Why do people trash Ngannou's striking?

[johnmangala]

Having bad technique doesn't always mean you're going to get found out and exposed, depends how frequently you rely on it for that hole to be seen and exposed..
Ngannou's fights are sooo quick, there's very little to go off on what his approach might be and what pace will be set... Even his shots that are poorly set up or show bad technique are fast and explosive, which is more than just being effective, it's a legit threat regardless of how technically superior you might be..

This shit is also effective, but in a completely different way.

Elias wasnt a bad striker either. He has a pretty decent record. Underrated guy.

 

[FIghtxIQ]

This isnt boxing or kickboxing. Technicality rules the day in those sports but not as much in MMA. Its effectiveness is what counts more. Shit there are plenty of examples of super skilled strikers being KOd by grapplers. We have seen countless examples of more technical/skilled strikers getting beaten by 'lesser strikers' in MMA.

The fundamentals of boxing and kickboxing are different to MMA. The gloves, grappling, and cage change everything. Hes obviously not the best striker but hes definitely not bad.

He has good physical attributes and he uses it to his advantage, that is a skill in and of itself yet he gets no credit.There are plenty of fighters that fail at utilizing their attributes better- like Struve and distance management. Hell look at Jones who is universally considered one of the smartest fighters but imagine him with a Hearns like jab.

Now the obvious reply I'm expecting is that sloppy shit he finished Rozenstruik with. I agree it is terrible technique and he only got away with it because hes effective. But its point in case: Effectiveness > skill in MMA due to those small gloves, cage, and grappling especially at HW.

He doesnr have to be in there looking like Cro Cop or Adesanya to do what does. Hes not a shit striker, hes effective and that's what matters.

It's more so that people don't understand the differences in those specialized sports compared to application in mma. Plus they don't account for height/range/reach/movement in techniques. They want the moves to look like the way they look when you practice on pads. That only works if people just stand still and aren't throwing back or throwing in the specific way you practiced your combo. Plus the ranges/distance/levels are all different in mma because of the takedowns, so all striking moves have to be adjusted for that fact. "Textbook" techniques are the strikes wrestlers duck under because they operate at a range that is used strictly by other strikers because there is no other range to worry about in their specialized sport/martial art. So their techniques reflect that, and in mixed martiall arts it becomes a weakness to exploit.. Yes effectiveness > over everything else is what really matters. If you don't adjust for the smaller gloves, grappling/clinch/takedowns, footwork/movements, with your striking than it's going to have holes in it in mma. Many examples in the past of decorated striking specialists from other combat sports having a hard time vs high level mma strikers.

 

[Jose Beehive]

Elias wasnt a bad striker either. He has a pretty decent record. Underrated guy.

I agree, but you look at that GIF and like with Francis can jump to a wrong conclusion that they lack technique and have shit striking.

 

[johnmangala]

I agree, but you look at that GIF and like with Francis can jump to a wrong conclusion that they lack technique and have shit striking.

My bad I misunderstood your point.

Hes actually got decent technique too when hes patient, I mean anyone can look sloppy when they bum rush.

 

[christopher]

why do people act like swinging wildly can't be considered good technique? It's the power and force that he generates that makes him a technical powerful fighter... his accuracy is not as high so people considered him less technical, but the torque, and ability to generate massive force with a punch starts from the legs and moves up the body, obviously he has powerful technique to generate the type of concussive KO force that he is capable of, how people think that wouldn't fly in any other weight class then HW boggles my mind, there are plenty of strikers who are in lower weight classes that are extremely effective fighters with similar technique. Precision and accuracy are only a piece to the boxing skillset ability, torque, power, speed those matter just as much... it all creates a balance, and the one truth that can be said is Ngannou possesses something very few fighters have even if it appears that he just swings wildly like a babboon.. if it were that easy more people would be good at it.

 

[Jose Beehive]

My bad I misunderstood your point.

Hes actually good decent technique too when hes patient, I mean anyone can look sloppy when they bum rush.

Lol, to be fair, I didn't make my point(s) very well.

It's true, and wild fast paced punches can often end a fight with shit technique, i've seen it happen countless times, very nice 1 - 2 set up and then AH hurt him SWANG like a lunatic who never learnt shit from a coach.

 

[johnmangala]

It's more so that people don't understand the differences in those specialized sports compared to application in mma. Plus they don't account for height/range/reach/movement in techniques. They want the moves to look like the way they look when you practice on pads. That only works if people just stand still and aren't throwing back or throwing in the specific way you practiced your combo. Plus the ranges/distance/levels are all different in mma because of the takedowns, so all striking moves have to be adjusted for that fact. "Textbook" techniques are the strikes wrestlers duck under because they operate at a range that is used strictly by other strikers because there is no other range to worry about in their specialized sport/martial art. So their techniques reflect that, and in mixed martiall arts it becomes a weakness to exploit.. Yes effectiveness > over everything else is what really matters. If you don't adjust for the smaller gloves, grappling/clinch/takedowns, footwork/movements, with your striking than it's going to have holes in it in mma. Many examples in the past of decorated striking specialists from other combat sports having a hard time vs high level mma strikers.

