Rocky Marciano or Floyd Mayweather Jr. - Who had the better career?

[PUO3]

If Maidana did what he did rocky wins

Bite, tackle, head butt, low blows, and shots to the back of the head? Yes I agree Rocky would win if he used those tactics.

Id even agree he could win without them. It still isnt some nightmare matchup.

 

[PUO3]

I think if Maidens gave Floyd a damn close fight and if Oscar, way past it, did, then Rocky would be a real problem for him. He, like Floyd, had that quality to always find a way to win. Both were tremendous rematch fighters and won BIG in their rematches. Rocky never stopped and Floyd looked for a spot when the guy took breaks in order to pick up points (not his only way, just to clarify, don't try to make a point out of that). Would you honestly say that an undefeated, dominant rematch fighter who has an elite gas tank and an unbeaten chin would not be nightmare for anybody?

I would say that Rocky is a special fighter, but a crude brawler, regardless of power and tenacity, is not a nightmare matchup for Mayweather. Thats all.

 

[revoltub]

dumb point. we have weight classes, not height and reach classes.

5’11 and 68” reach by the way.

dumb point. we have weight classes, not height and reach classes.

5’11 and 68” reach by the way.

I was talking bout weight too
And who did he outweigh besides moore?

10 lb disadvantage.

Almost 20 lb disadvantage

Basically same weight, an inch shorter, 7 inch reach disadvantage.

Virtual same height and reach, almost 15 pound weight disadvantage.

So again who are these smaller guys? You are being disingenuous about height/reach. When you are in the same weight class but you are shorter/shorter reach than you are the smaller guy essentially. And he was smaller anyway even by weight as I just shown

 

[revoltub]

Bite, tackle, head butt, low blows, and shots to the back of the head? Yes I agree Rocky would win if he used those tactics.

Id even agree he could win without them. It still isnt some nightmare matchup.

Okay, fair.

 

[TheGreatA]

Rocky's achievements, pound for pound, are arguably more impressive than his achievements as a heavyweight.

He was a 180 pound guy with short reach, who fought and beat several all-time p4p greats (who were roughly the same size as he was). Those wins against Ezzard Charles and Archie Moore, from a p4p perspective, are great wins, make no mistake about it. Even if they don't rate among the greatest wins from a heavyweight's perspective (because Charles and Moore were basically at their best at 175).

Overall, though, his career lacked the kind of steady trajectory of quality opponents that Floyd faced. Because he was basically compensating for his lack of an amateur career by fighting journeymen and fringe contenders early on. Roland LaStarza was his first major step-up, and he barely squeaked out a win. It wasn't until his 35th fight that he started facing quality opponents on a consistent basis (while Floyd basically started doing that by his 16th fight).

At his best though, it shouldn't be under-sold how legitimately great he was for a 180 pound fighter.

 

[KAZSoliloquy]

I was talking bout weight too
And who did he outweigh besides moore?

10 lb disadvantage.

Almost 20 lb disadvantage

Basically same weight, an inch shorter, 7 inch reach disadvantage.

Virtual same height and reach, almost 15 pound weight disadvantage.

So again who are these smaller guys? You are being disingenuous about height/reach. When you are in the same weight class but you are shorter/shorter reach than you are the smaller guy essentially. And he was smaller anyway even by weight as I just shown

i said same size or smaller. he was bigger than moore and the same size as charles and walcott. i didn’t include louis as a “great fighter” he beat because as you can see, louis was almost 40 and had been fighting once every year or two for the better part of a decade.

the “dumb point” comment was in response to you using reach and height as concrete evidence of overall size.

 

[revoltub]

i said same size or smaller. he was bigger than moore and the same size as charles and walcott. i didn’t include louis as a “great fighter” he beat because as you can see, louis was almost 40 and had been fighting once every year or two for the better part of a decade.

the “dumb point” comment was in response to you using reach and height as concrete evidence of overall size.

But he wasn't the same size, he was smaller. Its right there in the TOTT

 

[KAZSoliloquy]

But he wasn't the same size, he was smaller. Its right there in the TOTT

again, i wasn’t claiming he outweighed charles/walcott. i was disputing you using reach and height as the only way to tell someone’s size.

there are also plenty of photos of marciano/moore/charles/walcott fighting. they are the same size at best. those guys had their best years at LHW and moved up in weight when they got older. this isn’t debatable.

 

[revoltub]

again, i wasn’t claiming he outweighed charles/walcott. i was disputing you using reach and height as the only way to tell someone’s size.

there are also plenty of photos of marciano/moore/charles/walcott fighting. they are the same size at best. those guys had their best years at LHW and moved up in weight when they got older. this isn’t debatable.

Okay so you're going by 80 year old photos and not the stats.

As for the reach, again its disingenuous to act like his height and reach don't make him smaller. He has the same reach as Manny Pac.

I get there is no "height classes" but boxers especially today choose their weight class with their reach/height in mind. The guys who were similar sized to marciano such as Quawi or Ward both fought under 175 for the most part. You can't be suggesting that marciano would fight cruiserweight today. Hed fight 175 or smaller to help negate the 6'2 78 inch reach guys that exist at CW and HW.

 

[KAZSoliloquy]

Okay so you're going by 80 year old photos and not the stats.

As for the reach, again its disingenuous to act like his height and reach don't make him smaller. He has the same reach as Manny Pac.

