Social Trump to void birthright citizenship (part of the 14th amendment)

[BKMMAFAN]

You said it applied to children of alien residents. Tourists aren't residents.

It applies to all children born here outside of those of diplomats, other leaders of state/gov't officials, and enemies. The language of 'resident' was used in Wong Kim Ark because that was the specific fact of the case before them. However, if you read the cases, or a synopsis, of the other two I cited (Plyler v Doe, Calvin's Case), it is clear that any child born on US soil is a natural citizen of this country.

If you're actually interested in how this developed legally, in English Common law, read the Yale Journal article I linked above.

https://digitalcommons.law.yale.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1170&context=yjlh

 

[Cubo de Sangre]

It applies to all children born here outside of those of diplomats, other leaders of state/gov't officials, and enemies. The language of 'resident' was used in Wong Kim Ark because that was the specific fact of the case before them. However, if you read the cases, or a synopsis, of the other two I cited (Plyler v Doe, Calvin's Case), it is clear that any child born on US soil is a natural citizen of this country.

If you're actually interested in how this developed legally, in English Common law, read the Yale Journal article I linked above.

https://digitalcommons.law.yale.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1170&context=yjlh

Thanks. I've no interest in researching this topic. My concern is in following the Constitution, a document that's supposed to be easily understood by us all. The summary you posted I found unclear. After looking at the text of the Amendment it seems cut & dried if you're born here you're in (foreigner powers and invaders not withstanding).

 

[tonni]

Congrats on the av. Not enough knob or grease but it’s a start!

 

[MicroBrew]

It's definitely abused by some, but I don't at all believe that comes close to out weighing the need for it and the fundamental principal our country has been running on for so long

Do not agree. Find a different way to go after birther tourism if it's such a big deal.

It was a law created to free the slaves. As that need has long since passed, why keep it ?

 

[Trotsky]

It was a law created to free the slaves. As that need has long since passed, why keep it ?

If you're talking about birthright citizenship, then no, you're wrong. It wasn't just "created to free the slaves." It was made law across the Western hemisphere to attract immigrants, sustain commerce, and administrate and adjudicate property rights during an area where there was a whole lot of movement to and around the continents.

 

[MicroBrew]

If you're talking about birthright citizenship, then no, you're wrong. It wasn't just "created to free the slaves." It was made law across the Western hemisphere to attract immigrants, sustain commerce, and administrate and adjudicate property rights during an area where there was a whole lot of movement to and around the continents.

The main reason for the birthright part of the amendment was affording freedom to slaves.

Passed by Congress June 13, 1866, and ratified July 9, 1868, the 14th amendment extended liberties and rights granted by the Bill of Rights to former slaves.

​

Following the Civil War, Congress submitted to the states three amendments as part of its Reconstruction program to guarantee equal civil and legal rights to black citizens. The major provision of the 14th amendment was to grant citizenship to “All persons born or naturalized in the United States,” thereby granting citizenship to former slaves/

https://www.ourdocuments.gov/doc.php?flash=true&doc=43


The Civil War ended on May 9, 1865. Just more than three years later, on July 9, 1868, the 14th Amendment to the U.S. Constitution was passed. This amendment and the 13th and 15th amendments were a part of the Reconstruction Era of the United States, which focused on civil rights and rebuilding the war-torn nation. The 14th Amendment states that every person born or naturalized in America is a citizen of the country as well as their state of residence.

Some southern states began actively passing laws that restricted the rights of former slaves after the Civil War, and Congress responded with the 14th Amendment, designed to place limits on states' power as well as protect civil rights.

https://employment.law.tulane.edu/articles/history-of-law-the-fourteenth-amendment

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It's not a coincidence is it that the 14th amendment, and specifically the birthright law , came into being shortly after the Civil War ended and Southern States trying to disenfranchise former Slaves.

 

[Trotsky]

The main reason for the birthright part of the amendment was affording freedom to slaves.

Passed by Congress June 13, 1866, and ratified July 9, 1868, the 14th amendment extended liberties and rights granted by the Bill of Rights to former slaves.

​

Following the Civil War, Congress submitted to the states three amendments as part of its Reconstruction program to guarantee equal civil and legal rights to black citizens. The major provision of the 14th amendment was to grant citizenship to “All persons born or naturalized in the United States,” thereby granting citizenship to former slaves/

https://www.ourdocuments.gov/doc.php?flash=true&doc=43


The Civil War ended on May 9, 1865. Just more than three years later, on July 9, 1868, the 14th Amendment to the U.S. Constitution was passed. This amendment and the 13th and 15th amendments were a part of the Reconstruction Era of the United States, which focused on civil rights and rebuilding the war-torn nation. The 14th Amendment states that every person born or naturalized in America is a citizen of the country as well as their state of residence.

Some southern states began actively passing laws that restricted the rights of former slaves after the Civil War, and Congress responded with the 14th Amendment, designed to place limits on states' power as well as protect civil rights.

https://employment.law.tulane.edu/articles/history-of-law-the-fourteenth-amendment

--
It's not a coincidence is it that the 14th amendment, and specifically the birthright law , came into being shortly after the Civil War ended and Southern States trying to disenfranchise former Slaves.

