Opinion Trump supporters, do you give credit to Biden for bringing troops home?

[MicroBrew]

Biggest blunder in US Presidential History? Sounds objective. So arming the Taliban in the 80's wasn't worse? This wasn't worse

You don't think the reason why we haven't left in 20 years is because the place wasn't going to become an absolute shitshow and nobody wanted that on their watch?

Biggest blunder was supporting the Mujahedin in the 80s, and we supported the worst of the lot. Gulbeddin Heymatyar, the guy who the CIA gave the most funding to, was known to throw acid on a woman's face if she was not covered up. US policy during the Cold War was to support the Wahhabis and Jihadis.

 

[Morning Star]

Evacuate citizens, foreign nationals and allies first, then equipment and intel next, then soldiers.

What Biden did was soldiers first, which left intel and equipment vulnerable, and now in the hands of the taliban, and left citizens and allies, which is why people are dying and many more will die. This means the Biden admin did this exactly the OPPOSITE of what they should have done.

Trumps post about bombing the facilities after leaving would be even better.

But Bidens colossal failure goes far beyond that. Number one, you don't announce to the world when the withdrawal date is so that the Taliban can plan ahead.

I didn't know this until recently, but apparently Afghanis have a fighting season, which means between October and April they very rarely engage in any hostilities. Largely due to the harsh cold and poor transportation opportunities to move people and equipment.

So that means that literally Biden could have waited two months and it's likely there would have been zero hostilities. At least immediately, which means even more time to do things properly.

Can you tell me how why that isn't a far better idea?

Now we have a death rate that will climb, weapons, vehicles and possible Intel in the hands of a terrorist group and God knows how much more aggression now that said group has been armed with a billion dollars of American military equipment. How is that not mind boggling, inept failure of a withdrawal?

This is very well stated, I'm in complete agreement. I don't want the US involved anymore and pulling out needed to happen, but leaving behind US Citizens, Allies, and weapons is not only incompetent it's also immoral.

 

[dittohead84]

Biden gets no credit as he doesn't know what he's doing in general. He's a puppet like all the other career politicians before him. How stupid can people be

 

[MRT]

OH there would have been a couple small hiccups with CNN and MSNBC shining extended coverage on it. But this???? There's no way it could have been worse. I can also tell you've never set foot in Afghanistan.

Please share your evidence for how there would only have been "a couple small hiccups" under Trump and how there is "no way it could have been worse".

And what does my never having set foot in Afghanistan have to do with believing that the withdrawal would have been very messy regardless of whether Trump or Biden is in the White House?

 

[Bob Gray]

What is your background? Who have you talked to about this stuff? Because you are pretty darn accurate to reality. Which is hard to find sometimes on this forum.

Nothing special. I just read a lot.

 

[evansusmc2]

Please share your evidence for how there would only have been "a couple small hiccups" under Trump and how there is "no way it could have been worse".

And what does my never having set foot in Afghanistan have to do with believing that the withdrawal would have been very messy regardless of whether Trump or Biden is in the White House?

No offense but if I have to explain some of this stuff to you that is common sense to me.... You're way too far gone and It'd take too long and I got other stuff to do.

 

[Bob Gray]

Please share your evidence for how there would only have been "a couple small hiccups" under Trump and how there is "no way it could have been worse".

And what does my never having set foot in Afghanistan have to do with believing that the withdrawal would have been very messy regardless of whether Trump or Biden is in the White House?

How could Trump have done worse is the question. Even in the post of Trump's idea of what to do was a far better plan than this mess.

 

[MRT]

No offense but if I have to explain some of this stuff to you that is common sense to me.... You're way too far gone and It'd take too long and I got other stuff to do.

If you don't have time, that's fine...but I think we need a little more than 'common sense' as evidence for why Trump's hypothetical plan would have been smooth sailing while Biden's was as worse as possible.

 

[MRT]

How could Trump have done worse is the question. Even in the post of Trump's idea of what to do was a far better plan than this mess.

I never claimed that one plan was better/worse than the other...I suggested that it was going to be messy regardless of who was in office.

Also, "less worse" does not equal "smooth sailing".

