Review: Ring to Cage Winning MS-600 Clones

Im not young and its not like i dont have respect for the ladies. Has nothing to do with that. But it has everything to do with a gyms stigma and the ambience there.

I didnt want to turn it into a my gym is perfect everyone is equal. That is 100% bs. Like i said i know there are good female fighters. Hell some might be pro. Thats great. But the minute a guy drops her with a well placed straight right he will be crucified. It probably wouldnt even be at full power either. I dont care how good the female fighter is, if a well placed shot from an inexperienced fighter lands on her chin she is going down. Then what? Oops? Good job? No, he will pretty much be labeled as a woman beater. And asked why was he going so hard to begin with? When in all reality he may have slipped her jab and caught her blindly with a right hand or a left hook. Men and women have different upperbody strength, thats been proven.

As far as younger guys are concerned, if they start cracking you just return the firepower. Sparring is for learning purposes, if they are going for a KO to look cool im going to protect myself. If that means i need to throw a left hook to the liver near 100% or an uppercut to the breadbasket so be it. Young guys are always looking to impress. I wont be a victim of that.

Im 32, ive been around, seen alot. And i try to avoid bad situations. All im saying.
 
StRatoCastR said:
Thats great. But the minute a guy drops her with a well placed straight right he will be crucified. It probably wouldnt even be at full power either. I dont care how good the female fighter is, if a well placed shot from an inexperienced fighter lands on her chin she is going down. Then what? Oops? Good job? No, he will pretty much be labeled as a woman beater. And asked why was he going so hard to begin with? When in all reality he may have slipped her jab and caught her blindly with a right hand or a left hook. Men and women have different upperbody strength, thats been proven.
Click to expand...


I don't know man. Maybe its because you are much bigger than me (180lb man versus 100lb girl...yeah, I can see why you wouldn't want to go full force on her) but I've personally hit our female fighter at the gym full force and she has yet to go down. So have most of the guys near her weight (she's 125/130lb and we are around 130-140lb). Sure, she's got nosebleeds but if we are to blame the men who did it...then we are all kind of in trouble.

In the end, its the only way to prepare her for fights seeing she's the only girl who competes. It also doesn't hurt she harder than most of the guys I spar with (or maybe it does :icon_lol:)

Either way, I can see why you might not be into it but yeah...its not the same at every gym.
 
Yeah i would say i outweigh any female at the gym significantly. Lol
 
Haha no wonder^

P.S. As delicious as the Cleto Reyes in your profile pic looks, don't wear them to spar with the ladies lol
 
Marbig said:
Haha no wonder^

P.S. As delicious as the Cleto Reyes in your profile pic looks, don't wear them to spar with the ladies lol
Click to expand...

WTF is wrong with you people? Hit a woman? Get the F@$! out of here.

"You dont respect her if you dont hit her?!?!" Wow that sounds like battered woman syndrome in reverse.

Bullshit marxist nonsense.
 
I see her more as my teammate then a woman? And its not for my ego?

In the end, if I don't hit her in the face with 16oz then a chick is going to obliterate her with 10oz.

That's how I see it.
 
I'll touch on a few things, but first want to apologize for helping to completely derail this thread:

Mixedmajik: At the time, I was not a coach, but still an active competitive boxer. My last sanctioned bout was in December of 2010, though I had smokers after the fact. As far as the getting older comment, I meant more as age in the sport than age in generally. I'll be 29 next month, but I was brought up in the gym. My father worked with John Ruiz (hate him if you'd like, he became WBA HW Champion of the world) throughout his amateur career as well as his early professional career. I've been and seen a lot of things in the sport.

Strato: First, if I offended, I'm sorry. Not my intentions at all.

For those of you opposed to sparring with girls, I have to ask, do you compete? Not a question of are you good, or do you spar, or have you had smokers. Have you, anyone who won't spar with a girl, had a sanctioned bout?

If the answer is no, fine, I get it. I'll tell you now that you'll very likely have a different perspective after you compete.

If the answer is yes, who gave you work? Ever move with someone better than you where you offered them little in return? Work with plenty of different people to get different looks and different feels for opponents? Do me a favor: Imagine if NO ONE, not a single one of those people you imagined, would spar with you. I don't care about how you feel, this isn't an empowerment question, but I do have a follow up question.

Would you have been able to compete at the level you did if you didn't get those looks? If you say yes, you're a fool.

