Elections Sweden Election 2022 - A brighter future

[Deorum]

But anyways, it's not DNA or genetics that's the problem. It's culture, pure and simple and how many newcomers can't fully integrate into their new homes. Talk to any immigrant from any place and there will always be inevitable comparisons to their former homes. And when old and new are so strikingly different the comparisons will be discussed more often and that friction will rub off on following generations.

Y'all talkin' racial hygiene in here? <45>

 

[Bald1]

Y'all talkin' racial hygiene in here? <45>

I'd prefer phrenology but that's unacceptable now. Sad!

Lol

 

[SanchoMF]

That's more than edgy and you know it. If a Palestinian said something half as bad as that about Jews I'd bet you'd assume they are a genocidal antisemite and it wouldn't be a baseless assumption.

You may not have explicitly made those claims but you're quick to defend the one who does and to flirt with those ideas in non-committal way as you do later

Its not really logical though, you're toying with pseudo-scientific concepts to justify the idea that these immigrants are inherently anti-social which naturally leads down a dark path as evidenced by your buddy here calling for the expulsion of all of them.

Like I said earlier its a matter of low trust vs high trust culture. Immigrants either come from a low trust culture and fail to assimilate, assimilate into a preexisting low trust underclass, or a combination of the two. There's no need to entertain social Darwinism to explain these anti-social behaviors and if you're going to insist on such explanations don't be surprised if people read the obvious into them.

Alright, we know that quite a lot of Palestinians are saying far worse thing than that about their neighbours..

I understand where our friend in question is coming from and I can see the level of upset that he's going through, with what has been left developing in his country, because I find it somewhat relatable to my country of origin and current country of residence.

We've been discussing our topics on a more conceptual level (culture, religion whatnot) but as far as I'm concerned, human behaviour is cognitive, social and psychological, all fundamentally from our biological origin. I get why people might find this angle a bit 'borderline', but I don't see why predisposition to aggression and anti-social behaviour couldn't be both hereditary and environmental? Hardly pseudoscience, given how much of this is being studied in the 21st century, on violent offenders, on refugees with their resilience to high psychosocial stress and on childhood trauma, all in men with low dopamine turnover rates and certain cell adhesion molecules. Again, I don't say 'ONLY' and 'ALL' , but what I'm adding here is that the disproportional representation of antisocial and violent behaviour could be based on this, so 'ALSO'.
Your statement doesn't exclude what I'm saying and neither does my statement exclude with what you're saying, in the context of our topic.

I can only say these things theoretically because, well, it's not like I'm gonna take a plane to Sweden and ask some dudes to kindly form a line, while I swab the insides of their cheeks..

 

[Islam Imamate]

Alright, we know that quite a lot of Palestinians are saying far worse thing than that about their neighbours..

I understand where our friend in question is coming from and I can see the level of upset that he's going through, with what has been left developing in his country, because I find it somewhat relatable to my country of origin and current country of residence.

Well if you're so understanding of our friend here based on the conditions of his country you should be very understanding of the Palestinians who say those things based on the far worse conditions of their country right?

We've been discussing our topics on a more conceptual level (culture, religion whatnot) but as far as I'm concerned, human behaviour is cognitive, social and psychological, all fundamentally from our biological origin. I get why people might find this angle a bit 'borderline', but I don't see why predisposition to aggression and anti-social behaviour couldn't be both hereditary and environmental? Hardly pseudoscience, given how much of this is being studied in the 21st century, on violent offenders, on refugees with their resilience to high psychosocial stress and on childhood trauma, all in men with low dopamine turnover rates and certain cell adhesion molecules. Again, I don't say 'ONLY' and 'ALL' , but what I'm adding here is that the disproportional representation of antisocial and violent behaviour could be based on this, so 'ALSO'.
Your statement doesn't exclude what I'm saying and neither does my statement exclude with what you're saying, in the context of our topic.

I can only say these things theoretically because, well, it's not like I'm gonna take a plane to Sweden and ask some dudes to kindly form a line, while I swab the insides of their cheeks..