 

[Bob Gray]

If you don't have time, that's fine...but I think we need a little more than 'common sense' as evidence for why Trump's hypothetical plan would have been smooth sailing while Biden's was as worse as possible.

Practically the only thing you have to do is remove the military last instead of first.

 

[Bob Gray]

I never claimed that one plan was better/worse than the other...I suggested that it was going to be messy regardless of who was in office.

Also, "less worse" does not equal "smooth sailing".

I don't think anyone denies it would be messy. But arguing that Trump could have possibly done worse isn't really valid. What we have here and now is a giant dumpster fire of epic proportions, and it's Bidens fault, and it could have easily been drastically improved with minor changes.

 

[MRT]

Practically the only thing you have to do is remove the military last instead of first.

Maybe we should put Sherdoggers in charge...you guys apparently have this very complex situation all figured out!

 

[Bob Gray]

Maybe we should put Sherdoggers in charge...you guys apparently have this very complex situation all figured out!

It would have gone better than it did.

 

[MRT]

I don't think anyone denies it would be messy. But arguing that Trump could have possibly done worse isn't really valid. What we have here and now is a giant dumpster fire of epic proportions, and it's Bidens fault, and it could have easily been drastically approved with minor changes.

Just a few posts up, I quoted someone claiming only 'minor hiccups' under Trump's plan...so there are people here claiming it would not have been messy.

I also have not argued that Trump would have done worse (or better). I have said that it would have been a mess no matter who was in office. I don't think the entire mess can be laid at Biden's feet...and it wouldn't have been all at Trump's feet either. If we grant that it would be messy to some extent regardless, then we need to factor out that 'baseline level of mess' from criticism of whoever is in charge and focus upon what was actually under their control and what they are therefore responsible for happening.

 

[MRT]

It would have gone better than it did.

I know you're being funny...but the sad part is that arrogance does exist around here. A lot of not-so-bright people think that they have very simple solutions for very complex problems.

 

[Whippy McGee]

Biden Press Conference.

(1) Look at list of reporters and call on them in order.
(2) Give pre-written responses to question that were staged.
(3) Walk away and take no more questions.

Where was the question on abandoning the air base in the middle of the night without notice?
Where was the question on not informing our closest allies and leaving them vulnerable?
Where was the question on why we withdrew the military before the civilians?
Where was the question on the billions of military equipment left behind?

This is what we get for having a senile, stupid, and corrupt Democrat in charge. A complicity media that had a hand in putting him there in the first place.

 

[wonderbread]

It's common sense, and has been mentioned by others, that you first evacuate civilians then troops, because you need the troops to hold the fort while civilians make it out.

Common sense doesn't work in politics and our Gov 3/4 of the time. I worked for the State Dept for 11 years and spent time in the middle east. There's a lot of arm-chair experts here. The US has had a shitty track record for training foreign militaries...THEN we have the huge differences in political and social conditions in Afghanistan HUGE....all that’s even before you get to the challenges of training soldiers, many of whom are illiterate-- and THEN add in the ethnic, religious, and tribal issues. So in the end we really blew almost 100 billion there JUST trying to get the Afghan army to function even at a minimal level. The biggest mistake of this whole debacle was going into Afghanistan to begin with. Greed really is what runs this country and after over a decade of trying to train their military blowing billions? Time to cut em loose and fend for themselves.

 

[MicroBrew]

Common sense doesn't work in politics and our Gov 3/4 of the time. I worked for the State Dept for 11 years and spent time in the middle east. There's a lot of arm-chair experts here. The US has had a shitty track record for training foreign militaries...THEN we have the huge differences in political and social conditions in Afghanistan HUGE....all that’s even before you get to the challenges of training soldiers, many of whom are illiterate-- and THEN add in the ethnic, religious, and tribal issues. So in the end we really blew almost 100 billion there JUST trying to get the Afghan army to function even at a minimal level. The biggest mistake of this whole debacle was going into Afghanistan to begin with. Greed really is what runs this country and after over a decade of trying to train their military blowing billions? Time to cut em loose and fend for themselves.

When it came to the withdrawl Biden put the cart in front of the horse.