Yes, that was a part of it, but you're forgetting that the Civil War was fought in the shadow of the impending westward expansion (the North not wanting the South to export slave labor and monopolize wealth from development). Birthright citizenship was integral to developing the western territories, just as it was to "civilizing" the Spanish colonies to the south. There's a reason nearly every American country has birthright citizenship yet very few in the Eastern hemisphere do.

 

[MicroBrew]

Yes, that was a part of it, but you're forgetting that the Civil War was fought in the shadow of the impending westward expansion (the North not wanting the South to export slave labor and monopolize wealth from development). Birthright citizenship was integral to developing the western territories, just as it was to "civilizing" the Spanish colonies to the south. There's a reason nearly every American country has birthright citizenship yet very few in the Eastern hemisphere do.

The main reason for the C.W. was slavery. The US had already expanded West, prior to the Civil War.

 

[7437]

Just deny citizenship to foreigners who are obvious birth tourists. Wouldn't be hard to look at their visas, country of residency and citizenship status and make a judgement.

feel like the constitution has something to say about who gets citizenship. Is it people whose parents are residents?

I feel like its not that.

 

[IamStryker]

Right Wingers/Trump are gonna destroy the Constitution.

As if the constitution isn't under the attack by the Left. 1st amendment and 2nd amendment.

 

[MicroBrew]

feel like the constitution has something to say about who gets citizenship. Is it people whose parents are residents?

I feel like its not that.

The traditional view has been that anyone born on US soil is an American regardless of whether the parent/s are citizens or permanent residents. This has been exploited by tens of thousands of pregnant foreigners who come here to give birth. These folks then return home with their American citizen baby. At 18 these kids have the same access to financial aid, scholarships, college admittance preference and various social programs intended for American citizens. Despite the fact their families never contributed taxes. It's nothing but a ripoff of Americans, which hurts the working and middle class the most.

 

[Denter]

As if the constitution isn't under the attack by the Left. 1st amendment and 2nd amendment.

People don't care about process, only results.

 

[James Bomb]

The traditional view has been that anyone born on US soil is an American regardless of whether the parent/s are citizens or permanent residents. This has been exploited by tens of thousands of pregnant foreigners who come here to give birth. These folks then return home with their American citizen baby. At 18 these kids have the same access to financial aid, scholarships, college admittance preference and various social programs intended for American citizens. Despite the fact their families never contributed taxes. It's nothing but a ripoff of Americans, which hurts the working and middle class the most.

Birth Tourism is really a much smaller issue, mostly ginned up by news articles.I don't really see how rich foreign mothers are going to need these supposed benefits, especially since Republicans are constantly working hard to cut any social program.

GOP legistlators don't seem to have a problem with rich people though. They always seem to get naturalization anyways.

 

[MicroBrew]

Birth Tourism is really a much smaller issue, mostly ginned up by news articles.I don't really see how rich foreign mothers are going to need these supposed benefits, especially since Republicans are constantly working hard to cut any social program.

GOP legistlators don't seem to have a problem with rich people though. They always seem to get naturalization anyways.

Affluent people do make use of government freebies. Even middleclass people get Financial Aid.
10 of thousands is a considerable number of people exploiting the system. I don't have a problem with the poor Central American mothers coming here and having kids, it's the relatively well off foreigners from overseas that I have an issue with.

 

[freakroor]

USA is better off harboring the children of chinese millionaires than we are with the offspring of florida tweakers.

we should just have some sort of citizenship test for all babies born here, regardless of the immigration status of their shithead parents.

 

[James Bomb]

Affluent people do make use of government freebies. Even middleclass people get Financial Aid.
10 of thousands is a considerable number of people exploiting the system. I don't have a problem with the poor Central American mothers coming here and having kids, it's the relatively well off foreigners from overseas that I have an issue with.

Do you have any data on birthright tourism? From what I've read, there is nothing to suggest that it's a real problem outside of a few cases that are covered under current laws.

I don't see where benefits would be any sort of issue outside of some flexibility that can be gained from having dual nationality.

 

[Headkicktoleg]

It's almost like the view modern-day "conservatives" have on executive power is influenced by who happens to be sitting in the Oval Office.

I see nobody in this thread supporting doing something against the Constitution. Every thread about the 2nd amendment I see people who want to get rid of guns despite the 2nd amendment.

 

[ShadowRun]

Congrats on the av. Not enough knob or grease but it’s a start!

 

[Demoslasher]

It's interesting that suddenly republicans are perfectly fine with a president acting as if he has unlimited power as he flagrantly abuses the executive order system...again

So much for small, limited government. He is talking about changing the constitution without even a vote in congress...sorry but if you think that is anything but serious executive overreaching, you probably eat crayons...

 

[Willy Womack]

I think we have enough people in the US. Automation will kill more jobs too. This is good for any US citizen.