Good post. It's even true to lesser extent in grappling. Hernandez subbing Vieira shocked everyone, but that's the point in MMA, like grappling can open up striking- Striking can open up grappling.

 

[EXOICHO]

Because good striking technique works even if you don't have an insane power advantage

If Francis wasn't insanely powerful, he would literally never win a single fight. His power is a crutch that he leans on, and clearly doesn't utilize good fundamentals when he fights.

 

[johnmangala]

Because good striking technique works even if you don't have an insane power advantage

If Francis wasn't insanely powerful, he would literally never win a single fight. His power is a crutch that he leans on, and clearly doesn't utilize good fundamentals when he fights.

I guess Adesanya wouldnt be good without his reaction time or flexibility either?

He uses those attributes well that's the point. There are plenty of fighters who have great attributes but suck at using them.

 

[SHAZAM]

It's MMA. Not boxing. Not kick Boxing. Those have proven to be worthless in MMA. Which do you think is better for real combat? The one that allows nearly everything or the art with very limited tools like boxing? MMA striking is different, from stances to gloves to threat of TDs. If you're training boxing for self defense or real combat I would almost say you're wasting your time. Same with super advanced worthless wrestling techniques that are just to score points. But overall, Ngannou's hands are perfect and boxing and skills are overrated. The fuck you want skills for if no power? No cardio? No heart. No chin. Typical fans with no balls just wanna act smarter than they really are and then shit on fighters with balls that come to fight because they themselves fantasize about training in a TMA dojo and sharpening their skillet to overcome real alphas like me.

Yeah, skills are overrated. Mind is more important.

 

[kibz]

Technical striking or not, he has a good eye for openings. And if you get caught (even if not clean) he has the power to put you out with 1 punch. But if you have a granite chin and can withstand the storm like Stipe did, he’s in trouble. Lucky for him, not too many people are Stipe.

But I don’t know if Stipe or Ngannou for that matter can take the same shots that they put on each other again. I wouldn’t be surprised if either one of them KOd the other in a rematch. I also wouldn’t be surprised if Derick Lewis KOd either one if he faced Stipe or rematched Ngannou. The 3 of them have ridiculous power.

 

[achoo42]

People think everything has to look good according to how a coach would rate your technique without understanding in mma if you're effective you are effective.

Sorry, but this is a poor argument.

Technique isn't effectiveness. Technique is efficiency.

You can be effective with bad technique, and you can be effective with good technique, but good technique will always be more efficient and allow you to conserve your energy.

The strongest guy in the world could probably break someone's arm with brute strength, but if he knew some BJJ he'd be breaking arms almost effortlessly. That's the difference.

Look at how poor Askren, Maia and Chiesa are at striking and how high they got. In mma it's a fight and you can be sloppy and succeed

Askren et. al didn't succeed in MMA by being sloppy. They succeeded in spite of being sloppy, and they aren't sloppy in the areas of the game that they specialize in.

Askren's takedowns are highly technical and not sloppy by anyone's standards. If he had sloppy takedowns as well as sloppy striking, he would be nowhere close to being elite.

But overall, Ngannou's hands are perfect and boxing and skills are overrated...

Sure, Ngannou knocks out people in under a minute with sloppy technique. But what if he doesn't knock them out? We all know what happens—he gasses by the second round.

Perhaps conditioning is an issue but I guarantee that if he tightened up his striking he'd be able to fight effectively for a longer period of time. Similarly, if he didn't only use brute strength to get up from takedowns, he wouldn't be so tired every time he attempts escapes.

Technique is always important. Name one GOAT in mixed martial arts, or any sport you want, that didn't have to master their techniques.

Mind is more important.

Some athletes will say "fighting is 90% mental", and in some ways this is correct, but these same exact athletes who say that will spend all day at the gym perfecting their techniques. Ali, Phelps, MJ, Federer—all the iconic athletes knew their techniques well.

So you tell me what's more important.

 

[achoo42]

Typical fans with no balls just wanna act smarter than they really are and then shit on fighters with balls that come to fight because they themselves fantasize about training in a TMA dojo and sharpening their skillet to overcome real alphas like me.

Anyone unironically calling themselves an alpha male goes straight into my cringey manchild list.

PED Henderson was on steroids. That win don't count. And Fedor was a small LHW so don't count as a HW win either.

Yeah, you're a troll, right?