I never said aggression isn't hereditary but that's not the claim that our friend is making and that you are defending. The claim is that MENA folks, who are made up of many different ethnic groups with different genetics from dozens of different countries, somehow share some unique "aggression" gene that explains their anti-social behavior that Europeans don't have. You haven't cited a single source to back this up beyond your own speculation that suspiciously resembles that of late 19th century social Darwinists. Don't you see how that's going to come off?

 

[The_Renaissance]

Well if you're so understanding of our friend here based on the conditions of his country you should be very understanding of the Palestinians who say those things based on the far worse conditions of their country right?

I never said aggression isn't hereditary but that's not the claim that our friend is making and that you are defending. The claim is that MENA folks, who are made up of many different ethnic groups with different genetics from dozens of different countries, somehow share some unique "aggression" gene that explains their anti-social behavior that Europeans don't have. You haven't cited a single source to back this up beyond your own speculation that suspiciously resembles that of late 19th century social Darwinists. Don't you see how that's going to come off?

The only potential counter argument I'd mention is that all immigrant communities have the potential for crime and violence because its the easiest and quickest way to money in an alien country in which you're down the pecking order socially.

But you don't see it from the Indian or Chinese communities so much, even though they're heavily represented and still immigrant communities.

There has to be an element of religion. In my humble opinion. I mean if you're devoutly Muslim, to the extreme, surrounded by people who don't believe in your beliefs, its a breeding ground for anger and potential violence with some young men.

The Sikh Community are seemingly chilled everywhere for the most part. The Chinese rarely exhibit any form of religion in my experience.

I've lived in Muslim heavy neighbourhoods and it was always cool but they are extremely into their religion so I can easily see how that might escalate if the people around them, are not.

 

[theBloB]

Well if you're so understanding of our friend here based on the conditions of his country you should be very understanding of the Palestinians who say those things based on the far worse conditions of their country right?

I never said aggression isn't hereditary but that's not the claim that our friend is making and that you are defending. The claim is that MENA folks, who are made up of many different ethnic groups with different genetics from dozens of different countries, somehow share some unique "aggression" gene that explains their anti-social behavior that Europeans don't have. You haven't cited a single source to back this up beyond your own speculation that suspiciously resembles that of late 19th century social Darwinists. Don't you see how that's going to come off?

Man you are horrible @Islam Imamate

You are like a poisonous snake that weasels out when you can't handle the truth. Here in this thread you will find tons of evidence that MENA people living in my country have built up an incredibly bad reputation with their behavior. Your own mind apparently cannot handle this kind of information. And what do you do in such a situation? As usual you direct your eyes elsewhere and have now turned this into a DNA only thread where, according to your own hysterical person, it is about genetics racism from Nazis.

You're caught lying and I don't understand how you still exist as a mod. You have literally accused me of being a Nazi who wants to deport all the immigrants we have in Sweden by using violence and murder.

Do you really understand what you are doing when you lose your footing as you condone behavior that is harmful to my beloved country? Has Islam completely swallowed you whole that you cannot even show decency and act with dignity when something is universally bad behavior? To always react by resolutely attacking? Is that your thing?

You have no mod authority here anymore as you take things very personally. The fact that you also invent and accuse members of gross slander is the nail in the coffin.

What is the worst thing to be called?

A jihadist or a Nazi?

 

[So Fresh]

This was a interesting listen about the Sweden elections.

Some cliffs:
- mainstream and centre left parties moved to the right
- Sweden Democrats moved to the mainstream
- elections were mostly about law and order with immigration being subdued by the law and order topic
- The influence of Danish politics on Sweden politics
- Social democrats did good during the elections despite them losing power

 

[Islam Imamate]

The only potential counter argument I'd mention is that all immigrant communities have the potential for crime and violence because its the easiest and quickest way to money in an alien country in which you're down the pecking order socially.

But you don't see it from the Indian or Chinese communities so much, even though they're heavily represented and still immigrant communities.

There has to be an element of religion. In my humble opinion. I mean if you're devoutly Muslim, to the extreme, surrounded by people who don't believe in your beliefs, its a breeding ground for anger and potential violence with some young men.

The Sikh Community are seemingly chilled everywhere for the most part. The Chinese rarely exhibit any form of religion in my experience.

I've lived in Muslim heavy neighbourhoods and it was always cool but they are extremely into their religion so I can easily see how that might escalate if the people around them, are not.