I mentioned this last year , or it may have been the earlier : Afghanistan probably should have been split along ethnic and sectarian lines, creating either seperate countries or autonomous zones, like how we created an autonomous zone for the Kurds in Iraq. Because the Taleban gets the lion share of its soldiers and support from Pashtuns. Sun Tzu said something along these lines: the rebel is the fish and civilians are the sea. The rebel can not survive without a sympathetic civilian population. While there were Pashtuns who fought against the Taleban, and warlords switched sides , for the most part the Northern Alliance were non-Pashtun and the Taleban are Pashtun. Back in the late 90s or early 2000s, Janes Defense Weekly carried an article on the Taleban and their harsh rule. In the article , Muslim intellegensia claimed the Taleban weren't about Islam, it was pre-Islamic tribalism masquerading as Islam.

I used to live in Arabia, a long time ago; there is a famous saying: me against my brother, me and my brother against my cousin, me and my cousin against the world. Afghanistan isn't Arabia, but the sentiment holds.

Maybe we should have just aided the Northern Alliance to conquer territory and defeat AQ and the Taleban on the battlefield, and not attempted to occupy and create a functioning democratic government. The US has no problem winning wars when the combatants are identifiable, the problem starts when combatants dress like civilians and melt into the civilian populace, because our rules of engagement, respect for human rights, the Geneva Convention and humanistic society won't allow for the kind of war the Chinese would engage in to defeat such an enemy.

 

[wonderbread]

When it came to the withdrawl Biden put the cart in front of the horse.

I mentioned this last year , or it may have been the earlier : Afghanistan probably should have been split along ethnic and sectarian lines, creating either seperate countries or autonomous zones, like how we created an autonomous zone for the Kurds in Iraq. Because the Taleban gets the lion share of its soldiers and support from Pashtuns. Sun Tzu said something along these lines: the rebel is the fish and civilians are the sea. The rebel can not survive without a sympathetic civilian population. While there were Pashtuns who fought against the Taleban, and warlords switched sides , for the most part the Northern Alliance were non-Pashtun and the Taleban are Pashtun. Back in the late 90s or early 2000s, Janes Defense Weekly carried an article on the Taleban and their harsh rule. In the article , Muslim intellegensia claimed the Taleban weren't about Islam, it was pre-Islamic tribalism masquerading as Islam.

I used to live in Arabia, a long time ago; there is a famous saying: me against my brother, me and my brother against my cousin, me and my cousin against the world. Afghanistan isn't Arabia, but the sentiment holds.

Maybe we should have just aided the Northern Alliance to conquer territory and defeat AQ and the Taleban on the battlefield, and not attempted to occupy and create a functioning democratic government. The US has no problem winning wars when the combatants are identifiable, the problem starts when combatants dress like civilians and melt into the civilian populace, because our rules of engagement, respect for human rights, the Geneva Convention and humanistic society won't allow for the kind of war the Chinese would engage in to defeat such an enemy.

The US put too much faith in a army with superior numbers and firepower falling to a force believed to be less than a third of its size...BUT, the US Gov knew more than it was willing to admit regarding it's ultimate failure in this region. If they're smart, they'll continue to exit. The collateral damage is unfortunate.

 

[Bob Gray]

Common sense doesn't work in politics and our Gov 3/4 of the time. I worked for the State Dept for 11 years and spent time in the middle east. There's a lot of arm-chair experts here. The US has had a shitty track record for training foreign militaries...THEN we have the huge differences in political and social conditions in Afghanistan HUGE....all that’s even before you get to the challenges of training soldiers, many of whom are illiterate-- and THEN add in the ethnic, religious, and tribal issues. So in the end we really blew almost 100 billion there JUST trying to get the Afghan army to function even at a minimal level. The biggest mistake of this whole debacle was going into Afghanistan to begin with. Greed really is what runs this country and after over a decade of trying to train their military blowing billions? Time to cut em loose and fend for themselves.

What does any of this have to with announcing your withdrawal date and pulling the military out first instead of last?

Again, Biden almost literally handed a billion dollars worth of military equipment to a terrorist group. This was easily preventable. He could have waited two months and probably avoided any hostility whatsoever, at least for a time.

You're pointing out issues as to why democracy didn't stick in the country. Ok, those are valid, but they aren't really applicable to this situation and why Biden bungled it so badly. Also, just as important, how easily this level of fuck up could have been avoided.