€ for them, well it's a bit painful, but if they last me 6/8years, I guess it's still worth it.
Anyway about the Winning it's surprising that you hate them that much. I hurt my hands and my wrist in the past, and Winning do the best job at making it possible for me to continue boxing. But I would prefer having some Rival or other better design brands. Sometime I hit the bag with lighter and more dense gloves because the sensation are better, but my knuckles are hurting very fast. For sparring I really like Winning, and overall they perform well. Again not the best in all categories, but the best at doing everything right. I got my old pair for 250€ years ago, and it was a good price since they last so long. This time I had to pay 400€ for them, well it's a bit painful, but if they last me 6/8years, I guess it's still worth it.
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My suspicion for my old pair was that the inner most layer of memory foam wasn't positioned correctly. The longer the workouts went, the more hand pain I felt. The wrist support was supbar compared to what I'm used to and the thumb position was not comfortable. Again, I was willing to spend money to update that opinion, but I'm kind of done with giving them the benefit of the doubt.
Something I always wonder about the wrist support: how it supposed to work?
For me the wrist support come from handwraps. Inside your glove, your wrist is not under the velcro or the laces, it is above those. All those stupid youtube's videos when they talk about wrist support closing the velcro on their forearm... It's like really? Are you that stupid? Winning are well balanced gloves and that what you can do about it. The Rival RS11V with the "wrist technology angle" is a joke. The only thing you can have for your wrist is a lot of padding behind and in front of the gloves where your wrist and your forearm are for stabilisation. But personally, I prefer to add a short handwrap to secure the wrist if I need to on top of the normal handwrap, and having the room inside the glove to do so.
And if the glove is not well balanced or well shape, you can damage your wrist.
For me the wrist support come from handwraps. Inside your glove, your wrist is not under the velcro or the laces, it is above those. All those stupid youtube's videos when they talk about wrist support closing the velcro on their forearm... It's like really? Are you that stupid? Winning are well balanced gloves and that what you can do about it. The Rival RS11V with the "wrist technology angle" is a joke. The only thing you can have for your wrist is a lot of padding behind and in front of the gloves where your wrist and your forearm are for stabilisation. But personally, I prefer to add a short handwrap to secure the wrist if I need to on top of the normal handwrap, and having the room inside the glove to do so.
And if the glove is not well balanced or well shape, you can damage your wrist.
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I'm more likely to roll my wrist than to hurt my knuckles, regardless of the padding type.
Too much wrist flexion in a glove is a big no-no for me.
I wouldn't say lace up Winnings are the worst at this or necessarily bad, just not as good as I prefer.
I don't think any case for wrist support can be made for velcro Winnings (reason below).
A snug Grant or Casanova glove can be really eye opening for how much wrist support they provide.
With lace ups, this isn't the case for me. The top lace usually comes up to mid-palm for me, so the laces definitely cover the length of my wrist. But the padding of the glove & the structure it provides are still real important.
With velcro gloves it's different, I agree with you there: it's more about the stiffness of the glove around the base of the palm to the top of the wrist strap. The wrist strap on velcro is more about securing the glove tightly so it doesn't shift (at least for me). With velcro, the padding on the palm side of the glove provides more of that structure - so without that padding, the wrist support is almost nonexistent.
I agree with this too. I have much better ability to make contact with my knuckles in certain gloves vs others. IMF gloves and Everlast are probably the 2 worst gloves for me to be able to land properly with my knuckles.
For what it's worth, I don't like Rivals either.
I wrap very much a "puncher's wrap" - not a ton of wrap over the knuckles, almost all of it goes to supporting my wrists - running back and forth from wrist to knuckles.
I never have the kind of room in 16oz gloves anymore to double wrap.
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New toys.
Can't wait to use them.
If I had to compare them to anything, it would be Grants, but more snug and better padding (than their old latex).
Can't wait to use them.
If I had to compare them to anything, it would be Grants, but more snug and better padding (than their old latex).
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It's a sleeker New SportingNew toys.
Can't wait to use them.
If I had to compare them to anything, it would be Grants, but more snug and better padding (than their old latex).
Which Rivals have you tried brother? It's not their most expensive gloves, but the RS1 is a masterpiece. The Intellishock Guerrero's are nice too. RB50 are nice too, just not the ergo strap. I want to try the Guerrero Sparring glove next, in the H line, I forgot the other letters. HDE? HDF?
I like the ergo ice of Rival and the amazing wrist support of the RS1. I have the 18 oz, obviously extremely well padded and I can still feel knuckle connection in every punch from the excellent hand positioning.
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For real. My New Sporting 16oz hybrids weighed 20oz each. These are very close to 16. 2nd workout in the books with these and they make me feel dangerous.
I definitely owe Rival another shot. Only pair I have from them are RB20 Elite Bag gloves with the Ergo Strap that I got on fire sale clearance a while back. Even my friends who like Rival say my pair are some of the worst gloves they've ever tried. lol
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Not sure how I feel about these. I only played with them for a little bit. Not a review, but some random thoughts: The only thing aspect of these that reminds me of Winning is the shape. The leather, liner, and materials feels a bit like standard Title gloves. The striking surface, a bit like Winning, seems to focus on my foreknuckes rather than my big knuckles, and this might be why i'm not thrilled with the wrist protection with either of them (because I practically have to roll my own wrist to strike properly). Will probably hold onto them as sparring gloves. I wanna get more input from local friends who are more familiar with Winning16s to get a better idea of the differences.