Does Islam explain why Eastern European immigrants have high crime rates and why British Arabs have lower ones than even Englishmen? Or...?

 

[Denter]

Does Islam explain why Eastern European immigrants have high crime rates and why British Arabs have lower ones than even Englishmen? Or...?

Or how Algerians in Algeria have a much lower crime rate than Algerians in France? Lots of nuance and complexity to this issue. One thing I think everyone can agree on is the need for energetic policing and prosecution of serious criminals.

 

[Yehudim]

rip the blob

 

[Bald1]

Does Islam explain why Eastern European immigrants have high crime rates and why British Arabs have lower ones than even Englishmen? Or...?

Eastern euro crime decreases over time and generations while the exact opposite seems to be the case for many Muslim newcomers. You've said it yourself several times that 2nd and 3rd generation Muslims are more problematic than 1st in western Europe. As far as religous radicalization goes anyways.

 

[Islam Imamate]

Eastern euro crime decreases over time and generations while the exact opposite seems to be the case for many Muslim newcomers. You've said it yourself several times that 2nd and 3rd generation Muslims are more problematic than 1st in western Europe. As far as religous radicalization goes anyways.

I'm not sure what your point here is, wouldn't that suggest that the culture of Eastern Europe is more prone to crime while the Muslim immigrants are acculturating into a criminal underclass overtime?

EDIT: Actually it could be explained in a number of different ways that aren't mutually exclusive.

 

[So Fresh]

This reminds me of a theory by a social scientist who claimed that immigrants that are listed high in crime numbers are actually very well integrated because they have adapted to western criminal culture. Hence the Scarface, Godfather, Narco’s, and “gangster” music references these criminals use and how this influenced them.

It was an interesting story and haven’t heard much about it lately.

 

[Deorum]

rip the blob

Yeah, that was most certainly @sweede.

Why is NoDak banned? I remember him as a very knowledgeable man in everything related to high technology. He took it in the ass too, I want to remember.

Wait a minute, you're NoDak? Such information as being on top can only be known by the practitioner.

I hope I hath not aroused those carnal thoughts within you.

Man...You work so hard to be cool. You are black and @NoDak is gay. The irony is that he is a good informative poster and you are a bitching poster.

@Kafir-kun, a pretentious muslim who wants to learn arabic points to everyone that he was born and raised in the USA, but at the same time sees our western way of life as something hedonistic. Why he lives in the USA at all is a mystery.

Worst ban of the year is @NoDak.

Based.

We have a big gay scene here in Wales (Cardiff) and it seems relatively OK you don't hear about hate crimes much, if at all. Recently a former drag club was reinvented as a "after hours" type techno club, if you get me. Techno, drugs, open til 6am type affair but openly gay. I went there on the first weekend because I love techno, the city really needed that type of club, and I love drugs.

<45>

 

[Cole train]

Yeah, that was most certainly @sweede.















Based.



<45>

I actually said the day he started posting its sweede

Same job similar military stuff he talked about back in day

 

[Sano]

Eastern euro crime decreases over time and generations while the exact opposite seems to be the case for many Muslim newcomers. You've said it yourself several times that 2nd and 3rd generation Muslims are more problematic than 1st in western Europe. As far as religous radicalization goes anyways.

Second generation MENAP yes, as first generation really don't stick out in the crime statistics that much. Whereas with Eastern Europeans it's mostly first generation that have higher crime rates. However, third generation we don't know yet. There's some positive things happening in the muslim community that isn't talked about that much. Lower birth rates (if that's a positive), more MENAP immigrants in employment, both muslim girls and boys are increasingly having higher education and are now on par with ethnic national boys and girls, as well as crime falling albeit a large index difference remains for some groups (mostly young men from Somalia or Libanon).

More needs to be done to alleviate the socioeconomic disparities, which will further narrow the gap, however culturally there will probably always be a subset of people who wont assimilate entirely. Trends are improving and it'll be interesting to see what happens next generation. I think for things to really get better then being proactive (actively engaging in solutions), pragmatic (being honest about the issues) and forthcoming (seeking dialogue and communication) will help integration. In Denmark at least, things are looking optimistic.

I actually said the day he started posting its sweede

Same job similar military stuff he talked about back in day

We all knew it was him.