Julie was a talented competitive boxer. She paid her dues, did very well in her smokers, and ended up going on a 3-0 run to win the New England Golden gloves. If you didn't realize already, there aren't many girls in the sport. How the fuck was she expected to win all those fights, let alone a single round, if she didn't get her sparring in? Serious question. How was she expected to get better and win fights if she wasn't getting looks?

Getting back to Majik's question about how self reflective or critical someone should be in sparring, I think the answer is very critical. The focus is the important part though. I never think "Damn, I should have easily fucked that dude up", but I often think "Wow, I'm getting tagged every time he parries my 1 and comes over with a 2." I want to make sure the mistake I make in sparring are learn-able moments for when I compete.

Granted, this is in my stable, and that's where most of my sparring occurred. If I was traveling to other gyms or had other gyms come to get some work, yeah, I turned it up. When that happened, I would attempt to put to use all the stuff I learned from my teammates in a close to competition environment. From there, you reflect, see what worked and what needs work, and you refine those when you move with your own.

So, I guess what I'm saying is, if you have a competitive girl at your gym, she'll need to get work in. If you compete yourself, again, not just spar but actually have had sanctioned bouts, thank your stablemates for getting you to that point. If that's the case, pay it forward and give everyone in your gym looks. They'll be better, and it's possible that even you'll be better, having done so.
 
Great post CS and thanks for addressing my queries and making some solid points. I like your coaching philosophy a lot more than my ex-coach's. I'd train at your gym for sure. Like how you relate age to years in the sport vs actuality and the point you made about sparring vs competing. Unfortunately sparring is as far as i'll be allowed to go (and by go i mean do in secret) as long as i report home to my parent's roof after a university year. You're probably right that the mentality of a competition fighter will be slightly different. I didn't see it that way, which is why I asked for your perspective. Thanks.

Also it's really my fault for derailing the thread so i should be the one apologizing since I made the first passive comment about this topic and it snowballed more than i expected...although I did enjoy what i learned from this and the different perspectives shared. I don't think this was a discussion detrimental to the forum...more the opposite if you ask me. Cheers.
 
Nah CS you didnt offend. I just hate when people say "well at my gym...." Or "we dont act like..." Im not going to name drop my coaches. Its cool man if it works for you it works. Im just telling you my opinion and why i dont do things.

Your right, how is she supposed to train, imo thats where the coaches come in. Because you know how it goes before training for competiton sparring intensity is up.

Now me personally i could/wouldnt/shouldn't spar that hard against a woman. You guys can call me a pig or a child but if i injured her i couldnt box anymore. Thats me.
Of course like i mentioned previously there are the comments listed in my previous posts.

Now going back to the heat of the arguement there are plenty of women out there to spar with.

Theres always the cool female thats just one of the guys. She gets dropped someone gets in trouble and its a pain. Seen it on more than one occassion. It may not happen soon with ur females but there might come a day when it could happen. And all ill do is say i tried to warn you.

And this isnt towards just women i wont spar kids either. Ive seen some angry mom cuss out a teen because she thought he was going too hard. That too is a lose/lose.
Let the coaches spar the kids and the women. Its much better that way.
 
Strato do you think your size has something to do with that mentality? Like you said before, you're huge compared to almost everyone you meet, obviously including women. If you were a featherweight or something do you think this would change. I notice a lot of big guys are afraid of the damage they can do regardless of the gender of their opponent if they see a size difference. My barber is like 230-255 pounds depending on the shape he's in and he is a great guy but says he openly admits he goes in there and takes more than he dishes out simply because when he hits anybody he seriously hurts them lol. A bit different with a guy my size in the 130's where girls and guys alike think they can beat me up just by looking at me. That said, I probably still wouldn't spar 100% with a girl but if my coach told me to go in and give her work I don't think I'd be at too much risk of hurting her if I went lightly. The difference with you would be you going lightly is probably equal to a lot of average or small sized guys going hard so the element of being afraid to hurt someone is greater with you. Me going lightly probably wouldn't hurt a girl (considering many i meet are bigger than me to begin with) but I still likely wouldn't be comfortable with it regardless. CS has a point though, competitors and girls who compete or that are serious about the sport do need work but...once again...so many ways to look at this. I wish we'd made a new thread about this topic before taking this one so far off tangent.
 
What about my core questions though Strato? Are you a competitive boxer? Have you had sanctioned bouts?

