Why do people trash Ngannou's striking?

[Portland8242]

Because people on the internet love to pretend they're experts.

 

[Peli]

Just because he loses doesn't make his previous accomplishments mean less. He just fought someone better. Fury is literally the best HW boxer in the world right now, no shame losing to him for Wilder. Doesnr make Wilder shit.

With that logic so many fighters can be discredited. And yeah you keep ignoring that it takes skill to do what he does. Like bisping said accuracy matters more than pure power. It's like a train on a train track, that train can only move as fast or far as the track allows. The track is the skill of accuracy, the train is his power. You can't say he only wins because hes powerful that cant be, otherwise NFL/NBA players could beat Stipe with 6 months training like that old meme. It certainly helps but without the skill to deliver that power its moot.

I guess its a semantics thing. We can agree he's an effective striker. Would I call him a good one? Eh, I wouldn't go that far, but we can agree on one thing. His power is effective.

Tony ferguson is another example of a guy I wouldn't call a great striker, but he makes it work for him. Would anyone make the argument that tony is an elite striker? Nah, elite fighter once upon a time, but he's pace and volume striker.

 

[ThaiSexPills]

How are people criticizing him bull rushing one of the biggest power punchers in HW, walking him down against the cage and unloading wild haymakers on him until he looks dead?

you’ve gotten too far from your just bleed roots. Big Frank has been in the cage like. 4 min in his last 5. How can you complain?
I hope he literally kills stipe. He’d be the most exciting champ ever. Just bleed baby

 

[KillerIsBack V2]

Word salad. Bounced around from subject to subject.

Nope, everything here is perfectly connecting different sub arguments supporting the same thesis statement.

if there’s something you don’t understand, I’d be happy to explain. But I hope you’re not just answering out of emotions like a triggered little girl.

 

[bjjwar]

I don't know but when a fighter looks totally uncoordinated to he point where he almost falls down when he throws a punch... He has his chin up, swings wildly punching the air with his chin all up. Put him vs a good fighter and that sh** wouldn't fly at all. But it's the HW division where untrained guys like Lewis are top 3-5...

 

[superpunch]

I guess its a semantics thing. We can agree he's an effective striker. Would I call him a good one? Eh, I wouldn't go that far, but we can agree on one thing. His power is effective.

Tony ferguson is another example of a guy I wouldn't call a great striker, but he makes it work for him. Would anyone make the argument that tony is an elite striker? Nah, elite fighter once upon a time, but he's pace and volume striker.

He knocks everyone out cold. Terrible striker.

 

[Nickzor]

Not the most sound technique but when you think about it he knocks dudes dead and has never been dropped himself, i think of it like in some sports there are all time great athletes that had unorthodox styles yet were still great at what they did

 

[Foxflechette57]

This isnt boxing or kickboxing. Technicality rules the day in those sports but not as much in MMA. Its effectiveness is what counts more. Shit there are plenty of examples of super skilled strikers being KOd by grapplers. We have seen countless examples of more technical/skilled strikers getting beaten by 'lesser strikers' in MMA.

The fundamentals of boxing and kickboxing are different to MMA. The gloves, grappling, and cage change everything. Hes obviously not the best striker but hes definitely not bad.

He has good physical attributes and he uses it to his advantage, that is a skill in and of itself yet he gets no credit.There are plenty of fighters that fail at utilizing their attributes better- like Struve and distance management. Hell look at Jones who is universally considered one of the smartest fighters but imagine him with a Hearns like jab.

Now the obvious reply I'm expecting is that sloppy shit he finished Rozenstruik with. I agree it is terrible technique and he only got away with it because hes effective. But its point in case: Effectiveness > skill in MMA due to those small gloves, cage, and grappling especially at HW.

He doesnr have to be in there looking like Cro Cop or Adesanya to do what does. Hes not a shit striker, hes effective and that's what matters.

100% agree

 

[Eater of Souls]

Sorry, but this is a poor argument.

Technique isn't effectiveness. Technique is efficiency.