 

[Bald1]

Yeah, that was most certainly @sweede.

Well, yeah. We've been talking via PM since the last blowout I had with @PsychMajor. I told him he needs to relax and the reason I stayed out of this thread was so not to add fuel to the fire. Yeah, he gets carried away but was also bringing data to this conversation.

He's pissed off and justifiably so. There's really no arguing against him being justifiably angry. In 10 years his home went from being one of the best places to live in Europe to a shit hole cautionary tale by comparison.

All because of bullshit sentiment. Like @So Fresh he argued that I was islamophobic (I welcome that bullshit label) xenophobic (total falsehood) and racist (fuck anyone trying that with me) for years. He was wrong.

The fact is Europe already has a parallel society: gypsies. But they're as much a fabric of Europe as Hungarians and aren't ideologically driven so they're not trying to force societal change. The same can not be said about many Muslims. They want their rules to be the ones governing them, (once again in many but not all cases) and you just can't have a dual tiered system in a functioning society.

The fact is Sweden took in too many people, too fast and from too different a society. Sweden is fucked and won't be recognizable as Sweden from even a decade ago. And that's a shame. And that will lead to conflict. Yay multiculturalism!

Edit: Can't edit the above so I'm leaving it as is.

 

[Bald1]

Second generation MENAP yes, as first generation really don't stick out in the crime statistics that much. Whereas with Eastern Europeans it's mostly first generation that have higher crime rates.

My point exactly. I'm betting eastern Euros will seamlessly integrate by the 3rd generation as is the case all over the new world. And demonstrably not the case in Europe by most Muslim groups. Turks in Germany, Pakistanis in England and MENA folks in France have been a parallel society for over 40 years now. "What do they all have in common you baldbastard?" Glad you ask. Islam.

Don't agree or like it? Well I don't much care, but history doesn't lie and once Islam plants it's flag that land very seldom returns to it's old norms. Central Europe and Spain being the only exceptions throughout the centuries.

 

[Sano]

My point exactly. I'm betting eastern Euros will seamlessly integrate by the 3rd generation as is the case all over the new world. And demonstrably not the case in Europe by most Muslim groups. Turks in Germany, Pakistanis in England and MENA folks in France have been a parallel society for over 40 years now. "What do they all have in common you baldbastard?" Glad you ask. Islam.

Don't agree or like it? Well I don't much care, but history doesn't lie and once Islam plants it's flag that land very seldom returns to it's old norms. Central Europe and Spain being the only exceptions throughout the centuries.

No, not your point exactly. You ignored what I said, including the trends and data. I can't speak to the happenings in France, but I can speak to something closer to home. We can agree that fundamentalism is dangerous, but we're talking about integration happening right now and appealing to the histories of religion without context is irrelevent. You mention Turks in Germany, yet Iraqis, Syrians and Afghans in Germany are underrepresented in the crime stats despite being mostly muslim. This would seem to suggest that you are not really interested in parsing out the realities, but rather more interested in driving home an ideological win.

I don't really care to jump into that topic though, I'm more interested in what I was talking about with muslim integration in Denmark. It's easy to feel like you've won an argument if you argue with yourself, so either address the points of the post you replied to or don't bother.

 

[Bald1]

No, not your point exactly. You ignored what I said, including the trends and data. I can't speak to the happenings in France, but I can speak to something closer to home. We can agree that fundamentalism is dangerous, but we're talking about integration happening right now and appealing to the histories of religion without context is irrelevent. You mention Turks in Germany, yet Iraqis, Syrians and Afghans in Germany are underrepresented in the crime stats despite being mostly muslim. This would seem to suggest that you are not really interested in parsing out the realities, but rather more interested in driving home an ideological win.

I don't really care to jump into that topic though, I'm more interested in what I was talking about with muslim integration in Denmark. It's easy to feel like you've won an argument if you argue with yourself, so either address the points of the post you replied to or don't bother.

But my argument has never been about crime. Crime is a byproduct of dissimilar cultures clashing.

My problem is, as should yours, is bringing in and promoting a dogmatic and illiberal culture into Europe. Terror attacks, crime and grooming gangs in the case of the UK are symptoms of a much bigger issue. Islam, quite frankly, sucks. Welcome it at your own risk.