If people helped prepare you for those, you should be able to return the favor for any other competitive boxer.

Julie wasn't just one of the guys, she was an accomplished competitive boxer. My old gym (Nonantum Boxing Club, the one in the video) just produced a runner up in the National Golden Gloves with Amanda Pavone. She moves around with the guys as much as anyone else, and she can hold her own.

At any gym, there are competitive fighters, and there are casual boxers. If you belong to a stable of competitive fighters, most everyone should be able to give everyone else work that would benefit them.

I walk around at 155 and fought my sanctioned fights at 132. There were several guys in my stable that were heavies or super heavies that would give me work. These are guys that could put me away in a round if they wanted to, but that isn't why you spar. They offered something to me in the way of a bigger fighter who could lay on me, tire me out, and throw some serious leather even when they pulled punches, and I could help them with dealing with a fighter much faster and with a higher output then what they were used to.

You can move around with a girl and girl her work. If she is throwing haymakers and is trying to put you in the front row, she isn't a serious competitive fighter, she's a wanna be like anyone else who doesn't undertsand controlled sparring. At the same time, if you have a guy putting her on her ass every time she gets in the ring, that guy should reevaluate why he got in there in the first place. Is he giving her work, or is he beating up on someone less skilled than him?
 
I think a big point you're hitting on isn't registering enough even though i see you're trying to stress it and that simply is the symbiotic/mutual mentality of the sparring partners in the ring which can makes or break the purpose of the sparring.

Edit* Also Cheap, if a guy as big as strato was sparring the said female fighter in your gym and hurt her unintentionally with a shot, have you considered how you would possibly console the guy or dampen the backlash that may come from it. Hypothetically parents may get really pissed with you for allowing it to take place, other guys in the gym might think the onus for the damage should be placed on you, and likewise the same people will/may blame the big guy who agreed to go in there even though mutually everything was an unintentional mistake. Of course the girl will not receive any backlash. The gender card almost will certainly come into play if something like that happens...I actually see strato's point quite clearly also. Like i said though, i'm not competing in sanctioned bouts...but would that even matter to the people coming to you looking for an explanation or people walking up to the big guy partner asking him "what the hell?"
 
Last edited:
mixedmajik said:
I think a big point you're hitting on isn't registering enough even though i see you're trying to stress it and that simply is the symbiotic/mutual mentality of the sparring partners in the ring which can makes or break the purpose of the sparring.
Click to expand...

Definitely my biggest point. Sparring isn't fighting, it's sparring. It's something to prepare you for a fight, and if done correctly and monitored by a mindful coach, allows fighters to perform to the best of their abilities come fight time.

This is also why I am stressing the competitive boxer question. I competed. There was times where I had the chance to prove my worth in the ring, and I did my best to take advantage of that. I see guys at the gym all the time that don't compete, and since they don't, they feel the need to "prove" their worth in sparring. Those are guys I don't give work to. They're clowns who don't udnerstand the dedication it takes to be a competitive fighter. They want the quick and easy gratification of picking up rounds in the gym because they aren't commited enough to do it infront of a paying audience.

When I spar, what do I have to prove? That I'm a good fighter? There is a stage for that, and when the time comes, I can always find out. No ego in sparring, it isn't about getting the better of someone, it's about getting better yourself. Sometimes I get more from it then my partner, sometimes they get more from it then me. At the end of the day though, we're just working together to get our hand raised when it counts.
 
mixedmajik said:
Edit* Also Cheap, if a guy as big as strato was sparring the said female fighter in your gym and hurt her unintentionally with a shot, have you considered how you would possibly console the guy or dampen the backlash that may come from it. Hypothetically parents may get really pissed with you for allowing it to take place, other guys in the gym might think the onus for the damage should be placed on you, and likewise the same people will/may blame the big guy who agreed to go in there even though mutually everything was an unintentional mistake. Of course the girl will not receive any backlash. The gender card almost will certainly come into play if something like that happens...I actually see strato's point quite clearly also. Like i said though, i'm not competing in sanctioned bouts...but would that even matter to the people coming to you looking for an explanation or people walking up to the big guy partner asking him "what the hell?"
Click to expand...

If a super heavy dropped and hurt someone in the 130 pound range, regardless of gender, shame on them. They couldn't control themselves and they need a reality check.