I get there is no "height classes" but boxers especially today choose their weight class with their reach/height in mind. The guys who were similar sized to marciano such as Quawi or Ward both fought under 175 for the most part. You can't be suggesting that marciano would fight cruiserweight today. Hed fight 175 or smaller to help negate the 6'2 78 inch reach guys that exist at CW and HW.

he would probably fight at LHW which is hilarious because LHW was pretty stacked back then and he could have made that weight but he dodged it. he was more marketable as a white american heavyweight champion post-WW2 and that’s fine but the talent was at 175.

 

[revoltub]

he would probably fight at LHW which is hilarious because LHW was pretty stacked back then and he could have made that weight but he dodged it. he was more marketable as a white american heavyweight champion post-WW2 and that’s fine but the talent was at 175.

What? He avoided guys at 175 to be outweighed at HW?

Again, hes smaller than the guys I shown by EVERY measurable even weight.

You sound like a hater TBH.

 

[KAZSoliloquy]

What? He avoided guys at 175 to be outweighed at HW?

Again, hes smaller than the guys I shown by EVERY measurable even weight.

You sound like a hater TBH.

you’re conveniently ignoring the fact that you can literally watch these fights and see they’re the same size. if anything, i’m agreeing with you. he was undersized at HW but the best HW’s were his size or smaller.

you’re also ignoring that these fighters were much less successful at that weight before and after fighting marciano and are only considered great for their accomplishments at lower weight classes.

 

[revoltub]

you’re conveniently ignoring the fact that you can literally watch these fights and see they’re the same size. if anything, i’m agreeing with you. he was undersized at HW but the best HW’s were his size or smaller.

you’re also ignoring that these fighters were much less successful at that weight before and after fighting marciano and are only considered great for their accomplishments at lower weight classes.

I'm going by facts, your going by your eyes. And you might be blind because he's clearly smaller

 

[KAZSoliloquy]

I'm going by facts, you're going by your eyes.

no you’re twisting a select group of facts to suit your argument and ignoring dissenting & context-providing information lol

 

[revoltub]

no you’re twisting a select group of facts to suit your argument and ignoring dissenting & context-providing information lol

No, you are ignoring facts, all of which show him as being the smaller guy, in order to bring up "what you see" on video. The only standard that he's smaller by is what you see on video.

Show me ANY actual measurable hes bigger in. ANY

 

[KAZSoliloquy]

No, you are ignoring facts, all of which show him as being the smaller guy, in order to bring up "what you see" on video. The only standard that he's smaller by is what you see on video.

Show me ANY actual measurable hes bigger in. ANY

weight for the majority of his and his best opponents' careers. i'm not his tailor so i can't tell you the circumference of every part of his body. he did not fight charles/walcott/moore at their best weight. they put on weight to challenge him in his division. this is another fact you've refused to acknowledge.

charles was as soft as it gets at heavyweight

 

[revoltub]

weight for the majority of his and his best opponents' careers. i'm not his tailor so i can't tell you the circumference of every part of his body. he did not fight charles/walcott/moore at their best weight. they put on weight to challenge him in his division. this is another fact you've refused to acknowledge.

charles was as soft as it gets at heavyweight

Again, show me the weights where he is a smaller guy.

 

[djacobox372]

I was talking bout weight too
And who did he outweigh besides moore?

10 lb disadvantage.

Almost 20 lb disadvantage

Basically same weight, an inch shorter, 7 inch reach disadvantage.

Virtual same height and reach, almost 15 pound weight disadvantage.

So again who are these smaller guys? You are being disingenuous about height/reach. When you are in the same weight class but you are shorter/shorter reach than you are the smaller guy essentially. And he was smaller anyway even by weight as I just shown

 

[JayE]

weight for the majority of his and his best opponents' careers. i'm not his tailor so i can't tell you the circumference of every part of his body. he did not fight charles/walcott/moore at their best weight. they put on weight to challenge him in his division. this is another fact you've refused to acknowledge.

charles was as soft as it gets at heavyweight

Walcott was a full-fledged HW and a bit bigger than Marciano, even accounting for their size at their HW peaks. He was a full-fledged HW several years past his best, but still a full-fledged HW. Charles, on the other hand, only went to HW because it had become clear he was never getting a title shot at LHW, despite being far and away the best at the weight. He could have finished his career at LHW if he had wanted. When he peaked as a HW, he weighed between 180-185 pounds. Marciano's wins against them are still very impressive (Charles had slipped a bit as a HW by the time he fought Marciano as he was 3 years removed from KO'd and losing his title against Walcott), but they should be held in context.

 

[JayE]

Well perhaps don't recognize I am arguing that one is greater than the other, but I am positing contrary opinions. Marciano didn't start until 23 and was a pressure fighter (and they fade by 30). He was never destined to have a 2 decade career that could be extended because of a style.that ages well. Considering he did what he did in such a short span of time speaks to his qualities as a fighter. If Floyd had nine years only as a pro and had no childhood influences to sculpt him into a lifelong boxer would people remember him? Not sure. What ifs aside, I only mentioned them to say that what Rocky did in a short span was impressive. Great, even.

But anyway, you can tell who is a Rocky fan and who is not. Yoy can tell who is a Floyd fan and who is not. I'm sure you've seen this in the thread so far. I am and will remain in the middle.

I mean, alright. The thread is about who had the better career. It's more or less impossible to argue for Marciano if we're going by established metrics for these discussions (some combination of quantity of top wins, level of dominance, quality of opposition, longevity). You can appreciate Marciano and still acknowledge there's only one answer to the thread question.