 

[KillerIsBack V2]

It's heavyweight mma. he get's away with shit that wouldn't fly in other divisions, because HW mma is trash

I don’t buy that.
I posted a thread saying Woodley’s striking is underrated because of its effectivness, people got triggered “no he’s a one trick pony only throws overhands”.
Meanwhile, there amwere several threads calling WB the GOAT of striking with majority of people agreeing with nonsense.. a man woodley knocked down in two matches, same punch that KO’d prime Lawler and changed him forever, outsruck Till as well who also knocked down and beat wb and now competing at MW.

I guessif you bounce around alot you get more recognition from the casual ignorant, which are the majority fandom.

examples, MVP was the hottest thing in bellator and gets figured out by Lima and KO’d, Lima doesnt get the same recognition. Pettis got to be on the wheaties box, and when RDA put a thai clinch seminar on him, didnt get have the recognition of the flashy TKD Showtime.
All these examples are prime fighters^

 

[Peli]

This isnt boxing or kickboxing. Technicality rules the day in those sports but not as much in MMA. Its effectiveness is what counts more. Shit there are plenty of examples of super skilled strikers being KOd by grapplers. We have seen countless examples of more technical/skilled strikers getting beaten by 'lesser strikers' in MMA.

The fundamentals of boxing and kickboxing are different to MMA. The gloves, grappling, and cage change everything. Hes obviously not the best striker but hes definitely not bad.

He has good physical attributes and he uses it to his advantage, that is a skill in and of itself yet he gets no credit.There are plenty of fighters that fail at utilizing their attributes better- like Struve and distance management. Hell look at Jones who is universally considered one of the smartest fighters but imagine him with a Hearns like jab.

Now the obvious reply I'm expecting is that sloppy shit he finished Rozenstruik with. I agree it is terrible technique and he only got away with it because hes effective. But its point in case: Effectiveness > skill in MMA due to those small gloves, cage, and grappling especially at HW.

He doesnr have to be in there looking like Cro Cop or Adesanya to do what does. Hes not a shit striker, hes effective and that's what matters.

because its trash. He makes it work, but doesn't mean it won't catch up to him. Caught him against Stipe. Probably will again.

If francis was a little cleaner and a patient fighter, I honestly don't see who could beat him with that power.

 

[achoo42]

because its trash. He makes it work, but doesn't mean it won't catch up to him. Caught him against Stipe. Probably will again.

If francis was a little cleaner and a patient fighter, I honestly don't see who could beat him with that power.

Right. This is what I'm not getting.

People are saying that Ngannou's technique doesn't matter. So they think that if he had elite level striking, he still would've lost to Stipe? That just doesn't make sense to me.

Put two heavyweights against each other with approximately equal technique, and the stronger/more powerful guy usually wins. It's pretty simple.

Ngannou currently is nowhere close to Stipe's level in striking skills, but if he somehow were, he would be king of the division. Guaranteed.

 

[Peli]

Right. This is what I'm not getting.

People are saying that Ngannou's technique doesn't matter. So they think that if he had elite level striking, he still would've lost to Stipe? That just doesn't make sense to me.

Put two heavyweights against each other with approximately equal technique, and the stronger/more powerful guy usually wins. It's pretty simple.

Ngannou currently is nowhere close to Stipe's level in striking skills, but if he somehow were, he would be king of the division. Guaranteed.

it's incredible how people oversell his striking just because of the power. I was thought I was crazy when I saw people saying he was a good striker. I wondered to myself what was I missing. It's funny how winning scopes the narrative. He's not really doing anything different than before the stipe and lewis loss. He just got his confidence back is all.

Do that winging shit he did against Jon, DC, or stipe again, they're shooting right under that and taking him down. lol.

 

[iDisagree]

 

[FutureBwChamp]

Because good striking technique works even if you don't have an insane power advantage

If Francis wasn't insanely powerful, he would literally never win a single fight. His power is a crutch that he leans on, and clearly doesn't utilize good fundamentals when he fights.

And is still cashing checks and beating more technical fighters see Rozenstruik

 

[jeff7b9]

View attachment 836564 Has arthletics and instincts are great but his skills are bummy as hell and he swings and misses wildly and has no plan B when he can't get a fast knockout. This is why Stipe smoked him and outsmarted him.

This pic says it all.

It does capture him in “bad form” ... but

This reminds me of the criticism Deontay Wilder gets for his “windmill punches”

If your opponent is not posing a threat because they are hurt, intimidated, backpedaling, etc... form doesn’t need to be pristine.

He has power and finds ways to land.
It generally doesn’t take him long and he hasn’t been hit much.

It isn’t figure skating. They aren’t being judged on the technical execution of movements.
Form and posture doesn’t matter when the other guy is sleeping.