You can be effective with bad technique, and you can be effective with good technique, but good technique will always be more efficient and allow you to conserve your energy.

The strongest guy in the world could probably break someone's arm with brute strength, but if he knew some BJJ he'd be breaking arms almost effortlessly. That's the difference.



Askren et. al didn't succeed in MMA by being sloppy. They succeeded in spite of being sloppy, and they aren't sloppy in the areas of the game that they specialize in.

Askren's takedowns are highly technical and not sloppy by anyone's standards. If he had sloppy takedowns as well as sloppy striking, he would be nowhere close to being elite.



Sure, Ngannou knocks out people in under a minute with sloppy technique. But what if he doesn't knock them out? We all know what happens—he gasses by the second round.

Perhaps conditioning is an issue but I guarantee that if he tightened up his striking he'd be able to fight effectively for a longer period of time. Similarly, if he didn't only use brute strength to get up from takedowns, he wouldn't be so tired every time he attempts escapes.

Technique is always important. Name one GOAT in mixed martial arts, or any sport you want, that didn't have to master their techniques.



Some athletes will say "fighting is 90% mental", and in some ways this is correct, but these same exact athletes who say that will spend all day at the gym perfecting their techniques. Ali, Phelps, MJ, Federer—all the iconic athletes knew their techniques well.

So you tell me what's more important.

Exactly. Everyone arguing against your points is essentially saying skill does not matter, which is just foolish. Imagine how much better - and scarier - someone like Francis would be with technical mastery?

 

[johnmangala]

I guess its a semantics thing. We can agree he's an effective striker. Would I call him a good one? Eh, I wouldn't go that far, but we can agree on one thing. His power is effective.

Tony ferguson is another example of a guy I wouldn't call a great striker, but he makes it work for him. Would anyone make the argument that tony is an elite striker? Nah, elite fighter once upon a time, but he's pace and volume striker.

I havent said Ngannou is an elite striker, neither is Tony. But they are good strikers.

It takes being a good striker to do what they did. To be that effective you must have a good understanding of MMA fundamentals, otherwise Hardy would've beaten Volkov on his attributes alone.

Ngannou isnt successful just because hes powerful- hes very athletic, has decent reaction time, decent accuracy, and good reads. Those skills/attributes are the train track that delivers the train (power).

 

[SerbBerserk]

I think he has good feints, accuracy, speed, and overall instincts while striking. Plus his power means you have to keep that in mind and fight differently. Hes not the most technical, but with MMA gloves that matters less anyway because they do more damage and are harder to block then in kickboxing/boxing.

 

[thorcorm]

Ngannou is a lot like Cody Garbrandt; they both have a tendency to swing wild and do stupid shit, but when they're composed and being patient they're among the best technical strikers in their divisions. Problem is they both swing wild a bit too often and those sequences are the ones that most of us remember.

Best post in here.

Ngannou is extremely technically capable and knows where he is good, and hasn't lost the aggressive side when it is needed.

Kinda like when a big man in basketball gets better at outside shooting, then falls in love with it too much and loses a large part of what made him good in the first place.

Ngannou is great with feints, great with range, angles and great hand speed. He is an exceptional athlete. World class in that regard. People can keep talking shit, but those shots on Cain and Overeem are world class precision and technique. Especially the Overeem one. The feints that went into that, the angle of the shot, how he caught him leaning, how composed he stayed at that time... All top notch.

Look how he dismantled Blaydes in their first fight too. Rarely gets talked about.

 

[Peli]

I havent said Ngannou is an elite striker, neither is Tony. But they are good strikers.

It takes being a good striker to do what they did. To be that effective you must have a good understanding of MMA fundamentals, otherwise Hardy would've beaten Volkov on his attributes alone.

Ngannou isnt successful just because hes powerful- hes very athletic, has decent reaction time, decent accuracy, and good reads. Those skills/attributes are the train track that delivers the train (power).

I guess its semantics then. We both agree he's effective. I just wouldn't go ahead and say that he's good. we have different criteria when it comes to good. Nothing wrong with that.