If a super heavy dropped a female fighter who was 200 lbs, that's totally different. You stop the round, you filter in new people, and coaches talk to the fighters. People get caught, it happens, and you move on from it quickly. If the girl made a mistake, you address it. If the male was going to hard (again, regardless of gender), you address that with him as well.

If a fighter is uncomfortable moving with a girl, we discuss that ahead of time. I would never force a fighter to move with someone they were uncomfortable with due to gender, weight, or age. If it were gender, I would talk to them about why the girl is in the ring. She's a fighter, like anyone else, and she needs work. If it's age, I let that one slide. I try to match JO fighters with other JO fighters when possible, senior with senior, and masters with masters. Sometimes it can't happen that way, and people need to step up and give others work, even when they'll benefit from it little themselves. Same with weight, match people closely often, but give others looks. If a heavy fighter dropped me, again, shame on them. At the same time, if I go balls out in sparring against a much larger opponent, then I deserve to get my teeth caved in.
 
Marbig said:
I see her more as my teammate then a woman? And its not for my ego?

In the end, if I don't hit her in the face with 16oz then a chick is going to obliterate her with 10oz.

That's how I see it.
Click to expand...

Oh was this an attempt at sarcasm? Oh goodness me... Im taken aback...

Try learning slipping. Learn to close distance and guard or hold. Use foot work. I know you guys dont have the best gyms or fighters down there but try and learn. Watch some American and Cuban fighters.

Women of certain training and talent cant perform on the same level as a man of equal training and talent in most sports, especially boxing. Ill take top 5 women 147#s and put em in the ring with Pacquiao and the 5 women will have to be carried out if he didnt hold back. This isnt tennis. No one is meant to be beat up, but women much less so. Your desire to be politically correct and this perversion of gender bending defeats any sense of reason you might have just so you can be fashionable.

I find truth much more "fashionable".

Swinging on a woman is out of ego. Not swinging is out of love and respect. I held back on the younger guys too for the same reasons(even though that wasnt necessary). Teeing off on em is from ego. Get it straight. Woman are different than men. And thats an awesome, designed thing. If you depersonalize a girl it is because you have been conditioned to do so. Much like we are conditioned as Marines to not kill a man per se but to 'take down a target'. To spell it out for you there is a bit of depravity involved.

And if you want to make an argument that if you hold back it can hurt em in a real fight, Well If I get in the ring with say, Pacquiao , Mathesse, or GGG, I pray to the Almighty they hold back somewhat.
 
Cheap Shot said:
What about my core questions though Strato? Are you a competitive boxer? Have you had sanctioned bouts?


If a super heavy dropped and hurt someone in the 130 pound range, regardless of gender, shame on them. They couldn't control themselves and they need a reality check.
Click to expand...



Yes, I have, but I am currently not active. My last bout was in 2010 or 11.

This is the entire reason that I do not like to get in with smaller/different genders. I am no pro by ANY stretch of the means. My little "Actual" ring experience (bouts) I just don't feel comfortable sparring with a female/kid. Which is why I opt to leave the ring now during sparring sessions if one of them is like "oh me next!" I just quietly, and respectfully leave the ring, I nod to my coach. I mean he knows too. Its not just me.

You are right in your 2nd statement, I'm no super heavy but we are talking about 2 different strengths here too as well as weight. Women don't have the same strength as a man, if that were the case every sport would be integrated, but they aren't. So I am NOT 100% sure I couldn't control myself. So I opt out of sparring them, so that way I don't get the reality check that you speak of.

I'm not one of those jerks that's looks to knock out every new comer that strolls into the gym. So you should see it from my point of view as well. What if I hurt this female/kid? In the end I knew better. What may feel light to me might feel stiff to them. Other situation is; am I going to light to the point where they get little to no experience gained? There are light punchers, and there are stiff punchers.

Like I said, ill train with them, just not against them. That I have no issue with. Hope that all makes sense. I hope I didn't come across as an elitist but this day in age you can never be too safe with all the lawsuits and all that stuff... More so, because Im in the military and it is HUGE here.
 
Last edited:
Your post is perfect and completely understandable. Makes sense for sure and I think we agree more than we disagree here.
 
And I don't mind a good debate :)

Clamp, sorry bro I destroyed your thread lol, technically it was Majik!
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Latest posts

Forum statistics

Threads
1,237,180
Messages
55,474,439
Members
174,787
Latest member
Biden's Diaper

Share this page

Back
Top