But the bottom line we agree he's effective.

 

[Zanderlini]

I think the only problem with Francis is his lack of experience in later rounds. This dude might as well have fought 5 random dudes at a club in the last 5 fights because he ran through everybody in seconds, if he fails to do that to Stipe I don't see him staying composed in rounds 3 to 5 to score a KO.

 

[Bend NvR Break]

It's not technical but it's effective

 

[johnmangala]

I guess its semantics then. We both agree he's effective. I just wouldn't go ahead and say that he's good. we have different criteria when it comes to good. Nothing wrong with that.

But the bottom line we agree he's effective.

Who’s an example of a good striker to you?

 

[TheMMAnalyst]

This isnt boxing or kickboxing. Technicality rules the day in those sports but not as much in MMA. Its effectiveness is what counts more. Shit there are plenty of examples of super skilled strikers being KOd by grapplers. We have seen countless examples of more technical/skilled strikers getting beaten by 'lesser strikers' in MMA.

The fundamentals of boxing and kickboxing are different to MMA. The gloves, grappling, and cage change everything. Hes obviously not the best striker but hes definitely not bad.

He has good physical attributes and he uses it to his advantage, that is a skill in and of itself yet he gets no credit.There are plenty of fighters that fail at utilizing their attributes better- like Struve and distance management. Hell look at Jones who is universally considered one of the smartest fighters but imagine him with a Hearns like jab.

Now the obvious reply I'm expecting is that sloppy shit he finished Rozenstruik with. I agree it is terrible technique and he only got away with it because hes effective. But its point in case: Effectiveness > skill in MMA due to those small gloves, cage, and grappling especially at HW.

He doesnr have to be in there looking like Cro Cop or Adesanya to do what does. Hes not a shit striker, hes effective and that's what matters.

I think the unique thing to note is this is HW, where freaks rule the day by their ability to absorb and dish out punishment on scales that make any other division pale in comparison.

His striking is not really technical, but it really shouldn't be based on what his MMA game is - it's all based on sheer overwhelming force that if you can't stifle with high-level wrestling and some decent technical footwork/slips you will get blitzed by and murdered.

Stipe is literally the only HW that poses him any threat, since almost no HW's have that basic combination (not a lot of high-level wrestlers at HW, basically it was DC/Blaydes and they both have pretty poor boxing defense that they paper over with offense and pressure). Got him at the right time when he was on the come-up and blew his wad in 2 minutes going like a maniac. Rematch should be fascinating to see if he can make an adjustment, but it seems like he can't help himself in every fight.

 

[cheesus]

I think he can be more technical than people give him credit for but he has his moments where he just fights wild and with total abandonment, his confidence in getting the knock out will be his detriment.

 

[johnmangala]

What was I saying?

 

[Ezekiel 25:17]

This isnt boxing or kickboxing. Technicality rules the day in those sports but not as much in MMA. Its effectiveness is what counts more. Shit there are plenty of examples of super skilled strikers being KOd by grapplers. We have seen countless examples of more technical/skilled strikers getting beaten by 'lesser strikers' in MMA.

The fundamentals of boxing and kickboxing are different to MMA. The gloves, grappling, and cage change everything. Hes obviously not the best striker but hes definitely not bad.

He has good physical attributes and he uses it to his advantage, that is a skill in and of itself yet he gets no credit.There are plenty of fighters that fail at utilizing their attributes better- like Struve and distance management. Hell look at Jones who is universally considered one of the smartest fighters but imagine him with a Hearns like jab.

Now the obvious reply I'm expecting is that sloppy shit he finished Rozenstruik with. I agree it is terrible technique and he only got away with it because hes effective. But its point in case: Effectiveness > skill in MMA due to those small gloves, cage, and grappling especially at HW.

He doesnr have to be in there looking like Cro Cop or Adesanya to do what does. Hes not a shit striker, hes effective and that's what matters.

Who's bashing it? Stick em in the octagon with him for 5 mins and see if they bash it afterwards.